| Author |
Message |
henrydraper (146.129.147.36)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 11:31 am: | |
Hi folks,
First, I don't want this this post to start a bitch session. So please, I already know prices are high--my question is why?
I was driving to work (in Seattle)this morning and noticed that diesel cost the same as premium ($2.08/gal.).
I'm 52, when I was first starting to drive (a while ago, I know) my recollection was that diesel cost significantly less than regular gas. My understanding was that was because it was easier to make and was a less refined product.
So what's happened since? Is my understanding incorrect or, outdated?
Again, without bitching, can anywone tell me why diesel costs the same as premium unleaded?
Inquiring minds want to know!
Thanks,
Henry Draper
'64 Eagle
Edmonds, WA |
RJ Long (Rjlong) (24.127.74.29)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 11:37 am: | |
In Californication, depending on where you fuel, diesel is anywhere from $0.10 - $0.50 per gallon less than regular. . . There used to be an even bigger gap, 'til the politicians decided to get involved. |
Earl-8-Ky (207.162.163.19)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 11:54 am: | |
Diesel fuel was at one time more or less a by product of gas. There was not a big demand for it and it was not taxed very high. I used to drive a truck back in the 60's. I can remember one time stopping in Elpaso,Tx.to fill up. They was having a price war on fuel.I bought 110 gal of diesel for 11$ 10 cents a gallon. |
Phil (204.89.170.126)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 1:06 pm: | |
Highway taxes!!! That is why the price varies from State to State. Red dyed fuel (heating oil) is much cheaper reflecting the lack of taxes. |
Mike Stabler (Docdezl) (64.255.109.209)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 6:57 pm: | |
I have a nice 400gal. tank and a 12 acre "hobby" farm. The co-op drops off my fuel. I always use 1 gal. of used engine oil per 10 gal. of fuel in all my diesel. I never go to the "farm" show. I don't have to stop at a scale. I never go over 55 mph. My fuel is BLACK,what tax rate is that??????? Its just what I do. Which could explain......
smoke,rattle&,stink.......docdezl |
Luke Bonagura (Lukeatuscoach) (12.90.5.7)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 9:23 pm: | |
Hi Henry:
I am going to jump into this, not as a fuel expert, but as an avid reader.
I saw your post on another Board and shied away because the some answers were from the "Gut" and not based upon fact, in my opinion.
The answers here, so far have been reasonable and so I will offer you my thoughts on the fuel cost situation, and I am sure there is some profiteering going on, but it has nothing to do with Government. At least not in the USA.
Early in this the last century (1900's) Standard Oil Co. controlled the oil industry. They drilled for it, they refined it and they sold it.
The U.S. government broke up that monopoly and the oil industry has been adjusting since.
Subsequent to the decision, there were still companies that took the oil from the ground to the pump. All of that has changed in the last few years, as oil companies decided where they best fit into the market place. (Now, whether you like it or not, these are companies with investors, that expect a return on their investment, and have to make a profit for their investors). That is the way a capitalistic society works.)
Some wanted to be explorers & bulk sellers on the open market. Others wanted to buy their oil on the open market and just pump it into our vehicle.
In my reading, I recently saw oil approaching $40.00US per barrel. Tonight on my ATT@T News there is an article that states the following:
"U.S. light crude fell .69 per barrel to $27.97 a barrel after a $1.75 jump on Monday. London Brent crude droped $1.28 a barrel to $24.81."
Now what does that mean??? I will tell you, and again from my reading that on Monday AM there were reports of American deaths & captures in Iraq, so the oil market rose and today there are reports that the American & Coalition forces are close to Bagdad, so the price of oil dropped.
The oil market is an Auction and unfortunately we the consumer are subject to the whims of the market.
Here in N.J. I saw the price of #1 diesel go as high as $1.88.9 per gal last week and this AM it was $1.71.9 per gal. Now in addition to the State Tax factor, is what refineries are able to produce. Here in the East, the same production for Home Heating Oil is that which is used to produce Diesel, so the story we here is that the refinery has switched from Diesel to Home Heating oil and therefore Diesel is more expensive and then the reverse. I just read this weekend that there has not been a NEW refinery built in the U.S. in 30 years???
We have a lot of power in our pocket and that is our Dollar. Don't run to the store for 1 item, try car pooling to work or to take the kids to their activities. I know this COLD winter I was going out and warming up my vehicle before I left work, and I decided not to, in order to conserve. I just dressed with more layers.
Since we are trapped in a "Supply and Demand" situation, if all of us, in our own way, try to make a difference in our fuel utilization, then there should be a bunch of reasonably priced Diesel around for our "Coaches".
We have plenty of available oil in the ground, off the West Coast, in the Gulf of Mexico and in Alaska. The public does not want to take the risk of accidents and therefore it is not being extracted, but it is the same public that wants "Cheap Fuel"!!!!!1
The answer, in my humble opinion, CONSERVE. We just went through it here in N.J. with water and the people made a difference because it is getting better. We are using less. And I lived through the mid 70's when fuel was rationed and you could only buy fuel on odd & even days based upon your license plate number, and so do many of you reading this. We take so much for granted, and maybe this is just the time to step back and take a good close look at who we are, how we use non-renewable resources, and why we are so disliked by millions around the world???
Thanks for listening, and please keep in your thoughts and/or prayers the many who are serving overseas, who are protecting our Freedom so that we may "complain about fuel prices".
LUKE at US COACH |
bobm (152.163.188.227)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 9:56 pm: | |
If you will recall the man who is our president, you know the man who won by the state where his brother did the vote counting, well he is a texan and is in debt to those oil and gas men and having diesel and gas jump fifty cents a gallon goes a long way toward paying that debt. I get nervous when what is in my 4104's tanks is worth more than whats wrapped around them. |
R.C.Bishop (128.123.221.224)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 10:06 pm: | |
Good post, Luke...and thought provoking.
Thanx for taking the time to express your thoughts. I for one agree with your premise.
I've always heard that prayer changes things. The entire world needs to be on it's knees just now, me thinks.
RCB |
Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (64.114.232.235)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 10:36 pm: | |
Henry, when I was curious about the high cost of diesel fuel in Washington state about thirty years ago compared to other states, I found that there was a distinct bias in favor of gasoline by the politicians and the driving public.
I haven't seen any change in that bias in the ensuing years and I never found it's source. I any event, the diesel taxes seem to be higher than gasoline taxes and have been for quite a while.
One other thing is affecting the cost of diesel that I know of. Diesel for highway use now is certified as to sulfur content, and the level of certification has a bearing on the cost of the fuel.
Sulfur content has a bearing on pollution and is regulated by EPA and other regulatory bodies. The level is different for different areas of the country.
For what it's worth.
Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
Suncatcher |
OAE Palmer (216.39.186.69)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 1:40 am: | |
Hey Luke....
Nice piece of work, thanks for so clearly stating your thoughts and feelings, I for one appreciate not only your effort, but your "spine" as well.
In this day of true informational overload I have found myself reading far to many missives and rants from those who think that-
because they can formulate an opinion & comunicate it, it is a valid opinion.
Yours was one of those which offset the many "I can, therefore it is" babbelings.
What we are doing in a far away desert is making sure that ELF Petroleum never has the ability to carry out the contracts they have signed with the present regime and that the US has 1st dibs on them when the new "gubbermint" is installed.
We have gone to war for United Fruit several times in the last century, going to war for AARAMCO, BP/Chevron & ARCO/Texaco is part and partial of of "business as usual".
My focus remains on those who are serving this country and their families back here, neither of whom know the real reasons they are knee deep in sand, and who deserve ALL of our support and prayers.
We used to play a game ...find ANYTHING or DO anything that the oil companies haven't profited on at least twice before you find it or do it..
You can't wipe you butt or even cut firewood w/o them making a buck on your wants or needs.
We are ALL addicted to OIL, & being addicted makes your DEPENDANT on people that you wouldn't let your daughters date...same as dope.
Ain't we free...... |
FAST FRED (209.26.115.56)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 6:10 am: | |
"If you will recall the man who is our president, you know the man who won by the state where his brother did the vote counting, well he is a texan and is in debt to those oil and gas men and having diesel and gas jump fifty cents a gallon goes a long way toward paying that debt"
I sort of remember that the Suprime Court said that endless vote counts of only selected areas , with NO standareds for what a vote actulally is,had to end.
Some were attempting to ckaim that if ALL the candidated but one was selected that the UNPUNCHED candidate would get the vote!
Totally ABSURED.
The "oil men" will be going back to their usual problem , overcapacity , when this Irac clean out finishes.
Since only 10% of the #2 world producer came on line (Sanctions limited the countrys take to $30 Billion a year , for castles & palaces) after the first excursion , there will be loads more oil shortly.
Yes, it will be about 2 or 3 years while the infrastructure gets rebuilt (hopefully not by the FRENCH) but the oil price is already down 1/3 from about $36 a BBL to $25 today.
When the price gets below about $18 or so it becomes impossable to produce oil in the USA , so we import even more.
Buck a gallon diesel will be back!!
Just a wait of a year or so.
AT very low prices the 'Bush oil buddies" only hang on as middlemen , not as oil producers.
FAR less Profitable , so this action will hurt not help the US oil patch, and the folks that work them. .
FAST FRED |
Doug Dickinson (Dougd470) (65.161.188.11)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 10:03 am: | |
Lots of thought prevoking issues here.
In Missouri, I have to say that the price of diesel is strongly driven by the supply/demand issue as well as what the oil companies can get for their product considering the situation. Diesel usually runs about 9 cents less than regular gas around here in the summer. In the winter, it is somewhere around the same and even higher. During the recent price situation, the price went a dime higher than regular. That is how it has been for the 3 years I have been here. Let's also remember that (in very round numbers) crude is about half the cost of a gallon of fuel, so if crude rises by 50%, then the cost of fuel should rise by 25%, right?
I live around St Louis, which requires one of the better formulations of fuel. If I go 2 counties to the west, I am out of the "Gateway Clean Air Area" and diesel and gas prices drop anywhere from a nickle to a dime a gallon. Abnother factor is that a LOT of folks from Illinois will come over the line to fuel up in MO since the prices are lower here.
If you want to see how closely the price is impacted by taxes from state to state, check one of the web sites that shows how gas and diesel are treated tax-wise, then look at one of the daily updated gas/fuel web sitres that show the current selling priice in an area. You will see what happens. It tracks fairly closely.
As for politics ...
my .02
Doug
St Louis MC9 |
Mrbus (152.163.188.227)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 11:37 am: | |
Luke,
Very well said.
Gus Haag |
Doug Dickinson (Dougd470) (65.161.188.11)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 2:42 pm: | |
Well said, Fred |
nvnenzel (207.213.160.253)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 3:07 pm: | |
Inspiring message luke. Here in the west (Nevada)the price is about $2.02/gal. Driven by taxes, tourist and the fact we get our oil from California. We also have some of the highest gas/electric rates in the nation. The price for living here in what I personally consider paradise.
Our state leaders have mandated the state be 15% geothermal by 2010 and 10% more from non-traditional resources. Although mass transit is all but non-existant in the high desert we are making in-roads.
Not only do we as members of the great planet earth need to do our part each state needs to look what they can do. I'm am not for more government, but sometimes our kind needs a swift kick to get going.
I personnally dream of the day all our cars will be run by hydrogen driven fuel cells. I do see several companies are looking at fuel cell generators to replace the loud stinking things we use now. Not there yet, but what a day when the coach electricity is produced by a quiet fuel cell that the only by-product is water and heat.
to OAE Palmer, I think you would like this quote:
"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." -Soren Aabye Kierkegaard 1813-1855. nvnenzel |
Peter Broadribb (Madbrit) (65.73.229.176)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 4:00 pm: | |
Yesterday I filled up in Kingman for $1.495 for diesel.
I heard that this latest series of price increases were due to some problem in Venezuela, not the war in Iraq. Anyone know if this is true?
Peter. |
John Rigby (24.174.235.126)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 8:59 pm: | |
Yes the Venezuela owned oil refineries in Texas and Louisiana have closed most of there units down due to the lack of the heavy crude they run shipped in from Venezuela.
The last time I was in England the going rate was $5.OO per gallon for regular
John |
Peter Broadribb (Madbrit) (65.73.229.176)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 10:11 pm: | |
The last I heard it was up to $6.50 allowing for the different sizes of the US and IMP gallon.
And to think that I drove a 427 Nova, a 4x4 GMC pick-up and a 24ft Winniebago when I lived over there, but that was over 10 years ago.
Peter. |
OAE Palmer (216.39.187.248)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 3:04 am: | |
Oh sure Henry D , you really didn't mean to start something...
;) CILL the messenger!! ;)
NVNENZEL...I cut & pasted your offering elsewhere on the web......the place from where 99% of the I can thefore it is valid people spin their wheels...my reference was NOT to the posts I come here to read...this place is a virgin compared to some of the CyberSewers available, an thank God for it...Ian also .....I suppose!
I predict that in the near future there will be people with guns guarding tubs of used resturant frying oil...about the sametime diesel hit $3.00 a gal. ;) |
FAST FRED (209.26.115.27)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 6:16 am: | |
The big hassle with hydrogen as a fuel is where does it come from?
If from a 65 year old coal fired systen 10X the polution will be in the air than from just burning diesel or gas.
If from a clean nuke plant , the Green Weenies would have a Hissy fit .
Hydrogen power , the "best" , if only we could go to the Sun to colect it in Quantity.
Otherwise a JOKE , with the Pogue Carburetor,
Cold Fusion , and "free" .
FAST FRED |
John jones (216.40.205.64)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 3:28 pm: | |
For those not aware of the new company in the auto market here is a website to look at. Their cars run on compressed air. That should get the politicians upset and they may want to tax the air next. These vehicles may not solve all the problems. But polution may be lowered if the big cities use these vehicles. imho.
http://www.bellwetherinteractive.com/mdi/vehicle.html |
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