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Peter E (Sdibaja) (66.123.253.216)

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Posted on Monday, March 24, 2003 - 10:58 am:   

I am familiar with Jones Offset Hitch ( http://www.busnut.com/artdg06.html ) and have seen a few in use. The owners say they love them.
Over the last few months I have seen a new twist, Offset Tow Bar. Unfortunately, I only have seen them moving on the highway. I have not had a chance to talk to an owner but I see no reason that they would work as well as the offset hitch.
Yesterday I saw a VW Bug being towed with one at 75 mph on the highway in Baja. It was flying along just fine, taking the curves with smooth ease.
It is clear that the tongue needs to be a bit longer that normal so that you don’t pinch on the offset side. My “regular” tow bar is 28”, 40” is the length that would work for the offset configuration.
The Reason: I have a great receiver on my 4905. I am having a offset tow bar constructed for $50 US. I will be able to swap it for my “regular” tow bar in 5 minutes using the existing mounts…
Any thoughts?
Steve Toomey (208.209.205.117)

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Posted on Monday, March 24, 2003 - 3:55 pm:   

I have thought of making an "offset ball mount" to put in the receiver for my tow bar/tow dolly.

Since there is minimal tongue weight, creating a moment about the center of the hitch shouldn't be a problem. This way I could have a different offset for the tow bar and tow dolly, without having to modify either.

Steve Toomey
Jayjay (198.81.26.174)

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Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 1:05 am:   

Let's talk about moment arms for a bit boys. With an offset hitch ( or ball, or towbar etc.) when the coach rocks one way and the toad rolls the other, the moment arm created by the offset causes the towbar to occillate with an oblate spheroidal action, (but not as a true Shape) This rapid rise on one side and slower fall on the other translates into a terrible strain on the front steering gear of the toad. Don't try the rationale that the ball obviates the motion either. It doesn't. It only saves the system from self-destruction! At best a slight amelioration may occur due to the ball, but the strain created on the front end of the toad is multi-directional and on a very rough road or bridge can be enormous. If it was a viable, desirable situation, then e-v-e-r-y-o-n-e would be doing it. Check with law enforcement too, it may even be illegal. One of you Mechanical Engineers plug some numbers into the computer showing the ascending arc created by the offset and watch the strain-curve rise rapidly on the chart. Don't start screamin' for further elucidation upon my part, 'cuz it ain't gonna' happen. I've come too close to an engineering treatsie now. Stop, and very slowly think through what happens at the offset, when the bus and toad go divergent directions. Bad Stuff. Cheers...JJ
Michael J (Mjryan) (67.41.234.16)

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Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 1:51 am:   

Jayjay,
What the heck did you just write? I no (don't) understand. Are there that many people wrong in their use of the off set hitch?
Michael j
Steve Gibbs (12.148.43.6)

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Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 7:51 am:   

I'm not sure what JJ said either, but it sounds good. Seriously, why use an offset hitch? Doesn't make sense to a symetrical kinda guy like me. Please enlighten me on the ways of the asymetrical world. Which is better right or left offset?

Steve G.
Peter E (Sdibaja) (67.115.8.132)

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Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 9:20 am:   

Steve: I think the reasons for towing at an offset are best said in the article at http://www.busnut.com/artdg06.html
I have never run into a problem with jumping a curb, I just want to be able to see if my tow is OK...

With our 4905 I usually tow a VW Thing as a dingy. With a conventional tow bar, it pulls great, I don’t feel it at all, not even a little bit, even in high winds.

The trouble is I can’t see it at all.

I have always been a bit nervous traveling down the highway and not knowing the condition of my tow.
Is it wandering?
Is it still there?

Peter
modelt (208.18.102.55)

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Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 10:27 am:   

I leave a backup camera on to see what's back there or not back there. A lot cheaper than messing with the hitch and getting yourself into possible strains on both units. What Jayjay says makes a lot of since. Just because so many are doing it, don't make it right. Kind of like someone saying I have been doing it that way for 30 years so it's right. Maybe they have been doing it wrong for 30 years?

Remember again this is just my opinion.
Larry
Jim Wilke (12.46.52.74)

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Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 2:11 pm:   

Well guys, JayJay may be right about the motion. BUT.... Take a piece of paper & sketch this thing out. If the coach is 96" wide, and your car is between 72 & 84" wide, then you would offset your hitch 12" at maximum.

If the bus hits a pothole on the left side & the left corner of the bumper drops 6", (That much drop would cause the top of the coach to rock about 30" which would throw everything on the right side inside accross the coach!)

The drop at 12" left of center would be about 1 1/2". While the actual motion would not be straight up and down, how much arc are we really talking about in 1 1/2"?

Further, The tires on the toad and the rubber suspension bushings would dampen a lot of that out. (Just what they are supposed to do.) Also, the steering on the toad is supposed to be unlocked to turn & follow the bus, isn't it?

Now, the above IS NOT to be construed as how to construct such a rig, just some common sense thought about what actually happens. I also think that a 6" drop of the bumper corner is pretty extreme but possible.

P.S.: JayJay I hope we don't have to be like Fast Fred & Ace after this!!!

Jim-Bob
GEORGE (67.115.10.126)

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Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 2:31 pm:   

I USING THAT KIND OF TOWBAR FOR YEARS ON FARM EQUIPMENT.
I PLOW THAT WAY.
ON MY MOTORHOME TOO WIT MY GEO.
WORKS GOOD NO PROBLEMS NEVER BROKE ANYTHING.
I DRIVE REAL ROUGH ROADS AND BEET MY EQUIPMENT IF I NEED TO GET SOMEWHERE QUICK.
JAYJAY DO YOU HAVE SOME EXPERENCE WITH HEAVY EQUIPMENT.
GEORGE
Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (64.114.232.235)

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Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 10:53 pm:   

If you people are interested, George Lowry mounted some wire fingers on his toad and his coach. They produce a cross in his field of view in his outside mirror as long as the toad is tracking true.

If anything throws the tracking or height of the toad, the cross changes so that he knows what is happening at a glance. I think it is a nice setup, and because the wires are part of a safety system, they can extend outside the bus without violating the width law.

That law exempts safety equipment from the overall width. This is why the outside mirrors do not violate the width law.

For what it's worth.

Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
Suncatcher
Jayjay (198.81.26.230)

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Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 2:23 am:   

George... 15 years on a farm, and 35 years on Construction Projects. Build airplanes for fun and profit, and worked briefly as a test pilot. Currently retired and chasing nubile LBFM's in Las Vegas. ...JJ
Jayjay (198.81.26.230)

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Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 3:34 am:   

Jim W. Re: Ace and FF. Hey I'll guarantee you we won't. If I remember it takes two to argue. I was only stating a position/opinion, grounded in specific knowledge/experience. I have enough trouble gettin' the Buffalo around some corners with a straight hitch. Try Utah SR9 thru Zion Park with one! I know and admire both Ace and FF, not only for their separate abilities, but for their opinions as well. Between them they may be almost as hard headed as I, but I still ain't gonna' argue on the 'Boards. Cheers...JJ
Mrbus (152.163.188.227)

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Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 11:34 am:   

J.J.,

Main question, are you catching any of those LBFMs? :)

Gus Haag
Larry Baird (Airhog) (159.115.190.5)

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Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 6:35 pm:   

No farm time, 20 years as a engineer,10 years teaching engineering at college, cert. welder and licensed structural contractor and have been pulling my pickup truck for years with a 12" offset ball mount on my MCI-7, but people do stupid things all the time and live to tell. If anyone wants drawings of mine let me know.
Brad Steward (142.177.97.105)

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Posted on Saturday, April 05, 2003 - 9:15 pm:   

Hi Larry
I am in the process of welding up my hitch on the MCI 5B and I would like some drawings!!
Thanks Brad
Peter E (Sdibaja) (200.56.105.60)

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Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 4:12 pm:   

.
Peter E (Sdibaja) (200.56.105.96)

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Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 7:21 pm:   

My welder was real iffy about the offset tow bar… he was not sure it would be the correct offset. So, I went for the pure Jones Offset Hitch: we mounted a second receiver at a 16" offset from center.

Now I see the side mirror of the Thing at a glance, and it tows just fine. I took it up to 75 on the highway, ran it thru town (Ensenada): the tight turns were a breeze, over all a real smooth ride.

Peter
Scott Whitney (66.82.9.26)

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Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 10:00 am:   

I don't understand the advantage of an offset. Is it just to see the toad in the side mirror? Or does it help on tight right turns? Seems like a $50 security camera trained on the toad would give a better visual of the toad's condition.

Scott
Peter E (Sdibaja) (66.123.253.21)

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Posted on Saturday, April 12, 2003 - 11:05 am:   

Scott: you asked why the offset?
The two original reasons were to 1= see the toad in the side mirror (I have no desire to go to the complexity of a backup camera for that simple task) and 2= eliminate the possibility of curb hopping with the toad on tight right turns.

Yesterday I discovered a side benefit… I observed the front wheels of my toad wobbling at low speed on rough roads… I could never fell this before, but now I could see it happening.
I solved that problem by changing the toe in adjustment and replacing the steering damper on my VW Thing.
Peter

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