| Author | Message | ||
| Johnny (67.241.224.54)
Rating: N/A |
No, I don't mean the one above the belt (sigh), I mean on the coach! I've heard all kinds of stuff--carry one, don't carry one and let road service deal with it, carry an unmounted tire & let RS mount it, carry a rim & tire let RS do it, carry a rim & tire & do it yourself. What do you people do/plan to do? Me? I plan to carry a complete rim & tire (11R22.5 non-recap on a 10-lug steel wheel), & the tools to change it myself. | ||
| FAST FRED (209.26.115.82) Rating: N/A |
The hassle of changing a tire is far less than waiting hours for the road service guy. I vote to have a spair , jack & X 10 wrench set so , the bride can pull the lug nuts while I take the bike off the rack & open the tire well. The hardest part of changing the tire is standing up the spair after its out of the well. FAST FRED | ||
| Mike Stabler (Docdezl) (64.255.109.223)
Rating: N/A |
I never check my tires with a "thumper". I always use a tire guage. Never go over 55 and don't tail gate so I can see that "thingy" in the road in time. Never over weight,never over speed! Always carry a spare (with air). Turned the spare over in the pickup so I could get to the valve at service time. Had a blow-out in front of the Goodyear store. And cracked a rim in the middle of Amish country. Go figure? Yes it was raining both times. Spent a whole sunday in Yazoo Miss. with a boat trailer tire. Think I'll go out and lube the mutiplier and check the spare........ smoke,rattle&,stink.......docdezl | ||
| Johnny (67.241.166.158)
Rating: N/A |
"The hardest part of changing the tire is standing up the spair after its out of the well." I thought you were supposed to get your wife to do that. *ducks and runs from angry wives* Seriously, I agree--that thing is HEAVY. Now, I gotta figure out where to put it on my bus.  Oh, and a tip: I'm adding airbags in back, and will plumb the air system so I can run my ace in the hole to deal with the big lug nuts on my bus: my 1/2" drive Snap On impact wrench. WAY less sweat & cursing than a breaker bar. One last thing: If you do carry the tools to change a tire, you should also carry a torque wrench to properly torque the lugs. | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (64.114.233.168)
Rating: N/A |
If you carry a bar the right length, you have a torque wrench. Three foot of bar with 170 lbs. standing on the end gives you 510 foot-pounds of torque. For what it's worth. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher | ||
| jmaxwell (66.42.92.14) Rating: N/A |
And slipping off the bar gives you one hell of pain in the a**, broken ankles, stretched achilles tendon, etc. Call RS | ||
| Johnny (67.241.166.158)
Rating: N/A |
By the time RS arrives I can have the tire changed, the tools put away, myself cleaned up, & be on the road again. | ||
| TomNPat (66.82.9.20)
Rating: N/A |
If you're driving a former New Jersey transit, you'd better find and have a spare. I wasted 3 days and lots of dollars recently because, like a fool, I dented one my rims on a rock. But it will happen to some more people, I'm sure. We got the only 'bus' rim (hub piloted, 1 3/16" stud holes, very thick construction) on the west coast today. $178 plus $30 shipping, and darned glad to have it. Regular hub piloted wheels ($82 plus sales tax) have holes measured in mm and I think they said like 33. They're like 1" or 1 1'16". And they're not as thick so lug nuts don't tighten well. New Jersey Transit bus had shouldered stud. If you've never drilled out 10 lug truck wheels, I can vouch for the fact that it isn't fun. Probably not legal either, but that's the only way we could get home a week ago. Limped 168 miles home on regular hub piloted rim drilled out to 1 3/16" (bit cost $63) with two loose washers on lug nuts. Talk about Greg Paciga's pucker factor! I'll never be without a spare again! And my wife told me so! TomNPat | ||
| Johnny (67.241.224.118)
Rating: N/A |
OUCH! Now I'm REALLY glad I'm building my conversion with maintainence & part availability in mind! | ||
| degojo (64.12.96.235) Rating: N/A |
good luck trying to break the lug nuts with a 1/2 inch drive | ||
| dana23 (205.188.209.11)
Rating: N/A |
will the bus air run a 1 inch impact wrench? thanks | ||
| mrbus (205.188.209.11)
Rating: N/A |
Dana I can operate my 1" impact wrench off the bus air system, but sometime you have to wait a little bit to have maximum volume. I also have an air over hydraulic jack that eleminates the hard part, simply place it under the jack point, hook up the air hose and open the valve, 12 ton jack and it works great. Gus Haag | ||
| Quest (198.29.191.147) Rating: N/A |
As I was talking to another bus nut who is in love with GMC also, I asked about a spare tire. He happens to have one on each side and the double tires (two each side) in rear. he said you already have one. He said to take off one of the doubles as a spare and then head to a shop for repairs. Sounded good at the time, do you al agree that this is a good plan for a spare? q | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior) (64.229.211.245)
Rating: N/A |
Oh Boy, we're having fun with this one! A few things: I would not plan on using a dual as a spare. (Somebody been watching that old OJ Simpson movie where he's the bus driver hijacked out in the desert again?) Fine in times of absolute crisis management, not a good plan. 1) the remaining single tire will be more than likely overloaded, leading to another failure. 2) a single rear tire will be very obvious to every cop for miles around, and you'll be charged with something. 3) on a practical note, is there enough thread on the rear studs to wind up all that extra distance? 4) those of the MCI persuasion, using a tag tire and chaining up the tag axle on one side would be closer to keeping your tires under their limits, but better see #2. Maybe it would be best to just have a proper spare, or depend on local tire service? On the proper torque front: Road Service will NOT properly torque your wheels. They will gun the S**T out of them with a 1 inch air gun. Many jurisdictions require no training for tire service. That is NOT a mechanic changing your wheels. You will be charged big dollars for the the pleasure of watching someone stretch your studs, or they're pissed at the low flat rate that your ERS service is going to pay for the job. Find out whether they like your ERS before they begin, and show them some tip money up front to do it right, if necessary. As for the measured bar and your body weight: You put your weight on the bar using your arms, not standing on it! In my opinion, there is absolutely no reason for a busnut to spend the money on a wheel torque wrench, unless you really want to have the toy. Your wheel lugs do not care where that 500 foot pounds of torque came from, as long as they get tightened to that amount. Tighten the wheel fasteners and then reach proper torque by: My 230 lbs, with my hands placed between the 2 foot and 2 and a half foot mark on the socket bar, with the bar close to parallel to the ground, lean down on the bar with straight arms, and transfer all my weight to the bar. When the fasteners won't move anymore, it's roughly 500 pounds - 2.25 feet times 230 pounds. If something slips off, my knees fall an inch or two to the ground. MOST IMPORTANT FORGOTTEN POINT ON WHEEL SERVICE: Drive a hundred miles or so and re-torque the fasteners. Some of them will draw up a little bit. The ones that do, mark them, drive some more and check again. If your studs have been stretched sometime in the past by being overtorqued with an air gun, they will not hold the proper 500 ft/lbs because they have lost their elasticity. More torque is not the answer. They will need to be replaced. Stretched studs are the ones that snap off while driving, because of the loss of elasticity in the metal. On the 1 inch air gun: You need the big gun to "break" the fasteners free, and the bus's air system will be happy to provide the air pressure to do that. Best resultsare to equip with bigger tank connections and hose to get the right air to the gun for strongest turns. Where you will suffer some performance trouble, is the big gun is hungry for air volume as it spins the fasteners off completely. Just take your time, or go around and "break" all 10 first, doing the hard work with the pressure high and then use up the air volume spinning them off. Your wheel fasteners and wheels will come off a lot easier if you make a habit of pulling your wheels for inspection once a year. If your wheels have been on for a few years, you might be able to get the fasteners off with a lot of sweat, and then the wheel won't come off because it has rusted itself to the brake drum. Those with aluminum rims, don't bet on them not being stuck too! If the tire has air in it, it is easy to leave the wheel fasteners loosely in place, move a short distance and put on the brakes sharply to get the wheels to break free, but kind of hard to do if the tire is flat.... which is why we're trying to remove it in the first place. Oh, don't forget to take out the jack first.... Another reason to pay attention to the preventive maintenance regime for your coach, better known as "Da Book". Never know when ignoring some routine thing will make roadside recovery a real pain in the a**, which is where we keep our wallets! happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Johnny (67.241.166.10)
Rating: N/A |
Not sure where my previous post went (must've forgotten to post afterpreviewing it), but: "good luck trying to break the lug nuts with a 1/2 inch drive" It popped all 40 rusted lugs loose, though I had to let the J-20's air tanks recharge after every 3 nuts or there wasn't enough air volume. Never underestimate a Snap-On! | ||
| Peter E (Sdibaja) (67.115.8.246)
Rating: N/A |
I would have a hard time taking any kind of trip without a spare, stuff happens and it always happens in the middle of the night where there is no reasonable help or parts to be had. One blowout outside of Pheonix at midnight on Friday was enough for me, glad I had a good spare because there was no way I was going to find a 12r22.5 before Monday, and it would probaby have to be shipped. I carry a good mounted spare, and I also carry a good tire to replace my mounted spare if needed. When I travel back country (Mexico) I also carry a second extra tire. No, I do not carry a jack or tire tools, but I think I will go to Harbor Freight today and see what they have... Peter | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A |
Here is another old retired firemans story. When we rooky firefighters decided to become Apparatus Operators or Fire Engineers, (after 5 years) part of the training process including changing out a flat tire. On an Engine we called it out of service on the radio, dumped all the water out of the booster tank to lighten the rear end, then stole a good rear wheel/tire to replace the "flat" front tire. No spare. Used a Budd socket on a 6 foot extension bar as the air chuck outlet on the rig only had 120 psi, not enough to use the air wrench which we did not have anyway. Anyway, as I remember fondly, even at the young age of 28 or sooosss, it was a real task to change out a flat front tire with hand tools. We all had to successfully do it to pass our Engineer certification. In actual service, the shop had a maintenance truck that would change out flats for us in a matter of minutes. Can not have fire engines out of service with flat tires. Anyway, thought you guys.... ...would like to know it was hard then and most likely impossible now as I am now over 50!!! He he he. Have a cold one and call a service truck, it is much easier. Love this board. Henry of CJ | ||
| Johnny (67.241.232.173)
Rating: N/A |
Then, wince as the service guy arrives (4 hours later), and overtorques all the lugs on the wheel by ahmmering them on with an impact wrench. This is if he even manages to get the tire changed without breaking something. As I said, by the time the guy even shows up, I can have the tire changed, tools away, myself cleaned up, & be on my way. I drive a wrecker...and there is NO WAY IN **** I'd let most of the other tow jockeys I see near any vehicle I drive! The fly-by-nights are amazingly dumb--I saw one Einstein try to tow a Cherokee with the parking brake on & the trans in gear. | ||
| C. Ray Powell (Raypowell) (205.188.209.11)
Rating: N/A |
OK, I've heard that there is a geared hand wrench to remove the lugs. Where do you buy this wrench and what do you call it? Thanks C Ray | ||
| FAST FRED (209.26.115.228) Rating: N/A |
Its called the X 10 or X 12 . Great for removing the lugs on GM's that have both left & right hand lug nuts. Most tire guys havce never seen this and will usually begin to snap them off for ya. FAST FRED | ||
| Steven Gibbs (12.148.43.6)
Rating: N/A |
I've had the wheels off many times to service things under the coach that I can't get to because I don't have a pit. I have jacks, jack stands, 3/4" air wrench, and torque wrench. However, I agree with Henry B.: when I'm doing this work in the driveway, I know how solid the surface is, there is no traffic, have good lighting, and all my tools available. On the highway, with the tire flat, sitting on the side of the road would be another story. I know we have a number of current or ex- truck drivers on this board. If changing a tire is such an easy task, why don't I see more pro drivers doing it themselves? Don't they have to keep moving to make money? And the owner/operator must be concerned about saving bucks. My guess is they are paying (either directly or through their insurance) for road service just like I am (it's included in my RVIA plan and as far as I know can't be deducted from the base plan). Just my (possibly flawed) logic. I will admit, I have never attempted to use the service yet (hopefully never will). Steve MC-9 Pontiac | ||
| ChineseElite (24.68.144.216) Rating: N/A |
Steve: Maybe because most companies (the good ones) would prefer you to take it to a Kal Tire, and have it done properly, or wait for road service. Just tell the tourists there is nothing you can do, enjoy the hotel while I go fix the bus. On that note, about overloading: I once saw a driver of a 97 Prevost (H3-45) drive to a Kal Tire (aprox 20km, 13 miles) on 6 tires. Yep, the right hand tag and outer drive were FLAT. Now, you are thinking, 'Well damn, big risk!'. Nope. Figure 40,000GVW, that makes it about 5000lbs per tire, normally loaded. Take two out of the picture, and you get 7000lbs per tire. Not bad, especially on your 24.5" tires. Now if only you could rig something up for me to my car, to have built in jacks and air tool capabilities... =D | ||
| Sam Sperbeck (206.230.105.249) Rating: N/A |
ChineseElite, Your reasoning may be a little flawed. I don't think you will find a converted H3-45 that weights as little as 40,000 lbs. Second is that if it does and you have two flats, one on the tag and one on the outsise dual on the same corner, you will have at least 10,000 lbs on the one remaining tire not 7,000 lbs. And that is based on the four corners weighting the same, witch is unlikely. Anyway that one tire is overloaded, but in a similar situation I might be inclined to do the same thing. Thanks, Sam | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior) (64.229.212.62)
Rating: N/A |
Variables to consider: Not every tire that needs changing is an on road blow out, and you may still have drivability. You wake up one morning and find a low or flat tire on your pre-departure walk around. You discover a nasty cut in a sidewall from some unseen piece of road junk, but still have air integrity. Tire suffers internal belt seperation and goes out of round, grows a sidewall bulge, vibrates at speed, etc. These are nuisances rather than crises. There may be times when one may have all the tools and choose to use ERS, other times when perhaps one may choose to do it alone, or someone offers to help out. Flexibility is only missed when it's gone. If money is of any concern to you, at least carry your own spare and have them install it. If Roadside Services charge you a hefty premium for that tire they bring along, it may turn your good campfire story into a trip wrecker because you had to dip into the fuel money to pay for the overpriced tire. There's lots better things to overspend on! happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| ChineseElite (24.68.144.216) Rating: N/A |
Buswarrior hit it on the nose: It is a nuisance, not a crisis. Especially since: 1) I was following the bus to the Kal Tire. No problem. 2) The driver said there was no difference, except he wouldn't take it on the highway (for obvious reasons). GVW was 43130lbs or so, commercial coach. | ||
| David B. (65.64.248.172) Rating: N/A |
I used a 3/4 air impact until the day I ran across a torque mutiplier from Snap on tools. This works great, 32 inch pounds of torque input gives you better than 550 lbs output. The days of pipes and busted fingers are over. I found this jewel at the pawn shop and got it for a 100 dollar bill. | ||
| Jeff Miller (205.217.70.113)
Rating: N/A |
Okay, I've had flats and blowouts, I've driven on one (Indianapolis to Louisville) flat inner dual, it is loading-pressure-speed so if load is increased, increase pressure to max on the other dual, and drive slower, you're not overloading at lower speeds (load capacity increases at lower speeds, simple heat buildup reduction). I've had all flats changed by road service, it usually takes from 1-1/2 hours (business hours, get lucky, truck nearby or drive to the store) to 4 hours (middle of the night, had to find a tire, middle of nowhere) which I considered lucky to pay $750 for a no-name 11R LRG tire (a $250 tire at best) installed. I carry a spare (used, un-mounted) on the roof, have the tire shop put it there with a "pinch truck", and will use it if a proper tire is not available, with a rim is too heavy IMO and I couldn't get it back up there on the road. I also carry an X-10 wrench, which I've used to change tires at home a couple of times, and a 20-ton hydraulic (michelin) bottle jack ($20 at Sam's Club right now). The point is that: 1) I have a spare in case I'm being held for ransom for a replacement tire, would rather have a good new one though. 2) in the middle of BFE, I can change a tire and run a dual up front, run slow. I would rather carry a mounted spare, but can't get the flat back to the roof, am happy giving away the bad tire after a change but not a rim with it (aluminum). And I don't want to give up basement space, it will stay on the roof. | ||
| the redneck (152.163.188.227) Rating: N/A |
Spare on the roof huh, must be one of those okie conversions. | ||
| Jeff Miller (205.217.70.113)
Rating: N/A |
Doesn't look bad, cover over it the same color as the A/C shrouds, really don't know unless you're looking for it. Now the shingled roof on the other hand, ... LOL | ||
| Johnny (67.241.224.38)
Rating: N/A |
Hmm--I'm NOT the only one to think of that. But, putting a mounted 11R22.5 on the roof of my bus does not strike me as a good plan...since I'd need a crane to get it down. I'm still working on that one. | ||
| Jeff Miller (205.217.70.113)
Rating: N/A |
It was an option on mine (factory), not sure how people get them up, but getting them down is a simple matter of rolling it off into the ditch and chasing it down. I recently replaced mine, and let the tire store keep the rim, saved about 40lbs and it won't bounce as far flat. |