| Author | Message | ||
| J.L.Vickers (Roadrunnertex)
Registered Member Username: Roadrunnertex Post Number: 80 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 76.6.73.135 Rating: N/A |
Greyhound bus wreck up date. http://www.ksee24.com/news/local/Six-dead-in-Greyhound-Bus-crash-at-Highway-99-and-McKinle y-Ave-99012474.html | ||
| George Martinez (Foohorse)
Registered Member Username: Foohorse Post Number: 172 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 72.144.22.70  Rating: N/A |
so the driver thought it was smarter to throw to bus into an uncontrollable maneuver that resulted in hitting something immovable (the tree) instead of pushing the wrecked car out of the way. I think they need better emergency scenario training. or a little more common sense. I am completely unexperienced driving buses, and my instinct would have been to keep the physics of this situation to my advantage. sorry wrecked car driver. | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Registered Member Username: Kyle4501 Post Number: 593 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 65.23.106.193  Rating: N/A |
From all I have seen so far, 'they' don't really KNOW what happened, yet & may never know. But, they are still investigating & hopefully there is enough evidence to explain for sure what happened. It could be that the initial impact with the uverturned suv changed the driver from a participant to a spectator. A small piece of debris can do horrible damage to a human. Sad thing to have happened. I hope no one else has to experience finding an overturned car in their lane . . . just after a blind hill . . . while traveling at interstate speeds . . . at ~2 AM . . . Training or not, until you experience that, you don't know what you'd do. I hope I never have the opportunity to find out what my response would be. | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 385 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 72.187.35.208  Rating: N/A |
I did have that happen to me, on the Sunshine Skyway bridge at about 4:00 A.M.. It was very dark and I locked up the brakes the instant I saw him and managed to stop about 10 feet from a collision. He was on his side with the wheels facing my lane. There was not enough time to even think about swerving or anything else. If I had been in a bus or truck, I would have hit him for sure. That was many years ago but one of those things you can never forget. | ||
| Mike Eades (Mike4905)
Registered Member Username: Mike4905 Post Number: 203 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 70.127.151.164 Rating: N/A |
I drive one the big buses for living and you don't know until you are in that situation. I been close a couple of times. A driver lost control and turned over right in fron tof me an dI don't know what I did , bu ti missed and the driver died on at the scene. I made no contact, but I don't know how. | ||
| George Martinez (Foohorse)
Registered Member Username: Foohorse Post Number: 173 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 72.144.22.70 Rating: N/A |
It happened to me 22 years ago. while heading to Brazil from Uruguay on a two lane highway over the crest of a hill, there was an overturned pick up in my lane I was doing between 95-105 in a 1977 souped up 600 hp lowered dechromed all white Lincoln town coupe, she was beautiful, thank god for American tanks. I knew instinctively I could not swerve (I learned to drive in Chicago's winters) I knew instinctively to pump my brakes not lock them, I smashed into that pick up it was laying on it's side top side facing me so I hit the cab roof I smashed and tossed the truck and destroyed the front end of my car but managed to keep in in a straight line. My friends and I were not hurt. the driver of the truck was banged up from his roll over but he was not inside, he said that he got out no more than a minute or two when I came along. that Lincoln is a car that I remember fondly. | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1704 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.195.124.20  Rating: N/A |
George - As is common with the news media, there are lots of conflicting reports coming out of this crash at this time. Until the CHP's MAIT team finishes, no one really knows, and even then, sometimes it's not totally accurate. Sadly, the coach driver cannot provide any input, as he didn't survive. If you watch the CNN report in the thread Thomas posted, apparently the bus did NOT swerve to avoid the SUV - it was a situation just like your Lincoln/pickup w/o the blind hill. Kyle's also potentially right - the coach operator may suddenly have found himself w/o any control of his vehicle due to the initial impact. And the Trailblazer WAS pushed off the road by the bus - later news videos show it. Since you yourself said "I am completely unexperienced driving buses," perhaps refraining from Monday Morning Quarterbacking would be wise. Compassion for those who lost their lives and the ones they left behind would be far more appropriate. Peace and prayers. . .  (Message edited by rjlong on July 22, 2010) | ||
| George Martinez (Foohorse)
Registered Member Username: Foohorse Post Number: 174 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 72.144.22.70 Rating: N/A |
It is my compassion for those that lost their lives that prompted me to voice my opinion / armchair quarter backing. and in that same spirit it is why again I will voice my opinion without any hesitation due to my conviction of being correct in what I am saying here regardless of who is offended by it, there should be some kind of investigation and standardization of emergency situation training of bus drivers, I have seen plenty of stupidity by so-called professional drivers of both semis and buses. perhaps such training would have helped here perhaps not. My prayer list seems to keep growing lately | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1333 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.243.103.74 Rating: N/A |
Really great to "see" you back, RJ...usual form...  Many on this forum may not appreciate the experience and ....the involvement. Many thanx for your continued "coverage"...as it were. RCB (Message edited by Chuckllb on July 22, 2010) | ||
| John & Barb Tesser (Bigrigger)
Registered Member Username: Bigrigger Post Number: 433 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 96.42.5.35  Rating: |
As a profesional driver and driver trainer for all my adult life, I can safely say there is no way to train for every situation. All you can do is be as aware as you can of your surroundings and keep as close of control as you can of your vehicle. Since no one was there to actually see what happened, I think it's a wasted exersize to blame the driver for anything or put any fault on him. He may have reacted as best is possible in the situation and maybe saved 30 lives that weren't lost because of it. Way out on a limb to say he wasn't acting profesionally George. John | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1334 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.243.103.74 Rating: N/A |
Amen....and amen!!! Thanx, John RCB | ||
| George M. Todd (George_todd)
Registered Member Username: George_todd Post Number: 1075 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 99.62.7.26 Rating: N/A |
One more thing to think about. The accident occurred at 2am, after an 8pm departure from LA. We don't know how long the driver was on duty before departure, or how much sleep he had... G | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1705 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.195.124.20 Rating: N/A |
George T - Good point! The accident occurred less than five miles from the Fresno Greyhound terminal. The coach would have spent approximately 20 minutes at the terminal, as it's considered a "meal stop". Fresno's terminal for years has been a "split board" - half the drivers work south, half the drivers work north. San Luis Obispo is similar. However, this particular schedule, apparently, is a "straight thru" run for the driver. According to the local newspaper's evening on-line story, the driver signed on at 7:30 pm in LA, arriving in Fresno at 1:45 am, approximately 15 minutes behind schedule. After the 20 minute meal break, well, that put him in the wrong place at the wrong time, sadly. Either way, tho, only five minutes after a departure would be very, very unusual for an operator to fall asleep. Also, based on the posted schedule, the driver's out of his seat approximately every 30 - 45 minutes, except for the section between Bakersfield & Fresno, so that helps combat the fatigue factor somewhat. The newspaper has also reported that the coroner's office said that the driver died instantly from massive injuries, and that he was a 32-year veteran employee of Greyhound with a spotless safety record. Think about that for a moment, George M. FWIW & HTH. . . (Message edited by rjlong on July 23, 2010) | ||
| George Martinez (Foohorse)
Registered Member Username: Foohorse Post Number: 176 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 72.144.22.70 Rating: N/A |
Sadly I must again defend what I am trying to say. I am not automatically blaming the driver "yet". He "MAY" have done all that he could to the best of his ability. or he could have been stoned, drunk, or high. I will wait before I praise or condemn him. What I am again saying is that the safety training or the aptitude screening for handling a bus or truck is a joke in this country. any moron can pass a drivers licence test and drive a car here. I went for a CDL license because "I" believe I needed a better understanding of how to handle a bus that now because it is labeled an RV any aforementioned moron can also get his hands on it and take it out on the road. to my disappointment but not to my surprise all I learned was how to park, place flares, read signs, load cargo, with precious little on the physics involved in an emergency maneuver and how it will affect your vehicle. some of you expert drivers that have acquired that knowledge and call it seat of the pants feel forget that there are kids out there beginning to drive these things that if better screened would perhaps not be behind the wheel of 10 ton + vehicle transporting cargo or passengers. or if better trained could acquire some of that seat of the pants feel sooner. RJ I apologize for the arrogant and mean sounding tone of my post yesterday I spent a day with Doctors and Lawyers so I was in a foul mood. and it came across in my post. I am starting my day with this post first thing while still in bed in a new light, but ready to take on all challengers. So come on all, I am ready and armed with 4 dachshunds chopping at the bit to shred ankles | ||
| George Martinez (Foohorse)
Registered Member Username: Foohorse Post Number: 177 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 72.144.22.70 Rating: |
I just reread my first post and it really does sound of the cuff. I should have put more thought into it. Rj Chuck is wrong I do appreciate and learn from your experience here, Chuck John and Barb I apologize for the negativity I may have caused you. the post above is my position on this. | ||
| Mark Renner (Boomer)
Registered Member Username: Boomer Post Number: 221 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 206.58.200.38  Rating: |
George you have got to understand that a CDL is just a very basic starting point in the training/licensing/learning process, and to agree with you, a poor, weak start at that. That said, maybe you should check out the driver training and evaluation program at GHL before slamming them. When I owned a bus company we constantly discussed the point of never doing a hard swerve or leaving the road, under ALMOST any situation (ie, if a semi truck is heading straight for you, you gotta do something). If it's an animal, person, car, etc., I trained my operators this: if you put the coach on it's side, people die; if you keep it upright, people live. Two incidents over many years confirmed this; a head on collision where a kid crossed the center line and impacted our H3-45 head on at a combined 110 mph without so much as even a bruise to the driver or pax (dead car driver); and another time where a car pulled out right in front of the bus. In the millisecond before impact the driver told me he heard my voice in his brain saying "don't swerve"; result was no injuries. This is a subject that all busnuts should think seriously about. First of all, don't speed and keep a safe following distance which are the two biggest reasons for crashes. But please, think about what you are going to do when you find yourself in the unfortunate position that this GHL driver did that night. | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Registered Member Username: Kyle4501 Post Number: 594 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 65.23.106.193 Rating: N/A |
One never knows what thoughts will present themselves when faced with this situation. Sometimes, time speeds up & all I can hear in my head is “crap!, crap!, crap!, crap!, crap!” right up until the sound of something expensive intrudes. This is usually followed by the sharing of personal information with strangers while experiencing the lovely ambiance the flashing lights provide. Other times, it is as if time almost stops & I can think thru all of my options. These are the times the witnesses are either impressed that I avoided certain destruction, or still sound asleep. Trained or not, no one gets a 32 year spotless record driving a bus by lucky chance. You’d have to be well above average abilities to have done that. | ||
| steve wardwell (Steve_wardwell)
Registered Member Username: Steve_wardwell Post Number: 56 Registered: 2-2010 Posted From: 75.203.41.127  Rating: N/A |
this might be of interest to some of you.The last employ I had was driving a front loader mixer. we had a Smiths driving course and it saved us $ on my own ins (them too). My wife took a different course she got off the net for $30 and good for 2-3 years and saved another 15%...Ck with your ins co's to see.The essence was to be looking as far ahead as possible | ||
| JC Alacoque (Jc_alacoque)
Registered Member Username: Jc_alacoque Post Number: 90 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 207.34.166.7 Rating: N/A |
I drove for Brewster's out of Banff, AB, ( a subsiduary of Greyhound) in the '70s. We had 3 weeks of driver training before we were turned loose on our own with passengers. Lots of defensive driving. A big thing was: do not swerve to avoid an obstacle. Brake in a straight line. It takes a lot of practice and mental rehearsing to be able to do that. The normal reflex is to swerve, leading to loss of control. Let us refrain from any kind of speculation about the cause of this accident, untill we know more about it. The only thing I know is when going down the highway at speed, at night, you're overdriving your head lights most of the time: you could not stop in time if something suddendly appeared in front of you. I drive the hockey team's bus all winter in the dark, and I am still not really comfortable about being 100% safe. The only way would be to drive 40mph. Even with 35 years safe driving such as this driver had, you are still vulnerable to such an incident. This makes me want to quit driving for the hockey team... JC | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 301 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 72.102.63.131 Rating: N/A |
I try to never drive at nite anymore.....but if i do, bus,or car, i drive much slower so that i am not overdriving my lights, and have much more time to react/stop. | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 7 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 173.25.102.183 Rating: N/A |
why are we overdriving our lights? why wont our lights reach far enough ahead? isnt our technology there yet? I dont like driving at night and never felt comfortable with it for some reason, now I know why!!! what is going on with the manufactures? | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 386 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 72.187.35.208 Rating: N/A |
From various sources on the net, stopping distance for a bus at 65 MPH is about 70 feet reaction time and 450 feet stopping distance for a total of 520 feet. The typical headlight shines about 160 feet on low beam and 350 feet on high beam. | ||
| George Martinez (Foohorse)
Registered Member Username: Foohorse Post Number: 178 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 72.144.22.70 Rating: N/A |
Chuck thank you for the info. I value it since it is coming from the horses mouth. also I have not read that this driver was a 35 year veteran with no mishaps. sadly my genetic makeup tends to make me boil rather instantly. | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 8 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 173.25.102.183 Rating: N/A |
So why hasnt someone made a headlight (either aftermarket or OEM) that throws the light further for buses on low beam? Can we not do that without blinding other drivers? | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1706 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.195.124.20 Rating: N/A |
Teresa - They do make better headlamps - Europe's used them for years. Called "E-code", they have an entirely different light pattern compared to the lousy US DOT lamps, yet they use the same halogen bulbs (H-1, H-3, H-4, depending on the model). I've talked about this numerous times on this board and on the Bus Conversions BBS over the last 10 years or so. Do an archive search for more info. They're expensive, tho - roughly $250 for a four-headlamp set like you have on your RTS. When folk balk, I ask "What price SAFETY?" www.cibieusa.com FWIW & HTH. . . | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 9 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 173.25.102.183 Rating: N/A |
Thanks RJ, I will do a search. Yes $250 is a lot of cash, but for night driving it could make all the difference in the world. If I could see at night in the bus I might even drive it at night. I drive my car at night and never felt unsafe, but the bus driving at night on the highway has never felt quite right. | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 439 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
Teresa I have used and liked Bosch lites in the past. One incident comes to mind about thirty years ago where a pedestrian that had been scooped up by a vehicle ahead of me, would have been under my vehicle if it had not been for the goode lites that I had. It was a fatality, and I will never be able to erase that from my mind. As RJ says "what price safety" Joe. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 1249 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 99.153.142.249  Rating: N/A |
In my old Porsche days, even though the batt was up front , all the wiring to the lights left pretty low voltage. The better Euro headlights will still be crappy with low voltage. I would start with bringing #8 wiring to the lamps and use a relay for controll. Overkill fer sure but cheap , effective and will be required IF you spring for the Euro lamps. FF |
