| Author | Message | ||
| thomas flocks (Taflocks)
Registered Member Username: Taflocks Post Number: 305 Registered: 9-2009 Posted From: 74.76.246.165 Rating: N/A |
how can i make my 120 volt flow in only one direction? i had a inverter that would automatically cut off shore power when it was turned on but that bit the dust i now have a 3000 watt xanterex that i need to hook up. i have tried to put a 2 breakers on it with an on off see-saw device but i get voltage leakage. when i had it in the inverter on and shore off and turned on the inverter i blew the shore power breaker. what i seem to need is a very high power diode. do they make such an animal? thanks! | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Registered Member Username: Pvcces Post Number: 1333 Registered: 5-2001 Posted From: 65.74.67.67 Rating: N/A |
Thomas, if you make it flow in only one direction, it will be kinda useless, if the 120 is AC. Then, it would be DC and most equipment couldn't use it. Your Xantrex most likely has a transfer switch; if you have the manual for it, the directions for proper hookup should be followed. Modifications can get you into a world of hurt. For what it's worth. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher Ketchikan, Alaska | ||
| George M. Todd (George_todd)
Registered Member Username: George_todd Post Number: 1090 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 99.56.240.204 Rating: |
Taflocks, As Pvcces says, installing a diode would make your AC into half wave DC. That's not what you want. I don't know exactly how to say this politely, but your question scares us electricians. Please don't take offense, and read what I just posted on "additional air into engines," specifically "no dumb questions." I still mean it, but BE VERY CAREFUL WHAT YOU DO WITH 120 VAC. We don't have enough information yet to be of much help, but here goes some guesses, questions, and suggestions: 1. Does your new inverter have automatic changeover, as in connections labeled auxiliary, or AC in, as well as 120 VAC output? 2. Where do you have the shore power connected to now? 3. How are the ground and neutral connected, and to what? 4. 20, 30, or 50 Amp shore service? 5. A seperate bus bar for the grounds and neutrals, with the neutral bar insulated from the panel? 6. Generator mixed in with all of this? 7. A pair of double-pole breakers with an interlock to prevent both from being on at the same time, and the input to one breaker connected to the inverter output, the other input connected to the shore cord, and the other side of the two breakers connected together, and to the bus 120 VAC, will work for a 20 or 30 AMP service. If you have a 50 AMP, it will require 3 pole breakers, with the neutral switched also. If your inverter has battery charging capability, you don't want to do what I just suggested, because you won't have house battery charging while on shore, and your inverter probably has changeover? I'm sorry, but you really need to unplug your shore cord, and turn off your inverter until you can give us model numbers and an accurate description of how this is wired. A couple of days delay is far better than a fire or electrocution! George Todd | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 19 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 173.25.102.183 Rating: N/A |
Does anyone make a "kit" for non electricians or even a complete plan for stuff like this? (Message edited by happycamperbrat on August 15, 2010) | ||
| George M. Todd (George_todd)
Registered Member Username: George_todd Post Number: 1091 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 99.56.240.204 Rating: |
Teresa, Dave Gailey's book, available thru this home page is the answer. As a licensed electrical contractor, wiring a bus is much more complex than wiring a large house. Most houses don't have batteries, generators, and inverters, in addition to 12 or 24 Volt DC, and 120VAC. The importance of proper grounding, and neutral switching, can't be understated! Catch-22 applies here, if you don't know what I'm talking about, you really shouldn't consider wiring your own bus. We're all good at something, whether its complex mathematics, astronomy, carpentry, electrical, etc. I have no carpentry ability, I cut things off twice, and they're still too short! It just happens that I'm good at electrical design and troubleshooting. Sean's electrical schematic is posted on his website, and as a result, his bus will do almost everything electrical by itself. That includes changing over from a 30 to a 50 amp shore service, etc. I don't want to pick on Tom above, but in his situation, he has wired something incorrectly, and/or bought an inverter that is really not compatible for use in a bus. It takes more than just a residential electrician to SAFELY wire a bus. Wire a bus like a house, and you will get shocked sometime when you go to open your door while standing on wet ground. This has been posted here several times. One wire on the wrong spot can be lethal, as so much of a bus is metal. A wiring error in a bus may not show up, until the shore cord is plugged into an improperly wired pedestal, or run into an improperly wired plug in your friend's house. So, get the book, and if you don't understand it ask for qualified help. We have it here, and we are willing to share. G | ||
| thomas flocks (Taflocks)
Registered Member Username: Taflocks Post Number: 306 Registered: 9-2009 Posted From: 74.76.246.165 Rating: N/A |
the inverter is http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110571014102&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT i have a geni,an inverter and shore power there is no battery charger on the inverter and no transfer switch. i have wired the shore power and the inverter power into a 2 breaker square d box with a http://us.element-14.com/jsp/displayProduct.jsp?sku=80C4154&CMP=KNC-OTH-SKU-OTH&s_kwcid=TC|20219|qo2dti||S|b|5593365134 i have gone from the front of the breaker to get this to work so i have a 2 into one effect. i seem to have a 22 volt bleed when the breakers are off.the reason for the cheaper inverter is i am very cash poor at this time. | ||
| thomas flocks (Taflocks)
Registered Member Username: Taflocks Post Number: 307 Registered: 9-2009 Posted From: 74.76.246.165 Rating: N/A |
what i had meant was i wanted to know if i could find a way to make the 120vac flow in only one direction. | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 1138 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 67.142.130.37  Rating: N/A |
Tom, There is no equivalent device to a "diode" for AC power. Diodes can only steer DC power. The "Eliminator 3000" is a private-label product made by Xantrex for Canadian Tire. It is basically a re-branded XPower 3000. As you know, it has only a 120-volt output and no AC input. The only correct way to connect the output to an existing electrical system that must also be usable on shore power is to use a transfer switch. That can be a manual or automatic type, and should be rated for at least 30 amps (40 would be preferable, but harder to find). It is less straightforward to use a panel with two breakers in it, even with the mechanical interlock you described, because you MUST switch the neutrals along with the hots. With this QO device, your panel must have exactly four positions, and you must use two 2-pole breakers. One of the normally "hot" busses in the panel would have to be repurposed as the neutral. Naturally, this method can not accommodate a split-phase input on the shore side, Without seeing how you wired the inverter to the panel I can not say for sure why you are blowing breakers, but I am guessing it is because you wired the inverter and shore neutral to each other. Nor can I say where the 22 volt leakage is coming from, but again my guess would be either a cross-wired neutral or that you have a ground fault someplace else. If it were my inverter to install, I would get an ATS based on a 30-amp DPDT relay and wire the inverter to the NC side and the shore input to the NO side (with shore power to the coil). If what I just wrote sounded like gibberish, I would strongly recommend you enlist the help of a local electrician familiar with RV systems for the installation, or perhaps there is an electrically savvy bus nut closer to you who can help out. Transfer switches can be tricky if you don't know what you are looking at or how they are supposed to be wired. HTH, -Sean http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (Message edited by Sean on August 16, 2010) | ||
| thomas flocks (Taflocks)
Registered Member Username: Taflocks Post Number: 308 Registered: 9-2009 Posted From: 74.76.246.165 Rating: N/A |
even before i read your post, i bought this http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220627567455 which should do the job.... thanks for your help! i know if it comes from Sean it must be good advice!!! | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 1139 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 67.142.130.37 Rating: N/A |
OK. Note that the switch you bought is for three-wire, single-phase circuits. If you have a 50-amp shore service (four-wire, split phase) you will need to feed this switch from a single-pole breaker in your main panel, and then wire the output to a sub-panel for the inverter loads. -Sean http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 1281 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 99.153.142.249  Rating: N/A |
what i had meant was i wanted to know if i could find a way to make the 120vac flow in only one direction. If you mean only one source can power your coach , the easy setup is to use a 50A 240V PLUG that powers the coach , and a socket for the power pole , inverter , and noisemaker. This allows the switching of the neutral and ground connections (and power ) as the "source", changes. Cheap, and pretty easy to wire or understand. FF | ||
| thomas flocks (Taflocks)
Registered Member Username: Taflocks Post Number: 309 Registered: 9-2009 Posted From: 74.76.246.165 Rating: N/A |
only 30 amp. it's a 4106 | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 1283 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 99.153.142.249 Rating: N/A |
only 30 amp. it's a 4106 PLUG and sockets Works the same , but 50/240 will be better as you can run 2 AC at the same time , or 4 electric heaters with the HW heater and block heater . Many noisemakers are set up for 240V (2-120V lines) so the wiring will be the same. FF |
