| Author | Message | ||
| thomas flocks (Taflocks)
Registered Member Username: Taflocks Post Number: 310 Registered: 9-2009 Posted From: 74.76.246.165 Rating: N/A |
i got the new transfer switch today i wired the inverter to the top shore to middle and the bottom to the panel.i can run the shore fine and i can run the inverter fine but if i turn off shore and try to put it back on i get a dead short and blow the house breaker even if the inverter is turned off it will short. any ideas? there is no backfed voltage when i remove the center wires so that's not the problem. | ||
| Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 550 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 184.0.3.170  Rating: N/A |
Thomas, when you look at the schematic of the switch, one set of contacts would be referred to as "Load" or "Common" and that would be where your panel should be connected. Those contacts are the ones that get connected to the shore or inverter depending on which way you turn the switch. The other terminals may be labeled "Source 1 & Source 2" or similar. The two "source" connections must NEVER be connected together no mater which way you turn the switch. It sounds like you have the shore & panel connections reversed. Check this by the schematic or with a meter (with the power disconnected!) | ||
| thomas flocks (Taflocks)
Registered Member Username: Taflocks Post Number: 311 Registered: 9-2009 Posted From: 74.76.246.165 Rating: N/A |
http://www.iotaengineering.com/its30r.htm | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 1148 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 72.171.0.146  Rating: N/A |
Tom, I'm not sure I follow the sequence that is causing the problem. You say the shore runs fine, unless you turn it off and then back on? Any chance you can take a photo of the switch wiring and post it? -Sean http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com | ||
| thomas flocks (Taflocks)
Registered Member Username: Taflocks Post Number: 312 Registered: 9-2009 Posted From: 74.76.246.165 Rating: N/A |
if you look at the url above there is a url to the wire schematic | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 395 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 72.187.35.208  Rating: N/A |
Thomas, We can see the diagram in the link you posted. The question is, how did you wire it? Did you use Diagram 1 or diagram 2? Using Diagram 2, with the shore power connected to the center terminals, the inverter to the top terminals and the output to the bus panel connected to the lower terminals should work. In that configuration, having the shore power hot would make it the priority (after a time delay). No shore power would have the inverter connected. I think that is why Sean was asking for a photo. We know how it should be wired, we want to see how you have wired it. Long distance trouble shooting without eyes on the problem can be difficult. | ||
| thomas flocks (Taflocks)
Registered Member Username: Taflocks Post Number: 313 Registered: 9-2009 Posted From: 74.76.246.165 Rating: N/A |
just like #2 i will try taking the bottom one off and just attaching a load to it to see if i get the same results. | ||
| thomas flocks (Taflocks)
Registered Member Username: Taflocks Post Number: 314 Registered: 9-2009 Posted From: 74.76.246.165 Rating: N/A |
try flocks.shutterfly.com for photos | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 1149 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 72.171.0.146 Rating: N/A |
OK, I have looked at the photos and wiring looks correct, except for the grounds not being connected. You have some other code issues, too, but let's concentrate on getting this working. First off, connect the grounds, because that provides an important safety, especially if you are blowing breakers. Secondly, I see that your inputs are home-made cables terminating in plugs. We need to be certain the plugs are also wired correctly, with the hot and neutral on the correct tangs. The next question I would ask is this: If you completely disconnect the load (remove the bottom connections from the switch), when you connect the shore power, does it trip? Does the relay close first? -Sean http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 397 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 72.187.35.208 Rating: N/A |
I looked at the photos and I don't see anything obviously wrong there. It worked OK on shore power, then transferred to inverter when you removed the shore power, right? Then, when you reapplied power to the shore connection, the relay transferred and tripped a shore power breaker, right? It doesn't make sense. With that open contact relay, you should be able to observe what is happening. The only thing I can think of is a load like an air conditioner which was momentarily disconnected and pulled a lot of current when power was again applied. I would either remove the coach load and substitute a lamp or make sure that most of the coach load is turned off. It looks like the cable coming in from the top is the inverter power. Are you absolutely sure that you have the two bottom cables correct, shore on the left and load on the right. If they were mixed up, it would account at least partially for your symptoms. | ||
| thomas flocks (Taflocks)
Registered Member Username: Taflocks Post Number: 315 Registered: 9-2009 Posted From: 74.76.246.165 Rating: N/A |
everything is correct. i did remove the load and substituted a electric drill, the switch worked fine.i think i should just run a new wire from the switch straight to the panel.problem is i have no idea if the geni will still work? | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 398 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 72.187.35.208 Rating: N/A |
How are you connecting the generator. If you are using a second transfer switch for the generator, it should come first in the string as in Fig C of the Iota drawings. It might be a good idea to sketch out the whole system, shore power, generator, inverter and panel so we can see what you are doing. Len | ||
| thomas flocks (Taflocks)
Registered Member Username: Taflocks Post Number: 316 Registered: 9-2009 Posted From: 74.76.246.165 Rating: N/A |
i may of found the problem, the extension cord from the main house is wired backwards. i will fix it in the morning. maybe this is why the last inverter kept blowing breakers. in fact i think the problem started when i started using this cord. | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 1152 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 72.171.0.146 Rating: N/A |
That would do it. Which is why I asked about the plugs being properly wired. Once you get this resolved, I suggest you also look for ground faults in the coach wiring. That might have contributed to the problem. For anyone following along, this is a good opportunity to remind everyone that you should always test the shore receptacle before plugging in. Reversed polarity on a shore receptacle is not only hazardous, it can also be expensive, as any number of things might be destroyed when subjected to it. For 15-, 20-, and even 30-amp receptacles, even one of the inexpensive three-light outlet testers available at any home improvement store is a big step up from pot luck. Use a simple 30-to-15 adapter available at Camping World and other RV retailers to connect the tester to a 30-amp outlet. Anything other than a "good" or "normal" reading (two yellow or green lights, no red) should be cause to pass it up. For 50-amp outlets (and for best results on all outlets) use a voltmeter with a 250-volt AC scale. You should read 110-125 between (each) hot and neutral, zero between neutral and ground, and 110-125 between hot and ground. For 50-amp receptacles, you should read 208-250 between the two hots. If any of these readings falls outside those ranges, again, pass the outlet up. The life (or equipment) you save may be your own. -Sean http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com | ||
| thomas flocks (Taflocks)
Registered Member Username: Taflocks Post Number: 317 Registered: 9-2009 Posted From: 74.76.246.165 Rating: N/A |
my last inverter was most likely just fine...... i dont feel real bad though as it was a heart 1800 from 1994.thanks sean and all others for all your help~!!! | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 962 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.55.13.161  Rating: N/A |
Lets see!! If youhave 120 volt source,the white is ground,green goes to the silver and the black to the other side? Now on 240 volt,the white is still ground and the green is negative ,the black and red goes to what is left, Right? No Left. Sean and others,I B Pullin ya leg,ya no that by now tho. I think that the knowlege that is and has been shared here,without a doubt is priceless and I thank all who contribute. Hats off SALUTE!! Gomer | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 1324 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 69.98.201.188  Rating: N/A |
Gomer, White is neutral and goes on the silver screw. Green is ground and attaches to the case/chassis. Black connects to the brass screw | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 963 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.55.13.161 Rating: N/A |
I thought something was wrong, Thanks for clearing the problem up. LOL | ||
| thomas flocks (Taflocks)
Registered Member Username: Taflocks Post Number: 323 Registered: 9-2009 Posted From: 74.76.246.165 Rating: N/A |
i tried her out and even used a 3 light tester all seems to work fine now!!!! thank sean and everyone else... | ||
| thomas flocks (Taflocks)
Registered Member Username: Taflocks Post Number: 324 Registered: 9-2009 Posted From: 74.76.246.165 Rating: N/A |
now my breakers for the ac units blow when i power the unit up.. any ideas? | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 1157 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 67.142.130.47 Rating: N/A |
I would meter the inputs to the A/C units with the units switched off and make sure it's all correct before going further. Do the breakers blow if you try to turn them to "fan only" or only if you run the compressor, too? -Sean http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com | ||
| thomas flocks (Taflocks)
Registered Member Username: Taflocks Post Number: 325 Registered: 9-2009 Posted From: 74.76.246.165 Rating: N/A |
wont run at all i have a 20 amp breaker with 2 blacks soldered together.worked fine before i put the transfer switch in, all is fine with the new switch and the inverter. i think this breaker is before the transfer as it blows before the transfer has time to kick in. | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 1158 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 67.142.130.44 Rating: N/A |
"a 20 amp breaker with 2 blacks soldered together" I don't follow that, can you elaborate? For a 20-amp circuit to an A/C you should have a single-pole breaker and there would be a single hot (black) wire. "... i think this breaker is before the transfer ..." This also does not make sense... from your photos, the shore power and inverter come directly into the transfer switch, so you panel would be after the switch. If you did not have this problem before you fixed the shore line, I would suspect miswiring to the unit. Now that the shore line is properly wired, the incorrect unit wiring is causing a trip. Double-check that you have the ground, neutral, and hot correctly connected at both ends. Also, check the hot-neutral resistance at the unit with an ohmmeter -- it should not read zero or anything less than, say, 100 ohms. -Sean http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com | ||
| thomas flocks (Taflocks)
Registered Member Username: Taflocks Post Number: 333 Registered: 9-2009 Posted From: 74.76.246.165 Rating: N/A |
with the a/c on? or off? should i also try to heat up the black wire and the white from an extension cord? i think everything i did was wired properly with your help of course. i have thought that there might be something mis wired but have not found what that may be.although in the past if the a/c had been wired wrong, why did it work fine at campgrounds? | ||
| thomas flocks (Taflocks)
Registered Member Username: Taflocks Post Number: 335 Registered: 9-2009 Posted From: 74.76.246.165 Rating: N/A |
i have 2 open grounds and 1 hot ground reverse what do i have to do to fix it?????? | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 1159 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 67.142.130.20 Rating: N/A |
"in the past if the a/c had been wired wrong, why did it work fine at campgrounds?" You've made a lot of changes since the inverter problem. Without the history of exactly what has been done since the last time it was working in a campground, it's not possible to answer this question. "i have 2 open grounds and 1 hot ground reverse what do i have to do to fix it??????" You're going to have to track down why the grounds are open, and where the hot and neutral are swapped. A volt-ohm meter with an audible continuity tester is helpful here. Given what's been happening with your electrical system, I'm going to further suggest you go through the entire system with a tester and make certain every circuit is good, not just the air conditioner. Lots of things can be damaged by reverse polarity. You might ask around to see if a person closer to you experienced with electrical installations can help. It's hard to diagnose anything like this long distance without the ability to put my eyes on it or wield the meter myself. -Sean http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com | ||
| thomas flocks (Taflocks)
Registered Member Username: Taflocks Post Number: 338 Registered: 9-2009 Posted From: 74.76.246.165 Rating: N/A |
front a/c was wired wrong....... everything seems to work fine now. i did break the breaker box while working on it but i had an extra square d box in stock... thanks for all your help!! |