| Author | Message | ||
| Dallas Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 73 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 75.91.201.157  Rating: N/A |
Yeah, I know, you can get 10mpg *** and 6 mpg *** for a total of 16 mpg. Now, what are your real numbers overall? | ||
| steve wardwell (Steve_wardwell)
Registered Member Username: Steve_wardwell Post Number: 89 Registered: 2-2010 Posted From: 75.203.34.184  Rating: N/A |
MCI 7 combo solid 6 up or down .5 8/71 T 40,000 lbs + 24' inc. trailer at 7,000+- (Message edited by steve_wardwell on September 04, 2010) (Message edited by steve_wardwell on September 04, 2010) (Message edited by steve_wardwell on September 04, 2010) | ||
| Cable (Fe2_o3)
Registered Member Username: Fe2_o3 Post Number: 53 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 108.17.169.121  Rating: N/A |
I get 8 to 9 on the flats...6.7 in the passes out west. Average for 2k mi. trip this year 7.5. 4104, 6-71, 4 spd. 28k lb. towing a 99 Ranger...Cable | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 308 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.96.135.116 Rating: N/A |
Best i have gotten is 8.2, worst is 5.9 Usually get right at 7.2 68 5A with 8V71N, auto tranny, and weigh 29,000 lbs. | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 309 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.96.135.116 Rating: N/A |
Oh yeah, we tow an 87 Jeep Wagoneer. | ||
| Jerry W Campbell (Jerry_w_campbell)
Registered Member Username: Jerry_w_campbell Post Number: 45 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 206.125.91.100  Rating: N/A |
1975 Crown 6-71N 5 speed 27,000 lbs. towing a VW pickup, 6000 miles, 9.9 mpg Jerry (Message edited by jerry W Campbell on September 04, 2010) | ||
| Andy Wright (Wrightwy)
Registered Member Username: Wrightwy Post Number: 53 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 75.196.224.143 Rating: N/A |
68 Eagle towing a Tahoe with a 8/92 TA 6.5 | ||
| steve wardwell (Steve_wardwell)
Registered Member Username: Steve_wardwell Post Number: 90 Registered: 2-2010 Posted From: 75.203.34.184 Rating: N/A |
G my mpg sorta stinks..how can you guys be so light ? | ||
| Tom Phillips (Fortyniner)
Registered Member Username: Fortyniner Post Number: 19 Registered: 2-2010 Posted From: 66.93.216.253 Rating: N/A |
The only hard numbers I have are 50.7 gallons from Jacksonville Fl to Pensacolla in a 4106. thats about 7mpg. Not that great. Tom P. | ||
| John & Barb Tesser (Bigrigger)
Registered Member Username: Bigrigger Post Number: 449 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 96.42.5.35  Rating: N/A |
We got 6.5 overall in February towing a Focus and idling the bus at night from Wisconsin to Florida and back. | ||
| Paul Lawry (Dreamscape)
Registered Member Username: Dreamscape Post Number: 680 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 64.40.216.125  Rating: N/A |
Last I checked it averaged around 8. Haven't checked the last couple of trips. Need to get 'er weighted and see what I get when we head out to the Bus Rally Trifecta end of the month. | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 130 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 69.171.160.87  Rating: N/A |
Between 7.8 & 9.1 in my 4106 between Chicago & Tucson on the Interstate, and US-54 from Santa Rosa to I-10 in Las Cruces & Tucson, and I was a bit heavy. | ||
| Mike Eades (Mike4905)
Registered Member Username: Mike4905 Post Number: 206 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 70.127.151.164 Rating: N/A |
Towing thirty foot trailer that is very heavy, average 5.26 mpg at 290 hp on an 8v71 with automatic | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Registered Member Username: Pvcces Post Number: 1336 Registered: 5-2001 Posted From: 65.74.67.67 Rating: N/A |
Our stock 4106 is standard shift and weighs 27,000 lbs. Running 60 to 65, between 9.5 and 10. Overall average is about 9.5; no lower than 8.6 and no higher than 10.5. Running in the low 70s, we get 9.5. We do not tow. Also, we are standard timed with N60 injectors. For what it's worth. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher Ketchikan, Alaska | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 131 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 69.171.160.94 Rating: N/A |
You folks can see the difference experience makes, Tom's rig & mine are less than 100 units apart & have the same 8-71 & injectors. My lower numbers are completely attributable to my lack of experience & chasing 80 mph most of the way. (guilty-embarrassment here) (Message edited by Jack_Fids on September 05, 2010) | ||
| Rob A (Otto)
Registered Member Username: Otto Post Number: 18 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 70.76.118.10 Rating: N/A |
9.9 mgg with a cat 3176/7speed in commercial use that is not at 55 mph I joke the only time it sees 55 is once on the way up ...and once on the way down | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 1043 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 68.243.16.15  Rating: N/A |
40,000 lb prevost with no trailer averaging 5.9 and thats using my pro-link. I wouldnt recommend using a silverleaf vms 120 | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 1298 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 99.153.142.249  Rating: N/A |
"Our stock 4106 is standard shift and weighs 27,000 lbs. Running 60 to 65, between 9.5 and 10. Overall average is about 9.5; no lower than 8.6 and no higher than 10.5. Running in the low 70s, we get 9.5. We do not tow. Also, we are standard timed with N60 injectors. For what it's worth." Tom's numbers are the same as mine, for a Sportscar but we do tow a 1500lb single axle trailer.And have "mountain gears" from a 40 ft'er. "My lower numbers are completely attributable to my lack of experience & chasing 80 mph most of the way." Unless you have a custom made ring & pinion you are probably pulling Fire Truck RPM's so fuel will not be the biggest expense. Even with the biggest diameter tires 80 is hard to get with out engine overspeed.. FF | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 1337 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 75.219.180.19  Rating: N/A |
Our average MPG after 52,000 miles is 6.4 This is in a 35,000# bus with an 8V71 engine and an Allison 740 automatic transmission towing a 3400# toad. When bus was stripped at start of conversion (27,000#) we were getting around 7.5. Back in the 80's when we had our 4106 (27,000#) with 8V71 and 4 speed manual, we avereaged 9.5. We never got less than 9.0 or better than 9.9 | ||
| Tim Brandt (Timb)
Registered Member Username: Timb Post Number: 563 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 99.122.63.218  Rating: N/A |
10 on the flats 6-7 in the hills 6-71 Nat 4 valve 5 speed spicer | ||
| Dallas Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 74 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 75.91.201.157 Rating: N/A |
Interesting readings. I want to thank everyone who replied, and hope for more replies soon. My reason for asking is to get a significant sample and see if I can't come up with averages per engine, transmission, bus model, weight, speed, etc. As for the mileage in my PD4103, I like to relate how we got 13.5 mpg when we got the bus. Of course it was almost all down hill from Versailles, Ky to Johnson City, Tn. and the bus was almost empty. Normally, we average right at 9.3mpg after 58,000 miles of owning this bus. We try to stay at 58 mph, either on the freeway or smaller highways, with gusts up to 65 mph when called for. 6l71 standard timing, N60 injsectors, Spicer 4 speed, 4.125:1 differential. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 1299 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 99.153.142.249 Rating: N/A |
This winter , workers willing , we will see if a bus can get better mileage thru more modern tech. The old DD only got 16 hp from each gallon of dead dino. The claim is a Series 50 (4 stroke with turbo) can do 20+ hp from the same gallon. That should mean the new VL 100 should be able to run 25% CHEAPER at our normal 70 cruise. The big problem is diesels are only efficient when heavily loaded , so the coach is being set up to run 1300-1400rpm at 70mph to increase the loading on the engine. The DDEC 4 is supposed to be flexible enough to accept the inputs required , another 3 -4 months we will know. Of course I will cheat like heck and install low rolling resistance tires , as well as synthetic lubes any place there OK to use. But I would sure like to see 14- mpg , although I hope I don't have to cross Texas Eastbound at 55mph with a 30 mph tailwind to get it. The power to weight 320hp,, 24,000 lbs should at least make it a fun mountain buggy! FF | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 310 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.96.183.25 Rating: N/A |
Ok so Jack's post got me to thinking so i dug out my fuel log and did some checking and this is what i have. I started this almost one year after we got the bus so it only covers the last six years. In that time we have driven 32,106 miles, used 4343.2 gallons of fuel at a cost of $12,686.00 which is an average of $2.92 a gallon. Least we ever paid was in the good old days of $1.96 fuel. Highest was $4.89 a gallon...ouch!!! That all works out to $2114.33 each year for fuel or $5.79 per day. Our mpg for all of that time is 7.39 this on the flats, in the mountains, headwind, tailwind, etc. My guage reads 1/4 tank low so i just figure on getting fuel about every 700 miles. Sometimes a little less, sometimes a little more, but i figure if i am getting 7 miles a gallon, 700 miles will be 100 gallons leaving me with 44 still in the tank. Most i have ever put in is 110.1 gallons and i had told my wife when we pulled in to get fuel that we would take 110 gallons...... i missed it by 1/10 of a gallon. :>) My 5A weighed 27,450 lbs. when we started fulltiming and last year when i weighed it it was between 29,000 and 30,000 lbs. Don't remember exactly where i wrote it down at the time. There is a good chance that i can weigh it again when we leave here on thursday. Will post the weight if i do. Plus i will post the weight of the jeep too. | ||
| Larry Baird (Airhog)
Registered Member Username: Airhog Post Number: 190 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 173.58.245.47  Rating: N/A |
MC-7 33,000 lbs 871-T (new) RTO, love that overdrive! 24.5's pulling a big Jeep from LA to Zion and back 1,100 miles running 75 MPH most the way I got 8 MPG. 75 MPH is around 1750 RPM. | ||
| Tom Christman (Tchristman)
Registered Member Username: Tchristman Post Number: 249 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 66.218.33.156 Rating: N/A |
With my transit bus (front end still like transit catching lots of wind) and with the 8V-71 turbo'd and air to air intercooled, get 4.5-6.0mpg cruising at 58mpg at 1850rpm. But-love the performance. Good Luck, TomC | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1717 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.195.124.20  Rating: N/A |
Fred - "My lower numbers are completely attributable to my lack of experience & chasing 80 mph most of the way." Unless you have a custom made ring & pinion you are probably pulling Fire Truck RPM's so fuel will not be the biggest expense. Even with the biggest diameter tires 80 is hard to get with out engine overspeed.. Actually, if you use Daris's calculator, the Bridgestone M726EL drive tire in 11R24.5 will give you 82.88 mph sitting on the governor @ 2100 rpm with the stock '06 pumpkin. Your Sportscar, w/ the Buffalo pumpkin, would run a little slower (78.14) at the same rpm. Dallas - 4104 owners should take note of your fuel mileage numbers, since the powertrains are identical. Good, real world data there! My revenue service experience corresponds to a lot of what others are saying: 40' 3-axle coach = 5 - 6 mpg 40' 2-axle coach = 7 - 8 mpg 35' coach, V8 = 8 - 9 mpg 35' coach, 6 = 9 - 10 mpg Overall averages, with all the related idling time that takes place with a revenue service coach in charter & line-haul operations. FWIW & HTH. . .  | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member Username: Dmd Post Number: 503 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 96.232.132.174  Rating: N/A |
I like this post, and i have kept pretty good records on the old girl. With the new 6V71 and auto trans 3.73 rears and a drop box out of a 5A, 22.5 tires. She weighs 22,000 lbs. In the first year now we have gone 5174 miles and used 562 gals. Avg is 9.2 All but 600 miles we were running with out a toad or trailer. Running fairly hard last august down I40 thru NC we got 8.75. Up 81 into PA and into NY we got 10.28. Towing CJ7 into hills of PA and back we got 8.7 Running against 20-25mph winds on the way to Arcadia Dec 29 09 running pretty hard and fast 7.97! (no toad) Running back home and not in a hurry 9.5-9.8 thru GA and VA and back down to 8.47 up and around to 81 up thru PA onto LI bad head winds and running faster. The best we ever got so far was treading lite on the pedal (due to the heat!)this summer out east and up to Port Jervis for the NE-GTG and back. Was running steady 60 which is real hard to do now. Got 11.6 avg over that 474miles. With the old 471 and 4.10rear we got steady 10mpg and once or twice close to 12. | ||
| Dallas Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 75 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 75.91.201.157 Rating: N/A |
Wow David, I didn't realize your Silversides was that much lighter than my 4103. We weigh in at just under 26K with full fuel tanks, all our junk and my tools. Lately we've added a toad.... we affectionately call "Mudflap" It's a 1989 VW Cabriolet convertible that weighs in at about 2500 lbs. It'll be interesting to see what difference the little Fahrvergnügen makes in power and mileage. Provided I get it running right first. | ||
| Gary Stacy (Stacytruck)
Registered Member Username: Stacytruck Post Number: 18 Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 184.100.33.66  Rating: N/A |
Not to be left out, living out here on the West Coast, I am in the mountains anyplace We go. So I am averaging a pretty solid 6 pulling a 5000lb. toad, so I guess I am pretty average to the crew. 8V71 4 speed auto. But I fantasize getting 7ish. (in my dreams). But wouldnt trade the old girl for a small farm in Texas.....g | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member Username: Dmd Post Number: 504 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 96.232.132.174 Rating: N/A |
Hey Dallas, we are pretty close to your 4103, we have a 3703. I am pretty sure alot of the chassis and running gear is close or the same. the "new" differential out of a MCI5A weighed 600 lbs less than the original 1948 unit and its monster leaf springs. We now are a GMCI 3703. Steer axle 6460lbs Rear axle 14580. That was with out tools and rear floor and insulation etc. I hate towing anything now as it affects performance even tho this was why we did the repower ha ha. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 1302 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 99.153.142.249 Rating: N/A |
Many a camp side discussion has questioned why the almost identical 4104 6-71 gets better mileage than the 4106 8v71. MY theory is engine loading.Although the 04 is more rounded fwd so had a lower CD. Diesels are always more efficient when running at a high load, the 6 will be working harder (using higher percentage of rated power) than the 8 will. A coach getting 10 mpg at 70 will be burning 7 gallons of fuel per hour . DD at best can create 16 hp from each gallon of fuel, so 16 x 7 =112 hp used. DD also are only efficient if run harder than 60% of their power . That's why DD made 1-2-3-4-6-8-12-16 cylinder power plants , to match the load to the output. SO my theory is that at 112hp the better higher loading on the less powerful 6 gives that extra 1 mpg over the 8. Vacation time, will see if anyone agrees in a couple of weeks. FF | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1719 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.195.124.20 Rating: N/A |
Gary - You should be able to pull 7 with your coach - does it have injectors larger than N60s? As a side note, is your MC-5 the one David Gregory had for sale? If so, it's a NICE coach!! Fred - Besides your theory about loading, I think that '06 owners tend to "push" a little harder on the throttle because they DO have the additional HP over the '04 drivers. As you well know, it's hard to keep a 4106 @ 60 mph, they want to run faster, usually 65+. OTOH, an '04 is just about running out of revs with a stock engine @ 60. As has been stated many times here and on the other bus boards, wind resistance wreaks havoc w/ fuel mileage, especially over 60 mph. So the "cleaner" aerodynamics of the '04, vs the "brick" '06 and later model buses, plus the fact it's running darned near peak efficiency, all contribute to the Tortoise's good (relatively) fuel economy. FWIW & HTH. . . | ||
| John Wooldridge (Moovin_on)
Registered Member Username: Moovin_on Post Number: 5 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 148.63.184.62  Rating: N/A |
8600 mile trip last fall towing 3400# car: 9.6 mpg average. 30000# MC7 with pre EGR S50, 10spd w overdrive. Usually drive around 60. John | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1384 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.211.150.68  Rating: N/A |
That is great, John! FWIW RCB | ||
| Phil Smith (Phil_smith)
Registered Member Username: Phil_smith Post Number: 54 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 24.116.71.31 Rating: N/A |
We'll soon find out what the avg is. Taking a 2500 mi trip in two weeks from Prescott,Az to Joplin Mo-Abilene Tx- Albuqerque NM then home. I think we've gotten around 6 in the past. Just barely started logging everything (after having the bus for 13 years !). '80 RTS/8v-71N/N65 A-timed/4:10. Around 29,900, I think(yrs.ago). We'll weigh it again to see. phil | ||
| Larry & Lynne Dixon (Larry_d)
Registered Member Username: Larry_d Post Number: 272 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 71.111.186.226  Rating: N/A |
For the trip last winter. Don't know the weight of the 1975- 4905 or the 1988 Ford Festiva but we traveled 6,337 miles and burned 934 gallons of Diesel for a whopping average of 6.78 mpg's, of which I am very happy. We didnot break any speed record, not going over 60. We tried to travel mostly secondary Hwy 's. To all the hip is getting better stapels out but still in the walker. Drive safe everyone Larry | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 317 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 75.208.183.191 Rating: N/A |
Ok here is the update on our weights. We have gained 1300 lbs. over the years, we are now at 28,750 lbs. for the bus and 3,650 lbs. for the jeep for a total of 32,400 lbs. | ||
| les marston (Les_marston)
Registered Member Username: Les_marston Post Number: 96 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 68.151.225.213 Rating: N/A |
We bought our 102 D 3 in las vegas, drove it to edmonton back to vegas and back to edmonton. Did not spare the ponies average milage was 10.2 MPG 60 series B500 alison Empty coach No seats Not converted yet except for 8 inch roof raise on the trip back from vegas | ||
| Gary Stacy (Stacytruck)
Registered Member Username: Stacytruck Post Number: 19 Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 96.39.165.199 Rating: N/A |
RJ, I looked all over for my emails from David. I believe his last name is Gregory, but not for sure. I got my bus in Roseburg, almost a year ago now, and I agree with you it is NICE.. I love it. As far as the injectors I would only guess they are 60s. I have not been in the engine at all yet, but the way it runs i am thinking it is bone stock. I still believe it will climb to 7 though. G | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1720 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.195.124.20 Rating: N/A |
Gary - I saw that coach at Busin'USA two years ago, David brought it up from Roseburg, he'd had it at his shop - Southern Oregon Diesel. IIRC, he was selling it for widow who loved the coach, but couldn't bear to use it after losing her husband. Too many memories. . . Anyway, you should get miles of smiles out of it! And to keep this thread on topic, weigh the coach, adjust the tire pressures to the weight per axle per the manufacturer's inflation tables, and take the extra weight out of your right shoe! Hard to keep a 5A from running 70+, but if you can keep it around 100kph, you should get 7 mpg or maybe even a little more. | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 322 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 75.209.232.8 Rating: N/A |
Just figured out my mileage for this last tank. Fueled up in Eureka Ca. on the 11th, ran over to I-5 and down to Fresno to meet RJ, then went to Bass Lake Ca. for 2 weeks then left this morning and ran down 99 to Kingsburg and fueled up. Drove a total of 794 miles what with all of our wandering around. Anyway it took 106.8 gallons and works out to 7.42 miles to the gallon. |