| Author | Message | ||
| C. K.. Sparks (Kozycade)
Registered Member Username: Kozycade Post Number: 34 Registered: 7-2010 Posted From: 71.161.44.79 Rating: N/A |
I have recently been sent information on a resort park and rv campground that is coming up for sale. It has 82 Acres of pure pleasure located a short distance from the Interstate which makes it great for us busnuts. Has room to expand if needed and lots of open air space for moving those forty and forty-five footers around with a country club atmosphere, a 9-hole golf course, 7 acre fishing pond, a new 32 site 50 amp RV park, tennis court, pool and a clubhouse. Facilities are first rate at a very reasonable price and owner financing is available. The question I was wondering is could a busnuts investment group be formed to purchase this for rally's, conversion seminars, Emergency assistance, travel support, a fix and repair spot for do it yourself full timers, the uses could be vast, as well as opened to the public with busnuts having first availability. I have been thinking about something like this for years but never came across the right piece of property to do this. Do keep in mind that due to a confidentiality agreement I can not be more specific as to the area or location. Was just wondering if this would work? Any thoughts from all you old timers out there that have been busnuts from birth? Ian, Being the new kid on the block here I do apologize if I am out of line here and if so please remove this post. ~slaps the back of his hand in advance just in case~ | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 47 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 71.105.184.70 Rating: N/A |
I think it is kinda a neat idea (though Im not an old timer.... Im just a newbie) It would be better if there were at least 4 of them all across the US in different areas, like one in the North, South, East and West. We could use wash facilities too for the buses | ||
| steve wardwell (Steve_wardwell)
Registered Member Username: Steve_wardwell Post Number: 94 Registered: 2-2010 Posted From: 75.203.29.3  Rating: N/A |
I would love to live in a bus community where the owned lots would be an acre or more, wooded, private, able to build a bus port on,with sensible regs, low yearly dues, warm temperatures and a lush greenery year round. (Message edited by steve wardwell on September 15, 2010) | ||
| Paul Lawry (Dreamscape)
Registered Member Username: Dreamscape Post Number: 685 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 64.40.216.125  Rating: N/A |
I think it's a great idea, but I wonder how it would work out as us bus nuts have so many different opinions. You might be able to gather some investors with a board of directors so everyone remains happy. Or do like Steve suggested, sell off the lots and have a Private Bus Community. | ||
| steve wardwell (Steve_wardwell)
Registered Member Username: Steve_wardwell Post Number: 95 Registered: 2-2010 Posted From: 75.203.29.3 Rating: N/A |
we own 2 lots now and would sell them both to get into a bus only comunity. We love bussin, we dislike the trailerparks and campgrounds as they are always small tight cramped living on top of each other.Even the RV resorts, upscale places are over $100,000 for a 50'x100'the worst ones have no trees at all.I'd rather stay at a WM....We are in fl. with a 50x80 and NC. with a 180'x360' but the NC. is only avail for 4 months in any given year (regs) | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1399 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.211.197.220  Rating: N/A |
Good idea. Practical...and without potential "issues"?...that is another question. (some of the reasons stated above). RCB | ||
| Grant Thiessen (Busshawg)
Registered Member Username: Busshawg Post Number: 270 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 206.45.93.160  Rating: N/A |
Depnding on location ,providing it is warm enough to ride a bike in the winter, I'd be into it. | ||
| C. K.. Sparks (Kozycade)
Registered Member Username: Kozycade Post Number: 35 Registered: 7-2010 Posted From: 71.161.44.79 Rating: N/A |
Thanks for the comments Keep them coming. Maybe we have a retired attorney that's a bus nut and could chime in. Little Bratty girl- Very good point and I would love 4-6 strategically located busnut camp-o-rees through out the U.S. but for now I would settle for one. As for as the wash facilities, they would be mandatory with a bus barn for service work and tools. I'm sure there's several busnuts that are retired and would love to help out folks doing service on there buses. Maybe you could talk Jack & Ian into putting up the investment and we could call it the "BNO BAR CAMP" Steve- I think you have been caught daydreaming. An acre would not be feasible for a 40' X 8' bus. Lots of common areas for everyone to use and certainly big enough lots for a small shed, picnic table, fire pit, and towed vehicle parking area. I see you have had experience with the RV resorts. Yes they are very expensive indeed as I have bought and sold several over the past years. RC- Very good points and I have thought of that also. My vision for something like this was to be a mix of both serving the public and private serving the busnuts. Certainly with the acreage I would thing in time that you could develop charter sites for the busnuts and have the existing 33 RV sites for the public. Grant- I hear you, and even agrre with you, but Im sure not everyone can be satisifed but Im thinking of something to better the busnut community. FInding the available land in a pleasant climate often isnt economical. My first thoughts were to start a charter member group of busnuts of 150 memberships or so for $5000.00. to raise the initial capital investment and have some operating capital. The actual sites could be auctioned off for who gets which one or a Chinese type of auction for laughs. Form a Board of Directors to draw up by-laws and regulations, elect officers and such. A member could lease his her/lot back to the camp-o-ree to rent out to the public for half the site fee going to the camp-o-ree for management of it. Each member would be responsible for the cost of building out there site upon approval of the board based on martials and codes. A membership yearly maintenance fee of 250.00 for up keep of common areas and then have buy in rates at $7500 and yearly fees of $500 for non charter members. Have a common mail stop for camp-o-ree members, swap meets, bus sales, only limited by ones imagination and the Board of Directors. I much rather would want to stay in a busnut owned co-op than to have to pay 50 a night. Just some of my thoughts. (Message edited by KozyCade on September 15, 2010) | ||
| steve wardwell (Steve_wardwell)
Registered Member Username: Steve_wardwell Post Number: 96 Registered: 2-2010 Posted From: 75.203.29.3 Rating: N/A |
I realize this doesn't work for this piece of prop......Yes I'm a dreamer but..we came close in NC.,acre+ lot has a Mtn. view less than 40K invested for finished RV lot septic/buried power/well/long gravel drive 4 month access It would seem to be possible to have a RV condo assn setup with 1 acre lots for a reasonable price somewhere where people would like to be.. | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 48 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 173.25.102.158 Rating: N/A |
Time Shares? | ||
| Christy Hicks (Christyhicks)
Registered Member Username: Christyhicks Post Number: 48 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 72.214.97.39 Rating: N/A |
I don't know anyone could possibly know if they were interested without having any idea of what part of the country it was in. Each busnut has an area that would be desirable to them, but one man's paradise is another man's. . .well, you know what! For instance, since our family is concentrated in central Oklahoma, we wouldn't be interested in ownership in a park in Maine, or Washington, or even Southern California, because we just don't plan on frequenting those areas more often than once every 2-3 years. I've heard these possibilities mentioned before, but it's never gone anywhere. . .everyone gets excited with the prospect, but when it came right down to it, very few actually would be willing to spare the funds to buy in, especially without a viable business plan in place and the details laid out. 150 investors at $5,000 a pop is a $750,000 investment, so that's quite a chunk of cash to manage. I maybe am not as visionary as most of the people here, but it looks to me like 3/4 of a million dollars would require a detailed business plan, lawyers, escrow accounts, reams and reams paperwork covering everything from permits and insurance to taxes, licenses, dealing with the DEQ, state and city authorities, to, well you name it, a lot of stuff. I guess if you were buying an existing park, some of that stuff would be taken care of, but when someone has ownership, aren't they also liable for fines, injuries etc? I mean, I understand more about for-profit parks where someone owns it, and people "buy" their spot from the park owners, with specific regulations as to how they can sell, what they can do with it, etc. As for a bus repair garage. . that'd be great as long as someone didn't, oh, take on a major repair that took several weeks while other were waiting.. . .etc, and there would have to be liability issues dealt with there as to equipment use and failures. . . I know I sound like a wet dishrag, but man, we just run a SMALL business and have to deal with all kinds of this stuff already. Looks to me like it would be more feasible for someone to purchase the property, and run it like other parks that do this, limiting buyers to bus owners, and what about the few who, for some insane reason, sell their bus and move to a small rig. . .possibly, ahem, a CLASS C???????????? Would they be booted out? Would there be some type of clause that say if people made such a ghastly move, since they originally owned a bus, they can stay??? ha ha. Curious mind, Christy Hicks | ||
| Dave Walker (Chrome_dome)
Registered Member Username: Chrome_dome Post Number: 81 Registered: 3-2010 Posted From: 67.174.144.159  Rating: N/A |
So this is what they meant by Shovel ready projects, LOL All seriousness aside, About a month ago there was someone that was going to have a $1.00 apiece Auction in Paradise, CA, up north of Sacramento. They were having problems renting out spaces in their campground and were going to auction it off by picking a name out of a hat. I believe there were 200 spaces. Looked it up but can't find it. Nice area though beautiful Country with very mild weather. I am sure if you called the city council they would know about it. It could be the west coast, "Busnut Heaven" Dave | ||
| C. K.. Sparks (Kozycade)
Registered Member Username: Kozycade Post Number: 36 Registered: 7-2010 Posted From: 71.161.44.79 Rating: N/A |
Christy- Very good points but your off base from the original post. Eighty percent of the charter investment would be to purchase an existing resort pork with all amenities included. You need the business plan to secure financing which would not be needed as the land and park would be purchased up front. There are many questions to lay out and answer, Could be a non profit, lots sold at established rates handled by the board of directors. Where three's a will there's a way and as I stated in an earlier post, everyone could not be pleased. As far as liability is concerned, the bus barn would not be a for hire business therefore it would be up to the individual owners. There are many parks through out the country that have been developed and set up including marinas, deeded campgrounds, and air parks. It all starts with a concept. Thank you for your insight. Cade | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1400 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.211.47.101 Rating: N/A |
Repeat...Idea has merit...Five grand is a chunk of money just now for many folks...me...  ...but who knows? I have been down a similar road ...partnership with a number of others, 15 as I recall...large Vail Ski Condo, years ago. Didn't work out so well in the end, but lotsa' fun for a few years... so am pretty leary. $$$$$ was considerably higher for initial investment; bottom line, we all lost our investment due to ...management(???). Long story...no regrets, I guess. Careful.......one step at a time, right? Astute "board" of influencers...and directors. (with credentials, I should recommend) FWIW RCB | ||
| Roger Baughman (Roger)
Registered Member Username: Roger Post Number: 193 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 69.232.78.56  Rating: N/A |
If it were run as a regular RV campground, the profit could be used to pay all or most of the expenses as well as give the investors a return. Just my thoughts. | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 1059 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 75.203.178.27  Rating: N/A |
Sounds just like what they already have here in a neighboring town. It's called Mt Olive Shores. They have phase 1 and phase 2. A few busnuts that frequent this board already reside there. A few bus conversions, a few pro conversions and a lot of high end MH's. Some have nothing more than a parking pad for the coach with maybe a storage building and some have a nice park model type home. Some even have covers over their coach making it a bus port. No golf course that I know of but very well kept and gated! Not sure of the prices but my guess is they go with the market. Each one is individually owned. Located in Polk City Fl and they also advertise their sites at RV shows with a welcome booth. | ||
| C. K.. Sparks (Kozycade)
Registered Member Username: Kozycade Post Number: 37 Registered: 7-2010 Posted From: 71.161.44.79 Rating: N/A |
Thanks for the comments folks. Makes for interesting reading. Roger- That is exactly one half of my point and the other being that being busnut owned the savings of lot ownership is put in the bank of the busnut and not the developer/builder. Ace- That is the the exact park that my Dad looked into and refused to pay 118,000 for what I think was about a third of an acre lot, The cheapest he found at that time was 87,OOO. I have a resort deeded property although much smaller lots they are 3000 a lot. I think the savings potential is very substantial, | ||
| Roger Baughman (Roger)
Registered Member Username: Roger Post Number: 194 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 69.232.78.56 Rating: N/A |
You will need someone to take charge of this. Some one with some realted experence in park management. You will also need a full time park management team to be hired. I think you need to guage the true interest by asking who is willing to make the $5,000.00 of larger or smaller amounts of investment to determine if there is enough money to get started. | ||
| Kevin Sweeney (Sweeney153)
Registered Member Username: Sweeney153 Post Number: 44 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 216.6.133.73  Rating: N/A |
I understand if you cant give an exact location, but if you want to gauge interest you have to give at least a general location. If it was an area I would frequent Then yes i would be interested if it was in BFE then no | ||
| C. K.. Sparks (Kozycade)
Registered Member Username: Kozycade Post Number: 38 Registered: 7-2010 Posted From: 71.161.44.79 Rating: N/A |
I will be able to give more information as permissible. Lets say its way east of the Mississippi and way South of the Mason Dixon Line where Canadian geese flock to for now and purposes of discussion. But with that said if there ws enough intrest there are parks throughout the US which are having a tough time and being put on the choping block. | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 49 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 71.105.184.70 Rating: N/A |
so are you now talking about selling individual lots and charging a yearly association fee for maintence..... sorta like a condo would? But you need the initial capitol investors to finance it? | ||
| C. K.. Sparks (Kozycade)
Registered Member Username: Kozycade Post Number: 39 Registered: 7-2010 Posted From: 71.161.44.79 Rating: N/A |
Teresa- Initial capitol investors=150 charter members with deeded lots From my earlier post- My first thoughts were to start a charter member group of busnuts of 150 memberships or so for $5000.00. to raise the initial capital investment and have some operating capital. The actual sites could be auctioned off for who gets which one or a Chinese type of auction for laughs. Form a Board of Directors to draw up by-laws and regulations, elect officers and such. To expand on that- AN association is formed, and owns all common grounds and public use amenities and controls/manages the member owned deeded lots which pays a yearly maintenance fee. A gated entrance for members lots and a public entrance for public sites and amenities as well as ambulance and fire service entries. Roger- Good points. An appointed manager could be a camp host as well as a couple of workers. THe current staff of this park is actually one fulltimeer and two part-timers which are all owners and I think they use one full time camp host position. Certainly as the vision expands changes and amendments would have to be made. We can leave the marketing up to the Happycamper brat to socilit members. GIve her some pom poms and a sign. (Message edited by KozyCade on September 16, 2010) | ||
| Christy Hicks (Christyhicks)
Registered Member Username: Christyhicks Post Number: 50 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 72.214.97.39 Rating: N/A |
I should have made it more clear, when I was speaking of a business plan, I was indicating that likely, most investors with an extra $5,000 laying around with which to play, would want to see some sort of a business plan, such as average occupancies over the last three years, three years worth of operating budget, current debt load, a breakdown of purchase price, closing expenses, attorneys fees, what happens to the money if the deal falls through as far as there are always upfront expenses to consider just for the due diligence part of doing the research on the property and business....those types of things. I realize you are not going to a bank to borrow money, but in a sense, the investors are the bank & I would think it would be a stretch to find 150 of them that actually would put up the $5,000 when all was said and done. Obviously, you've narrowed down the location enough to give people a better sense of that, but I would ask if this park is evidently not currently for sale, hence the secrecy? So, are you saying that the 5,000 would include ownership of a site, or just joint ownership of the "common grounds"? | ||
| steve wardwell (Steve_wardwell)
Registered Member Username: Steve_wardwell Post Number: 98 Registered: 2-2010 Posted From: 75.201.69.90 Rating: N/A |
150 people invest and 32 lots? how does this work? oh yeah "new" lots my error,there would hopefuly be a lot more old lots so the total might be around 200 or so ????? (Message edited by steve wardwell on September 17, 2010) | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1404 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.211.155.130 Rating: N/A |
Proverbs---- Chapters 14,15,16, among others ,is a great beginning place....with special note to 15:22...,11:14...,20:18 FWIW and Best wishes RCB | ||
| Roger Baughman (Roger)
Registered Member Username: Roger Post Number: 195 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 69.232.78.56 Rating: N/A |
Another thought, sell shares at $1.00 each. That way other bus nuts without the $5,000. could still get in. And maybe end up with more capital investment funds. | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1922 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 174.89.177.97  Rating: N/A |
Ask those who conduct business with busnuts... You can't sell 150 t-shirts to busnuts, never mind shares in a resort. We are cheap, and often broke. And those of us who aren't, don't invest in business concepts that were drawn up via a BBS discussion. But, it's fun dreaming! happy coaching! buswarrior (Message edited by buswarrior on September 17, 2010) | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
Registered Member Username: Niles500 Post Number: 971 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 173.78.39.41 Rating: N/A |
Touche BW touche | ||
| steve wardwell (Steve_wardwell)
Registered Member Username: Steve_wardwell Post Number: 100 Registered: 2-2010 Posted From: 75.203.54.107 Rating: N/A |
something like this might be more appealing to those of us who only have our buses and not houses like us........living in a bus is the ultimate downsizing.. another thought: Having a golf course isnt cheap although they make a nice yard to live next to.Balls do come flying out from time to time (no damage so far) it has to be mowed daily, greens preped...on and on $$$...2 people full time............just sayin....... (Message edited by steve wardwell on September 17, 2010) (Message edited by steve wardwell on September 17, 2010) | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 52 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 71.105.184.70 Rating: N/A |
Most bus nuts also vacation in their buses and use campgrounds....... right? So why not have a campground to go to that other bus nuts are at and buses are welcomed with good facilities for buses? People may not want to spend $5000 but maybe $40.00 per night and also have other places to go to depending on the season. Maybe this would work out better by making some sort of an offer to existing campgrounds that are in different parts of the country but could use extra traffic and make it some sort of a club like Sam's Club or whatever...... just a thought. | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 150 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 69.171.161.30  Rating: N/A |
Would it have a barn....? (jus' axing) | ||
| C. K.. Sparks (Kozycade)
Registered Member Username: Kozycade Post Number: 40 Registered: 7-2010 Posted From: 71.161.44.79 Rating: N/A |
Thanks again for the comments and now a couple of my own. I posted the original question as a concept to feel folks out, not as a direct question specific to any given set of parameters. Yes part of my family has been involved for many decades in campground, park, and marina ownership. I have been a member of a resort based on these ideas for over 30 years. As the post has moved toward being more specific and to the point I will address it in that fashion. Jack- Would only be limited to the board of directors and owners association. My vision would be not only a barn but a secured storage area. Teresa- Very good points. Something that seems to be lost in the concept here is the separation of the private busnut side and the existing business that comes from the public. The income from one side of the business could support all operating expenses if operated the same. As for busnuts not wanting to invest in a deeded lot, they could use the vacated lots by owners vacationing or own long term travel who choose to allow there site to be rented to the public. This type of ownership is springing up in several different areas. Use also make a good point about Sam's Club which had to start form a vision. Steve- I agree with your comment and as I have a house, I also have 3 properties to travel to so it not only serves the full timer wanting to do the ultimate downsizing, but to those individuals like myself that want a known site I can travel to and know it will be vacant. For the golf course, it is already developed and provides the income and has the equipment and facilities in place. Buswarrior- This type of concept is not share ownership. It is deeded lifetime site ownership where theres a difference and it is not time share based. I realize that busnuts including myself are often cheap and broke. Having a site to stay in without daily, weekly, or monthly fees makes sense to me while having a place to stay and enjoy. To those that aren't, many groups of people have come together from discussion over a BBS board in the past years to not draw up per say, but to gain ideas and insights to develop a concept. Roger- That's a valid point to consider although Im not sure you would want to sell shares due to the bookkeeping and shareholders meeting which would have to be involved. The other busnuts could simply use a vacant deeded site or the public sites at a reduced rate. RCB- I will make it appoint to read the chapters you have mentioned this week. Steve- You misread the post as it has proceeded through. The 32 lots would be public access sites and reduced rates for visiting busnuts. The 150 busnut sites would be in addition to the 32 and would have to be developed on acreage that's is expandable. Depending on the lay of the land you can get 10-15 sites per acre in campground development. There is about 15 acres to expand on without upsetting current operations give or take. Christy- All very wise business points. Keep in mind though that the investment is not a business investment per norm. Its an investment in a deeded site lot. As for the due diligence part of doing the research on the property and business, that has been done. Secrecy is not a term used in business ventures and investments. As stated in my initial post, the park is coming up for sale, is currently for sale, and the secrecy you mention is specific when I was asking about a concept. In fact I signed a confidentiality agreement, not secrecy, therefore I was limited on what information could be released. When I am permitted to and released from the agreements I will be more than happy to provide any and all information I can. Ownership would be for the site. Common grounds cannot be owned individually therefore an association is set up and the board of directors handle the business. With that said, this post was moving quickly out of the concept of feasibility into a more direct approach. I have spoke to my broker and amended the confidentiality agreement to disclose the location and name of park. It is located near the Fla./Ga state line just off Interstate 75 in Ashburn Ga. The website of the park is www.waneelake.com Sorry for the long read. Cade | ||
| Mike Eades (Mike4905)
Registered Member Username: Mike4905 Post Number: 207 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 70.127.151.164 Rating: N/A |
I am president of our home owners assc. in fl and we might buy our mobile home park. We have a not for profit corp and it works great in fl. We carry mal practice insurance for the board of directors. We getting liability insurance fro the common areas. We have a live on property couple who will be the mangers. I don't know about GA law but I have worked with this type of thing in the past. The biggest problem is the things not in writing. Don't leave anything unsaid. Every investorgets copies of everything. | ||
| Justin Griffith (Justin25taylor)
Registered Member Username: Justin25taylor Post Number: 68 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 209.30.130.50 Rating: N/A |
I would be most interested. | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1410 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.211.235.41 Rating: N/A |
Food for thought...perhaps. http://www.rvparkstore.com/rv_lots_for_sale.htm OR...perhaps this http://www.rvproperty.com/rv_lots_for_sale.htm...to name a couple. FWIW RCB (Message edited by Chuckllb on September 19, 2010) |