| Author | Message | ||
| Jim Wilkerson (Wagwar)
Registered Member Username: Wagwar Post Number: 122 Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 99.109.187.242 Rating: N/A |
I'm considering a Progressive Industries EMS-HW50C surge protector for the bus. Does anyone have any experience with these? Can you suggest a better system? Also, I have 50 amp service in the bus and I have a quality 50 amp extension cord. However, there are times when a park has only 30amp at the pedestal. The PO provided an extension cord with the appropriate 30 amp male on the pedestal end and a 50 amp female on the RV end. On the RV end only one pole is hot (it is not split). Since the PO has done a few other questionable things electrically, I thought it might be a good idea to ask if this adapted cord was OK to use? Thanks! | ||
| George M. Todd (George_todd)
Registered Member Username: George_todd Post Number: 1115 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 99.39.12.79 Rating: N/A |
Jim, IMNSHO, I wouldn't spend money on a surge protector. That said, the cord should be OK to use as is, and if the female end of the 30 Amp cord is removable, (not a pre-fab cast assembly) consider opening it up, and putting a little piece of #10 stranded wire between the X and Y terminals. The black wire in the cord is connected to one or the other now. The two hot terminals in a 50 Amp recept. are called X & Y. The other two are N & G, which are self-explanatory. This will give you both sides of your panel hot with a total of 30 Amps of 120 VAC, and no 240. G | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 1194 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 67.142.130.12  Rating: N/A |
I agree with George on both counts. -sean http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com | ||
| Jim Shepherd (Rv_safetyman)
Registered Member Username: Rv_safetyman Post Number: 316 Registered: 1-2004 Posted From: 67.142.130.20 Rating: N/A |
Progressive Industries has an excellent reputation for "after sale" support, from everything I see and hear. In addition their product seems to meet all of the claims -- again from hearsay. The product has two forms of protection: surge and voltage. The surge seems pretty straight forward and they use acceptable MOS technology (as I recall from a post by Sean some time ago). My concern has always been voltage/wiring issues. I always check each leg of the source before I plug in. My check is for proper wiring and acceptable voltage using my trusty "Good Governor" 3 in 1 meter (no longer manufactured). My concern is what happens AFTER I make the original check. We have been at FMCA events where the provided power is terrible (voltage and wiring issues). Seeing both George and Sean (my heroes) question the worth of this kind of protection catches me by surprise. Would you guys expand on why this kind of protection is not on your list of must haves? Jim Shepherd Evergreen, CO 1985 Eagle 10 with Series 60 and Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission Bus Project pages: http://www.rvsafetysystems.com/busproject.htm Blog: http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/ (Message edited by rv_safetyman on October 14, 2010) | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 1195 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 67.142.130.14 Rating: N/A |
Jim, I generally think that both the surge protection as well as the wiring/voltage protection provided by these sorts of devices is overpriced for what is provided, and, moreover, leads to bad habits like connecting to park power without checking it first. I recommend inexpensive point-of-use surge protectors for sensitive electronics, $10-$15 at any hardware store. I also recommend simply unplugging the coach during nearby electrical storms. With regards to voltage issues, I confess that I don't worry about it because my inverter has fully adjustable settings for this -- if park voltage drops (or surges) the inverter will drop it and begin inverting. In specific, I find the non-adjustable settings of the Progressive to be much too restrictive. I frequently have set my incoming low voltage limit to 96 volts, and, particularly in Mexico, there were times when we could not even get a little charge into the batteries without doing so. In short, I favor carrying a decent voltmeter, about $15, and religiously checking power before connecting to it, then double-checking the voltage after plugging in and firing up whatever you were going to run (battery charger, air conditioner, etc.) if you don't have an inverter that just takes care of this automatically. That said, other than simply feeling that they are not a good value, I don't have any concerns about these devices. -Sean http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 1196 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 67.142.130.14 Rating: N/A |
Jim, Following up, I must say that you have an excellent memory. It took me a while to find it, but the post you referred to discussing the MOVs (not MOS) is here , on the "other board." What I wrote then about this device was
I did say then that it had the potential to keep some folks out of trouble. I also mentioned in that post the limitations of the voltage settings. -Sean http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com | ||
| Jim Shepherd (Rv_safetyman)
Registered Member Username: Rv_safetyman Post Number: 317 Registered: 1-2004 Posted From: 67.142.130.37 Rating: N/A |
Sean, thanks for the rehash. In your first post, it almost sounded like you felt it did not provide proper protection. In the previous threads we got into the discussion about inverter protection. I have a good Trace FSW inverter that protects the circuits connected to it. However, some of my circuits are not wired to the inverter. For example, my ACs are wired to the main breaker box. They would not be protected. I still shudder at an incident at the Indio FMCA event a few years ago. I went outside and measured about 60 volts and yelled at folks not to plug in. A fellow came out with a volt meter and he measured something like 170 volts. We quickly called the facility folks and they found that the wiring had been hooked up incorrectly. As you know, I am electrically challenged, but I suspect there was some three phase issue. BTW, the two circuits would shift back and forth from very low to very high voltage. As I say, I am very careful to check each connection before I close the breaker in the bus. I even check my own circuit each time to make sure I have not lost a neutral or some other problem. I just am not comfortable that something will not change AFTER I plug in. Jim Shepherd Evergreen, CO 1985 Eagle 10 with Series 60 and Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission Bus Project pages: http://www.rvsafetysystems.com/busproject.htm Blog: http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/ | ||
| George M. Todd (George_todd)
Registered Member Username: George_todd Post Number: 1116 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 99.39.12.79 Rating: N/A |
Jim, I think the problem in Indio was an open neutral, as "about 60 Volts" is 60 volts less than 120 Volts, and "something like 170 Volts" is nearly 60 volts over 120 Volts. This means that the high current leg will be low in voltage, while the low current leg will be high in voltage. The voltage will change wildly as the current changes. IMNSHO, air conditioner compressor motors, and condenser/evaporator motors don't need surge protection. How many of all of us nuts have had a lot of sensitive electronics fail AT ONE TIME, from a verified surge? The answer is not very many... I would take Sean's advice, and unplug the bus before an electric storm gets too close. G | ||
| J.C.B. (Eagle)
Registered Member Username: Eagle Post Number: 162 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 32.179.51.101  Rating: N/A |
I have had a Model HW50B for about ten years and it has saved me twice and I can not say enough about their customer service. The first time at home here we had an electrical storm at night and had a couple of things in the home fried but the Bus was fine except it fried the board in the EMS. Called and they shipped a new board at N/C. About 8 months ago it quit working and they provided information how to trouble shoot it and when I unplugged the cord for the external read out panel one of the little wires in the receptacle was broken. Again they shipped another board at N/C. | ||
| Jim Shepherd (Rv_safetyman)
Registered Member Username: Rv_safetyman Post Number: 318 Registered: 1-2004 Posted From: 75.220.99.139 Rating: |
Got a call from a friend who does not post on these boards. He made a couple of points that may be worth thinking about. First, he said that he had worked with some installations that had problems with the generator wired into the system. He said that heavy start loads could make the generator voltage drop below the low voltage threshold. Secondly, he pointed out that the units are not UL listed. Not sure how big of a deal that is. George, thanks for the information. I have heard of several folks who have had significant damage to various electrical components because of wiring problems. All hearsay, as I have not talked directly to them. Could be one person and I have heard the story over and over. My friend did make a good point about connecting to the post. During the connection process, if all breakers are closed, it is extremely important to make sure the neutral (and ground?) connection is made first (or at the SAME time) and then the hot legs. He has made connectors with the hot legs terminals trimmed a bit so that they connect last in the plugging in process. In my case, I always open the Bus 50 AMP breaker on the input line and do not close it until I have checked the voltage and wiring and made a full connection. Once all of that is done, I close the breaker to apply power to the coach. Jim Shepherd Evergreen, CO 1985 Eagle 10 with Series 60 and Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission Bus Project pages: http://www.rvsafetysystems.com/busproject.htm Blog: http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/ |
