| Author | Message | ||
| Adam P (64.236.221.6)
Rating: N/A |
But I don’t mind a short “dog-nose” conventional school bus…. Let me introduce myself and explain… Hello all, I’m AdamP, a 30’s something technical engineer from Georgia, (originally NY/NJ) and you folks have a really great site here!!! I’m new at this “bus-nut” thing, but really enjoy learning about it!!! I would not have thought it such a group hobby. But then again, most would not think of collecting and restoring antique, two wheeled walk-behind tractors either…. I’m into old tractors!!! I have about 12 ranging in size from small “walkers” to full on ag machines. I (probably like many of you) started thinking about a conversion, when I started looking into the RV world. It was my wife that thought an RV would be a great way to go to the tractor shows, and also be used as a tow vehicle to tow either the tractors we own, or our 1964 Cadillac should we go to a car show. I have a very cool wife!!! Anyway, I started looking at RV’s, the smaller ones, under 100K, and while I liked their efficient use of space, they really lacked in the towing capacity. A small size is important to me, as I might have to maneuver though a show ground (with other people setting up there tractors on and off of trailers, and the like.) Then to usually weave to the back of a parking lot and drop off the trailer, and be able to set up at the fair grounds campsite. Lots of tight weaving around…. I remember being in a BT Cruiser RV (a small class “C”) at a dealership and after looking at the price, I thought, I could do this!!! And maybe even get that “Coachman” layout that I like, (Queen size bed in the rear facing forward, with a separate bathroom and shower, one on each side, small kitchen and dinette) without the sagging overhang…. With room maybe for only two other people. OK then, we are thinking about a conversion!!! And my wife once again is on my side!!! So now what? I started looking at donor shell body’s and after thinking about maintenance and safety, I ruled out a box truck.. School buses seemed perfect but too big. Ahh the search goes on and I find the “short bus”… though maybe to small. So, after a little more looking, I want a mid size bus with seven to eight rows, or windows… I was so exited, this size will be perfect!!! I had ideas in my head (and still do) of how it would look. Then my heart sank (no offence folks)…. I found the “Skoolie”…. What a sad day…. How could a group of people be so proud of shoddy work, that took them forever to figure out how to mount a shed door on the side of a purple hippy bus with a Volkswagen on the roof still baffles me. Then I found you guys, a sign of relief!!! And, hopefully some new friends!!! I’ve read through the archives and found some good opinions on school buses. I actually will find a bit of time off the road, and might even find myself traveling across a plowed field to pick up a tractor, (you know us tractor nuts are always looking!) I couldn’t dream of crossing over furrows in a motor coach… OK, at this point, you have an idea of what I thinking of. Also, I want to create a way to diminish that Skoolie look. My idea was to make it look more like a nice truck or rig with chrome wheel covers, and bumpers, a nice truckers sun visor, maybe a bug shield, and the removal of the school lights. A nice paint job in the order of metal flake champagne with modern looking RV graphics. Do you think this would look good??? I do plan on paneling over the unused windows from the outside and possibly replacing all the windows with RV glass. Not sure on that yet. Also, (and I know a few of you have had starter experience with school buses) I am looking for thoughts on body, chassis, and drive train. Like what bus is the safest??? Is a conventional safer than a splat type or am I just nervous about a snub nose for no reason??? Are Blue Birds really built better??? Any good books that you like for basic diesel understanding??? I figure I ought to ask now, rather than later, you know?! Are there any really good parts catalogs out there to help me understand more??? What do you guys do about co-pilot chairs and three point safety belts??? Has anyone ever seen a classy, well done school bus??? Maybe have a link to it??? Also what RV parks would not allow a rig like I’m thinking of??? Even Disney will allow school buses in there RV park… Anyway, I know this was a really long post, and maybe not the best bus / group match up, but at this point you guys seem to be my best bet!!! I really hope I did not offend anyone. I deep down don’t think I did, as your coaches Are really beautiful!!! I really look forward to your replies, and I’m sure to have more questions, AdamP PS Hopefully I’ll be able to return the favors… I know how to weld, and how to paint and restore a tractor. Who knows, maybe some of you fine folk have an old tractor you’d like to see running again!!!!! | ||
| Vern1 (216.141.73.43) Rating: N/A |
Greetings, Ahhh....a person trying to do the same thing I am after, kinda. I had read a good bit on various forums and personal web pages about conversions, so I wasn't a complete newby at it. This part can not be gone over enough times - get all the info you can upfront! I do paintball and need something to take to these sometimes way-off-the-road locations for tournaments. I spent a lot of time looking at various offerings before I remembered my school years and riding a school bus off and on for 12 years thru all kinda good and bad weather. Then I also remembered being able to count on my fingers the times one broke down - VERY SELDOM. Granted, fewer breakdowns can be attributed to maintenance schedules for these fleets. Money is not a driving factor for me - purpose built is the object and I have always for the most part built my own toys. I could have went for any shell that met my requirements, mainly somewhat offroad capable. I found a freshly retired 66 passenger International schoolie with gas engine, auto, power steering and air brakes that fit my needs. It's not near the chore driving around you would think it is. It drives more like a really really big SUV..... I was discussing the project with some friends at work when one of them mentioned he had a 28' fifth wheel that had some recent roof damage he wanted to get rid of. We negotiated a deal and he delivered it to the house. Basically, I now have most of the ingredients for conversion. I do plan to remove the bus windows and reskin the area using the trailer windows, door and awning. Planning on cleaning up the outside and making it more "conforming" by stripping the school bus trappings and applying a nice paint job. Most of the additional parts have been ordered and are in transit. As a bonus, someone offered me what I paid for the 5th wheel for just the shell, so I have some more monsy to get closer to completion. It is also a good thing to have the parts in hand so you can fit as you go to eliminate problems later. Hope this helps. | ||
| ED-NJ (67.85.224.113) Rating: N/A |
Go to the archives. look up "A new type of bus" posted by SLO 12-31-02. # 57 doing a skoolie cadilac key word search. That Skoolie would look cool towing your 1964 Cadillac. | ||
| John Feld (204.184.224.2) Rating: N/A |
You got the right idea, look for what you need, not what you want. A coach is not suited for off-road plowed fields, or real tight manuvers in parking lots with a tow behind. A off time overlooked 'bus' is the shuttle bus. They come in several lengths and are resonable cost. A search on ebay motors will offer a great selection of different body styles. One concern would be the gears used as you want highway gears. The wide body is a plus when converting. The frame under will give the off road support you need and adding a tow package to a framed bus is not a problem. We currently have a mini-bus that tows a trailer for our local scout troop and it does a fine job. John 4104 | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat) (68.7.217.217)
Rating: N/A |
Before you decide on a front engine school style bus, try driving one for a few minutes. They are amongst the noisest things going down the road, at least to the driver. I had one for a short while (dog nose) and would NEVER own one again for that reason. I bought a Superior rear engine as my second bus and it was so quiet that it was almost dangerous because you'd never hear a thing if the engine went haywire. It was quite nice until my ex-wife's boyfriend drove it into a mountainside and totalled it. (She got it in the settlement, so I kinda smirked but I was sad at all the work I put into it gone "poof"...) Now I have a Crown mid- engine and it's definitely noisier than the pusher but definitely tolerable especially since I've built a bulkhead just forward of the engine, dividing the bus into a nice cushy driver's and "kick-back" area forward of the bulkhead, and kitchen, work area, bath, bedroom behind it. Some of the newer front engine busses are quieter than the standard dog nose skoolie, but check it first before you buy, especially if you take long trips and you care about quiet. Of course if you're deaf and don't mind a 10 hour vibrating body massage, maybe a dog-nose is the one for you!! Cheers Gary | ||
| AdamP (172.147.8.226) Rating: N/A |
!!!ED-NJ, I can't find the link your suggesting. | ||
| FAST FRED (67.75.112.79) Rating: N/A |
May I sugest you contemplate getting a standard 4wd box truck of about 30 ft. Remove everything but the cab (whatever box it came with) and simply fair in an Airstream behind the cab. As long as you start with a highway truck (not a crane truck) you should be able to locate air cab air ride . Stick ot slushpump , gas or diesel the unit should be newer than a 95 and should cost well under 10K (probably 5K). Towing anything sane will never be noticed , and the Airstreams from the 60's and early 70's are usually under 5K . For a bit of husteling for 10K you could be on the road , and never fear a farmers field , after the rain or not!! We drive a 67 Olds D88 Convirtible (455 /Th 400)in FL for the winter, nothing like a REAL car! I have a walking tractor ( a guess from the 30's or 40's)that uses Bradly accessories and has a Kohler engine , with external magnito. Yours for free , if you pass thru CT any summer. Think out of the box , why convert anything when a fine Airstream has it all for a few K? FAST FRED | ||
| two dogs (67.30.23.110) Rating: N/A |
if you are going to pull 6,000# cadilacs,& 6&7 thousand pound tractors & want to go cross fields occasionally....Big trucks are cheap now ,400 horse motor a/c ...put a box" on the back for your house &pull tractors up any hill....(example '95 anteater 400 horse cat engine,10 speed trans. 10,000 dollars I have a popin' john in the paper for sale now | ||
| David & Lorna Schinske (Davidschinske) (64.24.236.110)
Rating: N/A |
Adam, Public Campgrounds (State/Fed/National/COE) tend to allow skoolies in. The good thing about the bluebird buses is not many campgrounds would turn a way a flatnosed Bluebird (which they tend to think of as "Wanderlodges"). We looked at a bluebird conversion before we bought the Eagle 05. We couldn't tell that it was a schoolbus. It looked great. The guy used wrecked travel trailers for parts. Lorna BTW, we have a 1949 Ford 8N tractor. Any sources for parts would be nice. This is a work tractor, not a show tractor. I have to hide it because so many folks keep asking to buy it. | ||
| ED-NJ (67.85.224.113) Rating: N/A |
I just went over here to the left of this page under UTILITIES went to keyword search and typed in "skoolie cadilac" and hit search then I went to page #6 post #57. Maybe one of the computer quru's can tell you an easier way to the archives, HELP IAN. By the way theres alot of posts about schoolies in the archives.. | ||
| ED-NJ (67.85.224.113) Rating: N/A |
http://busgallery.home.att.net/ Just some pix's | ||
| jmaxwell (66.42.92.18) Rating: N/A |
Adam: Barth made a commuter bus, I think about 30-32' , diesel pusher, a very neat looking bus, and if built anything like the old Barth Motorhomes, it has to be well built. A few months ago there was one on e-bay for sale that had been converted and it was a very nice looking unit. As I recall the owner used it for much the same purpose that u have in mind. He pulled an enclosed trailer behind it going to shows. I have seen these buses in a few mid-west cities, St. Louis for one, and many cities in the Western states. I know they had them in Salt Lake City, Portland, Eugene, Or., and Albequerque NM. I believe they might fit into what u are considering. | ||
| Derek (24.66.241.23) Rating: N/A |
ED-NJ: I believe you're talking about this one: http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/11/3724.html? If you aren't, let me know. Right click on the right frame (The one with the messages) and copy the URL. That is the page your topic is on. | ||
| Phil Dumpster (12.230.214.167) Rating: N/A |
If I were to do a skoolie, I'd start with a Wayne Lifeguard body with International running gear, either the 444 V8 or the DT466 inline six, from late 70s through 80s vintage. Nice boxy shape, decent interior headroom, good running gear. To quiet the machine down (remember, they are designed to haul loud school kids to and from school, hence silence was not a priority) I'd hunt down and seal every hole between the passenger area and the engine compartment as well as the floor. Insulation would be installed under the floor, and thick carpet padding and thick foam-backed carpet on the interor side of the firewall as well as the floor of the rest of the bus. A pair of "fender liners" to be installed above the front wheels between the wheels and the frame rails, with provision to make a seal against the fiberglass flip-down hood would have to be fashioned. You could use cardboard for a base form, covered with layers of fiberglass and resin on both sides, and painted with pickup truck bedliner material (spray-on kind, use as undercoating on the rest of the bus as well). The interior of the hood should also be covered with suitable insulation. You'd have to construct a new entrance door that seals the opening tightly when closed. All existing passenger windows would have to be removed and skinned over with the same guage steel sheet as the bus is currently skinned with, and double-pane RV windows installed where you want windows. All of the bus interior would have to be removed, foam insulation installed and the interior design of your choice put in. For exterior aesthetics, chrome plated steel wheels with matching center caps would work wonders to dress up the outside, and they're generally cheaper than Alcoas. A nice conservative paint job would also be mandatory if you want to stay in a private campground, otherwise it's the government lands, rest areas and Wal Mart parking lots. I'd probably go ahead and leave the upper school bus lights in, but on the rear wire the red lights to work with the brake lights and the yellow lights to work with the turn signals, with the yellow lights towards the outside corners of the coach so they line up with the stock brake and turn signals lamps on the rear. On the front, put the yellows on the outside corners, and wire them to work with the turn signals. Dispose of the red lamps and put 1 million candlepower off-road lamps in their place, for off road use of course. | ||
| ED-NJ (67.85.224.113) Rating: N/A |
http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/233/3173.html that wasn't it let me try this | ||
| Johnny (67.241.166.80) Rating: N/A |
I'm converting a Ford B-700 chassis (GVWR 25,500), Thomas-bodied, gas-engine (460) long nose. Yes, they're noisy, but some things can help: First, Phil is absolutely right--seal all holes, and add plenty of sound deadener. I used spray undercoating on the firewall of mine (requires engine removal), which made a BIG difference. I haven't coated the inside of the bonnet yet, & already noticed a HUGE difference. Fender liners sound like a good idea...gotta think about that! Another big noise-maker on mine was the Spicer 5-speed tranny, due to straight-cut gears. There is not much that can be done about the actual noise, other than keep it from entering the bus--I plan to spray-undercoat the floor above the trans, & add an extra layer of carpet insulation padding to the "cab" area to reduce noise. Automatics generally won't have this problem...but then you're stuck with a slushpump.  I like to row my own gears, so I'm keeping the 5+2, gear whine and all. One often-overlooked noisemaker is where the rubber meets the road. Many school buses still run bias-ply tires--some still running nylon-bias 10.00-20's on split rims with tubes, & many use fairly agressive traction tires on the drives (and I've even seen them on the steer axle). While 22.5" wheels can be used, that costs money.  I was lucky enough to get a bus that has 22.5" Budd 10-lug wheels, but 10.00R20's are available. If you value a quieter, smoother ride above all else, go with 11R22.5's (standard big-truck tires) in a highway-rib tread all around. Since I like to boondock, & rib tires offer almost no traction on even wet grass, I plan to run all-season tread in front & on the outer duals, with a mild traction tread on the inner rear duals. If you have tube-type 20's, CARRY A SPARE TIRE & TUBE! Even if you can't change it, many road service companies don't carry 20" tires, & almost none carry inner tubes. Finally, there's one unique to long-noses: the COOLING FAN! Many have a fixed-pitch fan, with 7, 8, or even 9 or 10 blades. This is incredibly loud, even at idle, & sounds like a Cessna at full-power on the highway. A clutch fan is much quieter, but may not be easy to find. I replaced my fixed fan with a big flex fan. It isn't as quiet as a clutch fan, but is MUCH quieter than the old one. Electrics may work, but I don't know they'd move enough air to keep a bus cool. If mine runs hot, it will get an electric pusher as an auxiliary. OK, find-a-bus tips: First, I looked high and low--but EVERY diesel I found (and a good many gassers) was attatched to a slushpump. Most diesels I saw were square-nose IH 1700's, with either 444 V8's (usually no turbo), or DT466 or DT408 inline-sixes. All are good engines. However, there are 2 diesels you want to RUN AWAY from: the IH 9.0 litre, & the 8.2 Detroit Diesel. The former I'd expect only in an IH; the latter would likely be most common in a GMC, but could be in anything. GMC's could also have a Cummins or Cat diesel--all OK engines. Fords could have several different diesel powerplants: the 7.8 New Holland, 5.9 Cummins B, maybe the 8.3 Cummins, or a Cat. There's another New Holland, but I don't remember the size. Gassers: IH would be a 304 (totally inadequate), a 345 (probably the most common), or a 392 (best of the bunch). All are externally identical. GMC would have either a small-block (probably a 350, really not enough), a 366 big-block (kinda marginal, especially with an auto), a 427 Rat (tough, OK power, not a bad choice), or a 454 (my choice). Some real relics (mid-70's or older) may have the 305 V6...durable (as in, 500,000+ miles if maintained, even in a bus), but VERY slow. Most 80's-up Fords (including mine) would probably have the 2 or 4-bbl carb'd 370 Lima big-block--an OK but not-very-powerful engine. Some older ones (early-80's or late-70's) will have the 429--more grunt than the 370, externally-identical to it. Another choice (my choice, and what my 84 now has) is the 460. It bolts in place of a 370 or 429, makes more power, & has about the same fuel burn. Build it right, & it will outlast you. Parts are abundant. Some may have the huge 534 industrial engine (though I've never seen it in a bus)--big, heavy, thirsty, OK power in the only one I ever drove, very durable. Kinda an oddball, though. |