| Author | Message | ||
| Jeffrey (68.118.176.182)
Rating: N/A |
Well our conversion came to an abrupt end the other day as the owner of the yard I was renting had it ripped apart for scrap metal. I was wondering if anyone knew of a "blue book" or of some other way that people arrive to a legally recognised value of a bus shell? The bus was an awesome 4905 that FF directed me to, no smoke & super strong & straight. BTW Fast Fred, do you still have contact w/ Frank as I am trying to get some people who can vouch for the condition of the bus. Please email me and let me know how I can can contact him. Thank You Jeffrey | ||
| two dogs (66.90.213.2) Rating: N/A |
that's terrible...do you have rent receipts or canceled checks for the rent.... | ||
| Johnny (65.224.20.31) Rating: N/A |
Do you need a legal fund donation after tearing the clown apart? I would. What the heck happened?! | ||
| two dogs (66.90.211.157) Rating: N/A |
I was just out there on my bus thinking....I BET you he didn't crush it...BET he got a lien on it & sold it...go to the courthouse & see if he filed for a rebuilders title,or a mechanics lien...(reason,that won't fit in a crusher...) | ||
| Larry (208.18.102.135) Rating: N/A |
Well he did say "ripped apart", not crushed (I think he was crushed). I hope it is just hid somwhere. The next post might Be; Murdered In CT. | ||
| Johnny (65.224.20.31) Rating: N/A |
If it was my bus, that is definitely possible. | ||
| two dogs (66.90.214.11) Rating: N/A |
a torch won't cut alum. or stainles....& if it was half as nice as the guy says..be stupid to rip it apart...BET you he sold it..EVERY state is different...here..if you are 90 days behind on rent..you just forfited it,anyway..you'd have to have some BIG equipment to rip it up..was the ground all torn up?... | ||
| Larry (208.18.102.135) Rating: N/A |
You would be amazed at what a backhoe or a high-lift can do in short order, I watched as 2 - o4's bit the dust in short order, there one hour gone the next. Torch will get through it (not good), but a plazma cutter will. I would agree that it prob is in hiding somewhere, sold, etc | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (69.34.99.39) Rating: N/A |
An oxy-acetylene torch will cut aluminum, dogs, it makes a mess, sorta puddles the metal and it falls away...And a torch definitely will cut stainless... But a sawzall will cut them both too. I will say though... A buddy of mine bought a 55 Chevy and a 62 Nova on a car trailer from a guy with a storage yard, six months after he'd bought them he went to the yard where he was now paying to store them himself... both cars and the trailer were gone. Hard to say how the 4905 went, unless you saw the evidence, but it sure is a bummer. Brian | ||
| Mike M (66.159.178.64) Rating: N/A |
Where in CT was it stored? And do you have any pictures? I live in Forestville and service/install phone systems all over the state, and would be glad to keep a look out for your bus if you do think it was sold or stolen. Sorry for your loss... Mike McCarthy 1969 PD4903 348 | ||
| Sam Sperbeck (206.230.105.248) Rating: N/A |
Hi Jeffery, Have you reported your loss to the police? Maybe another R. Terry saga in the making. I sure hope not, for your sake. Thanks, Sam Sperbeck La Crescent, MN | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.79.46)
Rating: N/A |
Storage yards have a process they must follow, at least in the states that I'm familiar with. They must send a registered letter notifying of a lein, go through the process, etc... I rent from a storage company, it's where my Office and shop are. the scams run by both the management and employees are mind boggling. Sure is a screwed up deal. Gary | ||
| Jeffrey (66.168.40.109)
Rating: N/A |
Hi All Thanks for the condolences. The busses were ripped apart slowly.Every day a little more is literally ripped away. Appears that an axe and brute force have been the preferred method. I had contacted the police when I had first discoverd it and when they contacted the landlord she openly admitted to having hired somebody to do this. At the moment I am having a hard time getiing the officer who came to write a report because he "doesn't want to be involved in a civil matter". What was/is the R. Terry saga? And Johnny all donations will be gladly excepted ;) | ||
| Peter Broadribb (Madbrit) (216.67.207.110)
Rating: N/A |
Thought that would be considered Criminal Damage, not a Civil matter. Peter. | ||
| Johnny (67.242.221.231) Rating: N/A |
Civil my fat (censored)! That sounds like grand theft-auto to me. | ||
| Sam Sperbeck (206.230.105.248) Rating: N/A |
Hi Jeffrey, The R. Terry saga was about an RTS bus stolen from a storage yard in Arizona. He didn't get cooperation from the police either. That story is in the archives on this site but I don't know how to get there, maybe someone else will tell you. Sorry for your loss and please tell us why the owner of the yard where your bus was stored took the action she did. Thanks, Sam Sperbeck La Crescent, MN | ||
| Dale MC8 (69.19.169.202)
Rating: N/A |
Jeffrey, the R. Terry saga can be found on the home page, down at the bottom. Enjoy. Dale | ||
| Jeffrey (68.118.204.107)
Rating: N/A |
Hi Dale I found a R. Terry saga, but it was not about a transit being stolen. Was that removed? The only one I had found was about "quality time" (Is it in Articles of Interest?) The owner of the yard took the action because I was behind on the rent (4mo, $640.00) I am self employed and been stuck by a few people in a row. Absolutely whiped me out. I had phoned her and left a message that I wasn't intending to stiff her and felt really bad that I did not have anything I could send her at the moment but when I get the check for the current project I was working on I'd pay her in full plus some for her patience. I also mentioned that I would be getting them off the property within the month as they were too far from where I lived and I had finally found a place closer. She claims to have never recieved the message. I'm glad Ma Bell acknowledges the call. I have photos of the bus before it was wrecked and was wondering if anyone could give me a rough idea of what it was worth as busses and as parts. Is there a place I could post these? | ||
| joe (207.109.1.73) Rating: N/A |
And the rest of the story finally comes out. I knew if we waited long enough, we'd get it. Obviously, the bus was worth right about $640, and the owner was not willing to carry you one month longer (nor should she have to)! I suspect if you read your rental agreement, you'll find that she was well within her rights. I also believe you would not have been moving it off the lot prior to paying your rent. I don't wish to kick you when you're down on your luck, but what do you expect? You can't expect her to run her business the same way you run yours. I have to think that this may be a blessing for you. If you're living that close to the edge that you don't have $640 to pay the rent (which by the way seems really high for a storage spot), then how did you expect to afford to build a bus conversion, let alone maintain it? | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A |
"...then how did you expect to afford to build a bus conversion, let alone maintain it?" Painful but true. Unless you're building a "Hippie Bus" out of 2X4's and Plywood, you really have to have a way to fund it. Gary | ||
| Lugnut (Lugnut) (67.248.200.219)
Rating: N/A |
Hey! He just got his dreams crushed! What a bunch of pompous assholyness! Sheesh! | ||
| Jeffrey (68.118.204.107)
Rating: N/A |
The yard is full of garbage that had been there long before my busses were there and they are still there. The conversion bus ran perfectly with another as spare parts and an RTS both with low milage since rebuilds both 871's w/autos. The materials for the conversion with the exception of the radiant flooring panels and hot water heater (which are finally on there way) were all already purchaced and ready for the roof to be raised and the building process to get underway. Furthrmore, apparently unlike yourself, Joe, even had I removed the busses before paying her what I owed her, She would have been paid in full as a priority as are all small businesses I patronise. The way one runs their business has nothing to do with how many bad checks get sent their way, June, July and Augest came in at about $10K short I'm sure everyone out their can afford to take a hit like that and be completely unaffected. I guess your suggesting that I have the right to go and destroy the property of the people who owe me money? There was no written agreement and regardless her accepting my checks bound her to a verbal landlord tenant agreement and being that she does this with many others she is acting as a comercial storage business, which in most states requires her to have a sherrif inventory the property and serve me with papers to remove, pay and/or quit occupation, ussually within 30 days of service before she could sell or remove it herself. Which she had not done. One bus was full of new glass, packaged parts,appliances, lumber and millwork etc.. which, had she been a real business person, would have netted her a lot more than 20 cent a pound and a container bill for the appliances and lumber. I've seen a lot of busses and the cost of the conversion for the most part does not reflect the quality of the final product. In many cases the units that I've seen especially a lot of the so called "Professional" conversions are of poorer quality than some of the "Hippy Busses" Apparently it's all in the eyes of the beholder and what they percieve as quality which for the most part is pretty sad these days. A good case in point is the 73 4905 was far superior than the 79 parts bus which was cheaped out with thinner gauge materials and plasics where there used to be metal or glass. All told she wasted about $25K of materials and that doesn't include the busses which is why I originally posted as I need to know where I can find some info on how to finalize a value for the shells themselves. Thank You Jeffrey | ||
| R.C.Bishop (128.123.221.225)
Rating: N/A |
Gary...Joe.....ever have a dream?....ever been unable to accomplish that dream?.....ever been in a tight?... ever been bucked out of the saddle just when you thought you had conquered the horse? ...ever bite off more than you could chew? Since I too am working on a budget, and have drawn out the process for two years and only 60-70 percent complete, guess I should re-think whether I should have even started such a project; to say nothing about the plywood that I have in my conversion....(like 1.5 inches of marine flooring as a base, 1/2 inch as solid substrate for the finish oak ply---even cut some 2 x 4's for use as framing here and there)....I just didn't realize that made it a "Hippie Bus". But, alas, I think I'll proceed and ignore the negatives that seem to keep popping up on this board. There is too much helpful information available from sincere folks that love this hobby to let a case of dysentary of the keyboard spoil it. Hang in there Jeffrey. Someone will come up with some helpful information for you....maybe even Luke at US Coach.  I see where lugnut is coming from. Open mouth, insert foot. RCB '64 Crown HWC | ||
| Luke Bonagura (Lukeatuscoach) (12.75.174.26)
Rating: N/A |
Hi Jeff: I have been watching this thread, as BNO is piped into my E-Mail, and I was interested in the final outcome of your problem. R.C. Bishop's reply tonight at 9PM E.S.T. got me off my tired Butt to reply at this late date. I hate to spoil your evening, but can't imagine anyone establishing a value of buses that no longer exist!!!! It is tough enough when they are here to look at. I know that is not what you want to here, but that is the fact of the matter as I see it. As R.C. states, who of us has not been in a bind financially or had problems, where we could and would find a willing listener and hopefully we are dealing with folks that understand!!! Jeff, if in fact, during your troubled times you kept in contact with your landlord, (hopefully face to face), and he/she then destroyed your personal property (although the rent was behind), then I would just go to a court of law and see where the chips fall. You know what you paid for the vehicles and the material inside them (if I read your post correctly) and hopefully you have receipts. With recipts in hand you might find an understanding judge??? With nothing in writing, unfortunately, you don't even have "Proof", (and that is what a Court will be looking for), that your vehicles were even on the landlord's property. Now I am not an attorney (I WORK FOR A LIVING), but after being involved in the bus industry for 41 years, one gets a sense of the LAW and becomes a Half A-- attorney. Not what you want to hear, but the best that I can offer, and I certainly wish you luck, and HOPE that you can recover some of, if not all of your LOSS!!! LUKE at US COACH | ||
| jim mci-9 (209.240.198.63) Rating: N/A |
hate to hear of your bad luck... but i learned something a looonnnggg time ago....pay your bills... keep in contact with your debtors if you cant.... and do not avoid them!!.... | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A |
This list has the ability of going from zero to pissy in nothing flat. We all make responses based on the information in the previous posts. Lugnut--We're not being Pompous Assholes--we're being realistic. you can't do any real conversion for a few hundred bucks. If you can't cover the $640 over a four month period, you can't afford a conversion. Reality bites--get over it. Jeffrey--Read your earlier posts again as if you didn't know the situation. Consider the sound of your postings objectively--Prior to your last posting, telling us about the materials and engine condition, this sounds like a thousand other stories about a guy who buys a bus and seriously underestimates the endeavor, leaving some property owner with the burden and liablity of a derelict bus that must be disposed of. Nobody wants to beat a real dedicated converter down, but it does sound an awful lot like you scored a bus, but couldn't afford to deal with it later. You have to admit, this would not be an entirely unique situation. Now, on the other hand, if you thought you had a casual "Don't worry about it" deal with the storage lady, and had a real material investment in the bus and componensts. That is a different situation. Honestly, that's not what it sounded like. If this is a real storage yard, they probably have a legal lien at 45 days, there is a written contract, you just don't have your copy. If it is as you say, an "Informal" storage facility, this woman is stupid at best. If you don't have any written agreement with them, and this is a standard verbal rental agreement (Written or not) The legal situation is what it is, they are toast. Get a lawyer. You better have documentation though, but I'm sure you do since you're a businessman. Above all get a lawyer. RCB--I'm missin' your point. I guess your advice is that someone that can't afford $160/mo storage, SHOULD embark on a bus conversion? Cheering someone on when they obviously can't afford is is not doing them any favors. If you want to talk unfinished projects and stolen dreams, you've probably never even met anyone in my league. Gary | ||
| R.C.Bishop (128.123.221.199)
Rating: N/A |
Who's to know what some one can afford....or not afford. Some times we all make great decisions ( calculated risks?) and at other times we make really bad decisions (dumb thinking or not at all). At least in my case that has proven true. The last thing a terminal cancer patient needs to hear is someone reminding him that he has cancer. Encouragement costs nothing. Advice is cheap...and is sometimes cheapening. Good advice is sometimes hard to swallow, but usually appreciated. A kick in the teeth is not well received and certainly not helpful. My point, and at least a couple of others seem to have noted that, had nothing to do with a storage payment. My point, succinctly, is, as my old mom used to say..." if you can't say something helpful (nice), say nothing at all". We all need a little cheerleading from time to time.... or? And, far as I know, we all have a wart or two. FWIW Luke, good post. Take a look at the the last sentence of Jeff's last post. Any ideas there? RCB '64Crown HWC | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks) (66.167.95.217)
Rating: N/A |
Jeffrey: This is way out of my qualifications, but barring all else it seems to me that you could treat the value of the shells just like they do in real estate, that is, find some 'comps' or comparable property. It shouldn't take too much searching to find a half-dozen reasonably similar units and pick a number close to the recent value of those. Maybe subtract a thousand or so for a safe fudge factor. I feel for ya, dude. Notwithstanding the comments about being underfunded, seems to that a 'pay as you go' approach is just as valid as starting with $70K cash and spending it gleefully on toys (bus-goodies) like some of the others must do. I mean, that's the way small business works - you improve equipment & facilities and build the business out of earnings! | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (65.74.64.127)
Rating: N/A |
Jeffrey, it sounds to me as though you have already started gathering your evidence. If that is true, just continue as you are until you are sure that you have gathered enough to have a solid picture for a judge to look at. Many people get fouled up thinking that they can persuade a court to see bad intent in their opponent's actions and don't see that there are real holes in their own evidence. Since there are quite a few shells for sale on BNO, you shouldn't have too much trouble coming up with some values for your shell. There are quite a few on other sites as well. Since your bus is already destroyed, you should probably find out how much time you have to make a claim and what limits might apply in which courts. You might approach Fast Fred about it because he can be very practical and he already knows why he told you about this shell. I really hope you are in a position to document the facts, because that documentation is likely to be the foundation of any recovery. Good luck! Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher | ||
| DonTX/KS (63.234.100.56)
Rating: N/A |
My two cents worth: I feel these are typical responses from a varied group of people, and a common problem on the board. We obviously consist of a group of people that vary from the kid with a gift schoolie trying to get on the road to explore the USA, to the guy who just spent a small portion of his inherited millions on a custom made cruiser. Why can't we just be a little more tolerant of each other, I have no problem with either group, or anyone inbetween - except when they start saying the other person is wrong. If we do the best we can with what we have, why should anyone be critical of that? | ||
| gary Stadler (68.7.217.217) Rating: N/A |
Go Don! | ||
| R.C.Bishop (128.123.221.207)
Rating: N/A |
Amen, Don! RCB | ||
| Geoff (Geoff) (66.238.120.26)
Rating: N/A |
I don't see it as a matter of tolerance (or getting along), I see the board divided between those that think Jeffrey got a raw deal and those who think he should of made a better effort at paying his bill, staying within his budget, and especially staying in contact with the lady that owned the lot. Four months without a payment or confirmed contact I would consider to be abandoned property. Sorry to hear his buses got destroyed but I think Jeffrey was negligent. --Geoff '82 RTS CA | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A |
Actually, I haven't formulated an opinion, I don't think anyone on the list, except Jeffrey, knows the real situation. All I know is either: A) He shined on the storage lady, and she felt she needed the space back. (However having mountains of other junk around that was there before the busses does not support this) B) He got screwed by the storage lady, but I can't see a rational reason for her doing this. I think there's more to the story yet. Gary | ||
| Mike Eades (Mike4905) (206.148.124.244)
Rating: N/A |
Jeff I don't know if I can help or not, but I have a written appraisal of my 1975 4905 in a completed condition as of I think four years ago. Done for insurance reasons. I can copy it with a the inclosed pics if this heelps. Ask Luke about my coach and maybe this will help you a little. If this helps let me know where to mail a copy and I will wihtin the next week or so Mike |