| Author |
Message |
ChuckMC9 (Chucks) (66.167.142.168)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 10:11 pm: | |
Some wheels have two, some five. Any significance to that? Rating or somesuch? |
Darryl (68.184.122.103)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 10:51 pm: | |
Chuck, most coaches come with the two hole. Most transits come with the five hole. I'm told the five hole allowed for more rapid cooling of the drums. This would make sense for transits, which stop and start alot. I've seen both types run on either. For motorhome service, it probably comes down to which you prefer in the looks department. I personally like the two hole best. |
Rodger in WA (64.70.24.54)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2003 - 9:09 am: | |
When I bought it, my '76 Prevost had all 5 hole wheels. They appear to be originals or, at least very old. I've replaced three wheels due to cracks found in two and one out of line. The replacement wheels, from two different shops, are the two hole style.
Both shops informed me that the two hole style is no longer available. |
John Rigby (24.174.239.244)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2003 - 11:42 am: | |
Truck wheels have two holes. Bus wheels ,as they have less actual break area( less wheels than 18 wheelers) have 5 holes as they need better cooling.
John |
Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2003 - 3:13 pm: | |
Also if one can figure out the code stamped on the wheels, usually but not always the two (2) hole wheels are stronger.
That is why sometimes you will see five (5) hole wheels on the rear and the heavier duty two (2) hole steel wheels on the front. |
ChuckMC9 (Chucks) (66.167.142.168)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2003 - 10:04 pm: | |
I had a suspicion that there had to be some reason other than just appearance. My coach has an odd assortment - steers are two hole on both sides, all 3 RR's are two, and all LR's are 5. Not surprising I suppose after 21 years on the road, but when time for tires comes I guess I should swap a couple around and make a trade for one of the 2's for a 5, just so the 'suite' will have some sense of raison d'etre? (sp)
Thanks yet again! |
R.C.Bishop (128.123.221.135)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2003 - 11:59 pm: | |
Luke B..do you have any resolution here?
Good input from each person, but it seems pretty ambiguous in what the answer to the question is. And a good question at that. I have wondered that a hundred times.
I'm sure all would appreciate your thoughts.
Thanx,
RCB
'64 Crown HWC |
TomNPat (66.82.9.11)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 26, 2003 - 1:42 am: | |
Would agree that Luke needs to jump in here. Our bus is a former NJT 9 and it uses 5 hand hole wheels. They are thicker than a normal truck rim also with larger stud holes for stud piloting. Bought a truck rim for $88 and enlarged the stud holes but the lugs wouldn't tighten on it due to long shoulder area of studs. 'Bus' rim (one on west coast) cost $238 plus shipping from Seattle.
Our mechanic says our wheels are 'transit style' so i would say that the brake heating theory has some validity. But we need Luke's wisdom.
TomNPat |
DonTX/KS (205.187.92.171)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 26, 2003 - 5:52 am: | |
Very interesting thread, this could get back to why no aluminum wheels are two hole. I always thought wheels were wheels, and the number of holes was more a trademark of who made them, and still think that way until proven differently. I sure have trouble with the "truck rim" costing $88 and the "bus" one costing $238 Tom. Obviously the DOT does not know that either. Something is not right there. I have not been able to find any of the wheel dealers selling two classes like that, who was the Seattle dealer that you bought it from? |
jim mci-9 (209.240.198.62)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 26, 2003 - 7:00 pm: | |
for a long time when there were split rim wheels, they were 5 and 6 hole wheels..in even number sizes.. 20.. 22..... then came the .5 size.. 22.5... 24.5...these were designed with a differnt bead angle... 45-60, instead of the 90 degree associated with tube type tires...the 2 hole wheels were tubeless designed....or so i was told in a conversation with some firestone engineers.... |
DonTX/KS (205.187.92.25)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 26, 2003 - 8:17 pm: | |
Maybe that is the Firestone way, but not for all Jim. I carried a 5 or 6 hole steel 24.5 wheel for a spare. And of course Alcoa and Accuride don't seem to do it that way either. Maybe you hit the nail on the head: FIRESTONE made two hand hole wheels in their tubeless wheels, for no other reason than to make inventory identification easy. Reckon? |
TomNPat (66.82.9.11)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 27, 2003 - 1:48 am: | |
Don,
Sorry you are having trouble with the two 'classes' of wheels. Both were bought from Les Schwab in Northern California but the 'bus' rim had to be shipped from Seattle as I said in my earlier post. The 'bus' rim is thicker at the stud hole area than a truck rim as well as in the rest of the rim. We are home, and our bus in in Napa for service at the time, but I'll put a caliper on both the truck and bus rims to give you the difference. Our rims are made by Accuride. I suggest you contact them for the proof you desire.
Some questions until then, however. What doesn't the DOT know? And how did they reveal this to only you? Did they contact you to determine whether there are more than one type of rim?
Thanks for your very valuable information. The fact that you used to own a bus makes your replies extremely valuable.
TomNPat |
Peter Broadribb (Madbrit) (65.37.91.115)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 27, 2003 - 2:39 am: | |
Guys,
I just checked my Fruitliner FLD120 and it has Accuride 2 hole wheels on all axles. I checked the build sheet and it came from the factory that way.
Can I draw the conclusion that trucks use bus wheels too or did someone at Freightliner know I was someday going to build a bus conversion on a truck chassis?........ LOL.
Peter. |
DonTX/KS (205.187.92.144)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 27, 2003 - 5:56 am: | |
TomNPat: I used to be a DOT inspector is how they revealed this to only me. We had no bus check requirement for them to have special wheels. I am also confused about your problem with the stud holes not fitting properly. Truck and bus rims have been interchanged for decades, and perhaps this is something that has recently came about, and could be a real safety issue if not shared.
I spent quite a lot of time on the internet researching this, and came up empty handed so far (including the Accuride site). The best
as my old memory seems to recall, the two handhole wheels are something fairly recent on the scene. The total lack of any knowledeable response makes this even more challenging, like why would a bus even need heavier wheels. |
DonTX/KS (205.187.92.144)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 27, 2003 - 8:45 am: | |
I WAS RIGHT! I wrote to Accuride and here is their reply:
1. The difference in a 2 Hand Hole vs. more is the weight. No there is no significant difference. Generally a couple of pounds (if you are referring to steel wheels).
2. There are bus wheels (or we refer to them as bus wheels). They are a little more expensive and are balanced. That makes sure that the ride is smooth.
That is about the extent of my technical knowledge...sorry.
If you need more information, feel free to contact Jim Durant at JDURANT@Accuridecorp.com or 1/800/626/7096, ext 7682. |
Peter Broadribb (Madbrit) (65.37.91.115)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 27, 2003 - 12:05 pm: | |
I certainly would think the 2 hole would weigh a couple of pounds more, the 5 hole was 3 more holes punched out........ LOL.
Sorry, couldn't resist that.
Peter. |
ggypsy (68.210.183.195)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 27, 2003 - 6:23 pm: | |
transit style wheels are center hole piloted..vs stud piloted for nearly everything else..if your mechanic said transit style wheels ...any other 9,s with center hole piloted wheels??.. ps.. center hole piloted are a bunch higher priced new.... Don didn't realize you were a former tax collector...explains lots of your answers.....GG |
Geoff (Geoff) (66.238.120.212)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 27, 2003 - 6:55 pm: | |
Bus and truck wheels can be Budd-type or center hub piloted-- it just depends on what was ordered. Transit buses are no different-- i.e. my RTS has Budd wheels with 5 holes. But I didn't know they were balanced or anything. |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 27, 2003 - 7:02 pm: | |
My 'Bird has stud-piloted Alcoas.
Gary |
Clifford Neal (65.174.115.4)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 27, 2003 - 8:23 pm: | |
I don't understand the high price of so-called bus wheels. My local tire store sells new wheels for $60.00 and says there is no difference in the ones he put on my bus and the ones he places on trucks. |
DonTX/KS (205.187.92.79)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 27, 2003 - 11:21 pm: | |
You are quite right. I don't understand either, that was my point to TomNPat. The Les Schwab web site indicates they do not even sell bus or truck tires and wheels, just fancy lo rider wheels and such. It would certainly appear they sure got to TomNPat with some fancy double talk, first with the overpriced wrong wheel, then with a price gouge on the second one.. Maybe the lesson is to go to a tire and wheel store that specializes in bus and truck stuff. If I were he, I would be doing some serious talking to Lew Schwab. |
TomNPat (66.82.9.41)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 12:35 am: | |
Don,
Wish I had the time to try to prove myself God but I'm not a retired goverment employee! Listen to Ggypsy, he has it and you right.
Glad to know that visiting a web site makes you an expert on a company! Guess you had Enron stock?
Les Schwab probably makes half of his gross off of heavy equipment, trucks and buses. Was the 'Lo rider' comment intended to assist in proving yourself right? If so, it failed as do racially motivated slurs everywhere. It certainly indicates both a lack of knowledge about the pacific northwest where they have about a hundred stores and the typical anti business bias of many government employees.
Anyway, Let's put our money where our mouths are. I contend Accuride made a rim that is 7/16" thick at the stud holes, with 1 3/16" stud holes that is hub piloted (I said 'stud' erroneously in an earlier post) with 5 hand holes. A STANDARD TRUCK RIM WILL NOT WORK! The rim is not thick enough and the stud holes are not large enough.
The Accuride one we replaced in sitting in my shop and I'll be back here in two weeks.
You contend that Accuride rims are all the same and that Les Schwab ripped me off. I have $1000 that says you're wrong.
So, forget 'fancy double talk' and 'price gouges', talk to me serious. Show me the money! Goverment pension money spends just as easily as our hard earned stuff.
Otherwise, I'll go on ignoring your posts as I have for years since most are only self serving.
TomNPat |
DonTX/KS (205.187.92.250)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 7:10 am: | |
Wow, wonder who lit the string on your tampax. Sorry you are having such a bad day. The Les Schwab site is http://www.lesschwab.com/on_sale2.html
anyone can see for themselves if they appear to be truck tire and wheel people.
It would be helpful when you mistakenly call a hub piloted wheel a stud piloted wheel, to just admit the mistake.
The rest of your post has me laughing so hard I cannot type anymore. Hope you get better soon, and it pleases me that you ignore my posts, I hope that continues. |
Phil Dumpster (67.2.24.13)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 2:28 pm: | |
Now now, children, play nice.
Les Schwab is a northwest institution when it comes to tires for everything from the 4 cylinder Econobox all the way up to the Terex Titan pit-mine dump truck. Their web site is geared primarily to the consumer with an SUV or half ton pickup and an excess of cash and testosterone, as well as children who want to ride around with only the floor of their car separating their ass from the road.
If you go to their home page, click on the "tires" link, and then select from OTR, farm or truck tires, you'd see more of their product line geared to heavy vehicles.
They also offer onsite service throughout most of the northwestern United States at very reasonable prices and their service is generally very good. Their warranty service, in particular, is outstanding.
All of this comes at a price - they are generally not the cheapest source for much of anything. They often have very cheap tires for passenger cars as a loss leader but they tend to be just that - very cheap tires good only for 20,000 miles or so. Good if you want to sell a used car with a tire warranty, though.
If you want wheels for your bus that are cheaper than what Les will sell them to you for, the Peterbuilt service depot in Fife, WA (south of Seattle and north of Tacoma) sells 22.5 steel wheels powder coated grey for around $60 each. Most junkyards in the area sell them for around $25 used. Either will be plenty strong enough for your bus. |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 4:28 pm: | |
It's amazing, any conversation here has the potential to turn into a pissing contest.
1) the Alcoas on MY bus are stud-piloted, 22.5X8.25, EXACTLY the same as a Truck wheel. Now Maybe there are some Bus-Specific wheels out there, but I haven't seen them.
2) As Phil says above, Les Schwab's core business Is heavy trucks and Agricultural business. I worked side-by side with them in the field, myself doing equipment repairs, them doing tire work. They used to farm out quite a bit of work to us since we were next door.
I think a couple of the posts above are based on people's own experiences and they are using those experiences as "Standards" which they are not. Not all busses require "Bus-Only" wheels, some may (Never have seen this myself) but many don't. My bus does not.
Can we please remain civil enough on the list to not make personal attacks?
Gary |
ChuckMC9 (Chucks) (66.167.143.229)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 4:35 pm: | |
YEAH! What *he* said!
Gary, maybe it's just the newbie questions that do this. Seems like every new thread I've started turns into that. ;)
So, I've learned enough to know that this will *not* be one of my immediate concerns. I'm stressing out enough already wondering what the h*** I've done with this bus thing.
Thanks for the information & the entertainment, gentlemen. (trying to reinforce positive behaviour ;) |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 6:15 pm: | |
Well don't stop posting--and your questions are not as "Newbie" as you may think.
If you think this bunch is eccentric, try subbing to a Skoolie list for a while. They may actually try to convince you that a 5gal bucket and Sawdust is better than a conventional head.
Stop stressing and come to grips with the fact that you, like the rest of us, have completely lost your mind.
I, for instance am splicing a frame-rail UNDER my bus today....
Gary |
Johnny (67.242.221.2)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 9:43 pm: | |
Hey, some of the nuts here LIKE school buses (that would be me).
"I, for instance am splicing a frame-rail UNDER my bus today...."
Better you than me.
Of course, I had my Caddy wrecked Monday, so I think you're still ahead.
What a way to start a week. |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 10:05 pm: | |
I like School busses too--Especially Crowns.
Doesn't make the Skoolie lists any less weird.
My week's off to a rough start too.
Gary |
Rooster (211.248.233.3)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 2:04 am: | |
Tomnpat: Our bus is a former NJT 9 and it uses 5 hand hole wheels. They are thicker than a normal truck rim also with larger stud holes for stud piloting.
Rooster's reply:
Your thicker wheels are a result of owning a intercity bus that was spec'ed for interchangability with RTS city buses. Thats why they are thicker, for all those nasty city curbs. You can get these wheels for a dime a dozen at a salvage yard. You got ripped off. |
DonTX/KS (67.210.119.102)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 4:56 am: | |
Careful with your words now Rooster, TomNPat is a little touchy about that subject right now. We are back to stud piloting again. Which do NJT buses use? Geoff says his RTS is hub piloted. |
Phil Dumpster (67.2.25.107)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 4:50 pm: | |
You can get a transit with either wheel system. Mine are stud piloted with Alcoas that were paid for by the federal government.
Yes, city transit busses came with the thicker and stronger wheels to go with the (commonly) Goodyear Metro-Miler G152 Unisteel tires to attack innocent curbs. These tires (which are limited to 55 miles per hour) have a thicker tread and sidewalls to take that kind of abuse.
Unless you make a habit of driving your bus into curbs, you don't need these special accessories for your bus, or the weight penalty associated with them.
In any event, for a motorhome conversion of a transit bus in need of new wheels, I wouldn't pay $200 for the transit wheels. As was mentioned, you can find them in junkyards for the cost of the scrap steel as most truckers don't want them either.
Sorry, last I checked Les Schwab doesn't give refunds on special order items. Consider it a learning experience, and always check with the boards before making such a purchase for advice before the sale. |
john w. roan (Chessie4905) (68.168.57.30)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 06, 2003 - 4:59 pm: | |
checked some rims I just took off a transit bus I scrapped...7/16 thick at the hub-stud area. They use non radials here, as radials don't tolerate being curbed as well as bias ply. |
Johnny (67.242.221.3)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 06, 2003 - 8:49 pm: | |
I don't know if the wheels are unique, but the transits I see (RIPTA in Rhode Island and MBTA in the Boston area) run 10-lug Budd steelies, with radials (B305/85R22.5 Goodyear Metro Milers & Michelin X 12R22.5's, respectively). The Goodyears are the low-speed, heavy-duty transit tires (stamped "MAX SPEED 55MPH"), but the MBTA buses seem to run standard coach/truck tires. These are mostly (95% or more) RTS'a, with a few Flx's (many running CNG) & some odd-looking CNG-powered articulateds. |