| Author |
Message |
ChuckMC9 (Chucks) (66.167.143.229)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 8:29 pm: | |
- o n e -
You've cranked your 8V71 this morning, it is now purring at 120 degrees, and you're driving away.
One mile down the road you spot a 7-11 and decide to run in for a six-pack of Mountain Dew.
You:
a.) kill it
b.) let it run
- t w o -
You've now got your Mountain Dew and enough BonBons to last you for 400 miles. You're 200 miles down the road, running at 180 degrees and spy a WalMart which has that gallon of 40W you should travel with. Of course you won't get just that - there's always something else to get your attention, so you might be 15 minutes)
You:
a.) kill it
b.) let it run (S.O. can wait with it - besides, she's too engrossed in today's Dr. Phil to leave, notwithstanding the lure of WalMart)
I've read the posts about an hour of idling being = to 200 miles of wear. Am just trying to get a better sense of the threshold
PS: Surely this won't get too acrimonious! ;) |
jim mci-9 (209.240.198.63)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 8:36 pm: | |
let it run..... love the sound of a 2 stroke purring....and it won't hurt....if i were gonna be there more than an hour, i'd kill it... but for anything less, its not gonna hurt....a well-tuned detroit will start in about a half-turn.... |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 8:37 pm: | |
NO FAIR!! This is a trick Question!!!!
No Significant Other can resist the lure of Wally World.
Gary |
John Rigby (24.174.239.244)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 9:21 pm: | |
Idle for an hour, lots of unburnt fuel in air box, going down the road gets all over the toad.
A Detroit hates to idle loves to be running 1800 to 2100 rpm or so Im told. |
bobm (68.35.160.19)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 9:25 pm: | |
shut it down. anything longer than a red light should have you shut it off. letting it run is only for hard starting units or week batteries |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 9:41 pm: | |
Interesting--
Most of the Operators I've known left their units Idling for extended periods of time, like at the truckstop.
Also, The railroads near where I used to live had dozens of Locomitives Idling all the time. One of the Mechanics there told me that they only shut them down to rebuild them.
Gary |
Johnny (67.242.221.2)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 9:49 pm: | |
How about the best of both worlds: fast-idle the engine. That way, it won't wet-stack. I have gone an entire shift in a diesel wrecker without shutting down many times, especially in the middle of winter (really cold, keeping the heat on) or summer (hot & muggy, keeping the air on).
PS--I've never seen SAE40W Delo at Wally World. |
DonTX/KS (63.157.180.69)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 9:50 pm: | |
Some things to think about: Several of the trucking companies did some research on that, they found some of their trucks had not been shut off for weeks at at a time! They put auto shutoff devices on them, even killed it at stop lights. Despite fears of increased starter and battery costs, that did not happen. Engine maintenance costs spirialed downward at an amazing rate. Drivers just hated the damned things.
There have been some studies also to suggest that the super torsional shock loads on the crankshaft of a diesel at idle leads to crankshaft breakage with excessive idling. |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 10:11 pm: | |
"I've never seen SAE40W Delo at Wally World"
Believe it or not, that's where I bought my last Gallon.
"...super torsional shock loads on the crankshaft of a diesel at idle leads to crankshaft breakage with excessive idling."
That's interesting...
I don't have a dog in this race, so I'm curious myself.
Gary |
Sean Welsh (Sean) (64.81.73.194)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 1:17 am: | |
Detroit says: shut it down (both cases). Source: Mike Meloche, DD factory rep. I agree with him.
Idling just wastes fuel, increases wear, and, if left to idle at low speed, causes the unburnt fuel situation discussed above.
Unless you have bad batteries, and are afraid you won't be able to crank it again, shut it down.
The folks you see leaving their engines idling at truck stops and the like either (a) are not paying their own maintenance and/or (b) are doing so to run either their A/C or their heat as the case may be.
-Sean |
Sean Welsh (Sean) (64.81.73.194)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 1:22 am: | |
p.s. Railroad locomotives are a bad example. The shutdown procedure runs about two minutes, and the start-up procedure runs about 6-7 minutes, depending on model. Nobody wants to go through that amount of trouble unless they have to. That having been said, every locomotive that I have seen sitting on a siding for more than a day has been shut down -- even railroads (who pay waaay less for diesel than we do) aren't that wasteful.
-Sean |
DonTX/KS (67.210.119.102)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 4:47 am: | |
Jim is biased, he is in the business of overhauling engines, probably will tell you anything just to get your engine to break so he can fix it, right Jim?
As I have often said, look more closely at the truck stop next time. The trucks with owner/operator on them will probably NOT be at idle all night, the ones belonging to someone else probably will be. |
charles seaton (170.28.128.106)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 8:34 am: | |
Here in New York it is unlawful to idle a diesel for more than three minutes. If caught, you are fined. |
John Rigby (65.112.227.94)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 9:20 am: | |
I dont base much on the DD factory reps that can not tell much about a head gasket problem.
Our fellow bus nuts new more about what was going on with the live problems before us..
John. |
Paul Tillmann (Paultillmann) (24.105.207.202)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 9:30 am: | |
- o n e -
b.) let it run (at high idle). If no high idle, shut it down. The six pack of Mountain Dew shouldn't take anymore than two to three minutes. Idling at high idle for that period of time won't hurt anything and you can keep all the systems running ie a/c, heat, defrost. Every time you shut these systems down and restart them (including the engine starter) there is more wear and tear than if you just let everything run for two minutes.
- t w o -
a.) kill it. No point in letting it run (even at high idle) for this amount of time. Wastes more fuel than its worth even if it does no harm to the engine. Besides, the 15 minutes usually turns into 30 when in Wally World. Both of my DDs start in less than one turn when warm.
Just my opinion.
Paul |
ChuckMC9 (Chucks) (66.167.143.229)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 9:59 am: | |
OK, here's my takeaway - regarding idle time, treat it just like you would a car. That's close enough for now.
Thanks again, Gents! If I ever make it to a rally, Mountain Dew's on me.
...um, but I don't even like Mountain Dew. We'll discuss alternatives. |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 10:56 am: | |
Scotch & Guiness
Gary |
Bill Butler (67.75.227.50)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 10:59 am: | |
I had a diesel mechanic tell me that a DD
has a oil hole in the wrist pin area that squirts oil onto the piston head for cooling. He related that while idling there is not enough pressure to squirt the oil onto the piston therefore, shut it down. Anyone know about this??? |
Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 4:50 pm: | |
Kill it. |
john w. roan (Chessie4905) (68.168.57.30)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 5:07 pm: | |
Diesels cool off at idle... check a pyrometer sometime, so I don't think the lack of oil to the piston head will create a problem. You will definately have more unburned fuel in the cylinders causing more wear..how much? who knows. I shut mine off if more than 5 minutes. |
JimNH (172.200.176.45)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 6:59 pm: | |
Having driven charter & line run busses there are several reasons to idle the bus. One is to keep the A/C running to keep the passengers cool, very important. Two is to keep the heat up to keep the passengers warm, also very important. Three is to provide electricity to run the TV monitors so the driver can watch a video while waiting for the passengers to return, extremely important.
But, since we don't have passengers and do have inverters we don't need to idle the bus.
Jim |
DonTX/KS (67.27.115.225)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 9:12 pm: | |
But Jim, how about them newer Renaissance MCI jobbies that kill the motor and AC after a few minutes? NOBODY sits and stays cool without some work there. |
JimNH (172.158.238.160)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 8:04 am: | |
The guys in the shop can reset the DDEC to eliminate that. Customer & driver satisfaction dictate the idling time. I'm going out today and hook my DDEC reader up and get a fuel comsumption figure on my 8V92 at idle and fast idle. I'll be back with the figures.
Jim |
JimNH (172.159.95.179)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 10:17 am: | |
OK- I just checked the fuel consumption of my engine. It wasn't really warmed up (coolant at 95 degrees). At 600 rpm idle, it uses 1.0 GPH. When kicked up on 1140 rpm fast idle comsumption jumped to 2.9 GPH. At current NH prices of $1.46/gallon that figures out to be $1.46 (duh) per hour at idle and $4.23 per hour at fast idle. Won't take many hours to pay for a new starter on high idle!!
Just thought you'd like to know.
Jim |
Paul Tillmann (Paultillmann) (24.105.207.202)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 12:10 pm: | |
Wow! $1.46/gal in NH. I think I'm going to move. Most places where I live (upstate NY) sell diesel for $1.65/gal. avg.
Anyway, exactly my point. To let the bus idle for any more than a couple of minutes is a waste. The Mountain Dew would have only cost him about 21 cents extra to let the bus high idle for 2 minutes.
Paul |
JimNH (172.157.63.248)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 1:05 pm: | |
If you think $1.46 is good check this siteout and bookmark it for use on the road in planning fuel stops. If you don't carry a computer with you, give the url to someone you can call and have them look up the prices in the desired area. My sister helped me out several times during last winters travels.
http://www.dieselboss.com/fuel.htm,http://www.dieselboss.com/fuel.htm}
By the way, I have never bought fuel in NY. Just too expensive. Thats why I added 100 gal. auxiliary tank so I could fill in Indiana or Missouri or somewhere cheap. 265 gallons does go a long way, 1000 miles with plenty to spare. I can be very choosy where I fill.
Jim |
Phil (24.195.240.94)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 5:22 pm: | |
Being from upstate NY also I am used to high diesel prices. A few weeks ago I had to go to N Carolina. On the way I found diesel in VA for 1.109 (I81 at exit 84??). Looked like a price war, aren't they great. Filled up but wish I had needed more and had bigger tanks!!!! |