| Author |
Message |
H3Jim (68.107.62.73)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 8:47 pm: | |
I saw some earlier posts about what a Jake should cost on an 8V92, and it seemed that consensus was that while you could pay $2500 or so, that with a little shopping, it could be bought and installed for around $1500 or so. Do those figures also apply for a Jake install on a series 60? I have been quoted by Southern Oregon Diesel approximately $2600 depending on the type of covers I have.
I want the added safety and security of having Jake with me, even though it may not be entirely cost effective, it sure is peace of mind going down those big hills. |
Buswarrior (Buswarrior) (64.229.211.242)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 11:43 pm: | |
Hello H3Jim.
First, Southern Oregon Diesel has an excellent reputation amongst the crew that frequent this board, and are also corporate sponsors of BNO, so I wouldn't worry about a price they have quoted you. So, read on, and spend as you see fit!
If you don't mind, I'm going to railroad your post for the good of the masses. Or, maybe save you a bunch of money?
For the purposes of defending the unknowing that read these boards, I'll state my bias up front: No one NEEDS Jakes, some of us just WANT them.
Which is acceptable. I'll get a set one day, if the price is right, but for the good of those out there who just freaked when they saw the $2500 price tag and think they have to spend it....
It is not necessary to spend money on jakes, unless you have it to spend, and you want to.
Let's think about this one:
If you can't trust your brakes in the mountains, then how can you trust them on the flat?
What's the difference? A high demand braking event is a high demand braking event. Will your bus stop in time?
If it hurtles over the cliff, it would have also whacked into the car in front of you in a sudden slow down on the highway.
Let's remember that all jakes do is let you travel downhill at higher speeds without damaging the brake linings with excessive amounts of heat.
Do you really want to be travelling downhill at those higher speeds?
What happens if you are forced into a high demand brake event at that higher speed while heading down off the mountain?
Everyone should know, and practice on occasion, controlling the downhill speed of their coach using only the gears and brakes. What if the jakes don't come on? What about a 12 percent or even better grade, where even the jake only drags a bit as the bus hurtles to the bottom?
Do you know how to and have you practiced controlling the temperatures of your brake linings while keeping your downhill speed in check?
May I suggest using the search function on the archives of this site? Plug in "downhill braking" and amongst others, check out June 2003 "going downhill", June 2002 "jake brakes" and on page 2, Aug 2002 "jakes with auto"
The archives sure do save some typing!
happy coaching!
buswarrior |
H3Jim (68.107.62.73)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 1:09 am: | |
Let me rail road my post back. I curently own an F250 superduty diesel pickup truck, and I tow a 30 ft fifth wheel with it. I spent $1300 for an exhuast brake, and while I don't Need it, I am very happy with it, and while I don't use it all the time, I consider it money very well spent. I consider it a valuable piece of saftey equipment. As I go down steep grades, say two lanes in my direction, and there is heavy traffic - cars going much faster in the left lane. I will typically do between 50 and 55, occasionally there will be a truck doing 25 or 30, and I can't get over to pass due to the traffic doing 70 -75 around me. NOw I don't need it, and I could have been doing 35 or 40 myself, but the exhaust brake gives me a margin of saftey that I much appreciate. I can stab the service brakes and know that they are totally cool as they have not yet been used on the hill. They are ready for an emergency that I couldn't or failed to plan for. As I said in the first post, I want to have Jake travel with me.
Board sponsors not withstanding, does anyone care to comment if $2500 is a reasonable price to have a Jake installed on a series 60? Quality work by skilled and honest folk always costs a little more, and is probably worth it, but whenever I spend $, I always want to check to see that I am not paying too much, or that I haven't overlooked a better option.
Is the series 60 more complicated so that it warrents another $1000 over what consensus said a Jake install on an 8V92 was worth?
Thanks for any input. |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (24.196.191.70)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 8:31 am: | |
I suspect the $2500 is for a new set of Jakes and installation. Additionally would be the higher valve covers required. A set of used Jakes and the appropriate overhaul kits would be several hundred dollars cheaper, and I suspect the Gregory brothers at Southern Oregon Diesel (a great bunch of guys, buy the way) would be happy to install the used ones as well.
I have Jakes and would rather not be without them, but I can manage. I have travelled cross country mumerous times thru all the mountains in the west as well as the eastern hills, and seldom need to use the service brakes except for actual stopping completely.
I had a failure in the system one time (bad microswitch) and I really missed them until I got it fixed. I also re-wired them so that the actual actuating current for the Jakes was supplied by a control relay. Now, the only current flowing thru the microswitch and the three position hi-lo-off switch was the current required to actuate the control relays. Milli-amps instead of amps.
Richard |
TWO DOGS (66.90.210.249)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 8:53 am: | |
Go get them H3...2500 good price...if you got the money..go for it...you STILL go downhill SLOW...if it says bigtrucks 30...that's what you do in a bus.... |
TWO DOGS (66.90.212.214)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 10:16 am: | |
H3...you got a series 60 in a bus ???? I need to talk to you |
mel 4104 (208.181.100.72)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 11:26 am: | |
well it looks like the need for speedby putting a dd-60 into a bus of unknown type has raised the question////now that i have all this extra power that gives more speed, how in heck do you stop this thing quick or even when just driving? everyone that ups the HP and some put in different trannys and rearends for more speed they look to the jake as the cure-all for stopping, this is not the case a jake works best at the higher RPM and looses effectiveness as it slows down. i have yet to seea post from anyone that has done a engine swap state that they have done an upgrade to their brakes, shuh as digger drums and shoes , larger air pots, larger air tanks and the newer type application valves. however i really like my jake and would not leave home without it and i drive a 4104 with a 6-71 so you fellows can take it from there. but if you do go for the jake be sure that you get a good mech. to install it for you,as if it is not installed proper you could end up with major engine trouble, and there is nothing on a bus mechanical that Dave and the crew at S. OR. deisel cannot add or repair and they stand behind their work, some thing that the$1500-2000 guys will not when you are over 5 miles away. mel 4104 |
TWO DOGS (66.90.210.42)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 11:32 am: | |
there is a difference between speed and power...if your bus is scared of a hill (going up) ya' need power....70 mph is fine with me...3 mph going up...pisses me off... |
NEO/Russ (66.83.53.142)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 12:08 pm: | |
Mel,
I'm putting in a Series 60 that I have raised the 500hp from the original 400hp. But it's replacing a 475hp 8V-92 so it already had some speed. How do I stop it? For starters the retarder on the B500 will help, that and the fact that the brakes were designed for a double decker that carried 79 people and baggage so my conversion should be lighter. Retarders work way down in speed, but need a good sized radiator. The twin stacked cores that cooled the 8V will more than handle this job. Might be too cool for the S 60.
Not everyone is taking out little engines for big ones in buses meant for highways of the 50's. In this case it's upgrading for economy, durability and parts that are readily available.
I agree that if you hire it done, don't be cheap, get a skilled mechanic. Or learn about it so 1500 miles from homebase you can fix it yourself. |
Jim Shepherd (Beltguy) (67.235.113.35)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 1:33 pm: | |
Russ, are you sure that your engine does not have Jakes? The majority of S 60 engines have them, at least in truck applications.
Jim |
NEO/Russ (66.83.53.142)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 3:17 pm: | |
Jim,
I'm positive. It was an option. The fleet that originally ordered the truck was frugial. It was a day cab, FLD 120 with no frills.
And I've got the injectors, rockers and cam on my bench right now so it's a sure thing. I've done a lot of research and exploring truck boneyards for used 60 parts I agree that a majority have them. I also believe that purchasing a used engine without one for a conversion gives you more potential life because the Jake does load the engine as it's used. The mechanics that work at it for a living, that I now know many of, also agree from what they've seen. Not that a Jake will bother a converted bus because we don't load them as much or put as many miles on. They are talking about engines at the million mile level and looking at heads, valves and rings.
Jakes are a good braking aid and the ones they have for the 4 cycles really stand you on your nose. |
H3Jim (68.107.62.73)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 4:12 pm: | |
Two Dogs,
I just bought this bus, a Prevost H3-41, stock. Academy Bus, the original owner, did not get the Jake option. You can never have too much stopping power.
I'm going to NJ to pick it up next week, drive it back to San Diego over T day. |
TWO DOGS (66.90.217.73)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 5:02 pm: | |
wow....nice drive...drop down to I 10 and enjoy yourself...then 8 |
dick egler (206.71.120.1)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 7:24 pm: | |
I noticed a set on that "auction place"
Search #2443489838
Hope that helps. |
H3Jim (68.107.62.73)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 8:15 pm: | |
Thanks for all your help and input. |
gabby (171.75.0.211)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 8:42 pm: | |
I have a set of jakes on my 4905 and would not be without them. I am presently building up a MCI 102 A 3 and will get a set for the 8V92 on it. Jakes really saves brakes |
Buswarrior (Buswarrior) (64.229.209.182)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 11:26 pm: | |
Mission accomplished.
A better selection of comments for the new folks to make decisions about jakes, and some positive support for Southern Oregon.
H3Jim, have a great time bringing that new bus home!
happy coaching!
buswarrior |
H3Jim aka chicken (68.105.98.247)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 5:43 pm: | |
Scared me coming down the gentle side of the mountains to the east of San Diego. I love to drive, and feel pretty much in control of anything I have ever driven, but going down the hill in a bus with only brakes and no Jakes is not something I ever want to repeat.
Well, I got the bus back to SD wtih only a broken fan belt outside of Dallas. All the talk of Jakes being optional, and just go slow and its ok is not true in my opinion. Coming down, starting at 30 mph at the top of a rather gentle slope, the bus picks up spped so quickly, its scary. I was trying to follow the California CDL book and pick my speed, let it go 5 mph faster, then stab teh brakes to bring it back down to my target speed. I had a professional driver with me that helped drive the bus back, and he told me that I was using the brakes far too much and I was risking brake failure by doing it that way. He said that wtih hydraulic brakes, you can tell whn they are fading, but with air brakes you cannot, they just stop working. My speed would pick up from 30 to 50 to 70 so fast, it seemed that I would heat them up too much to bring it back down to say 50. I guess folks have been dong this for many years, and perhaps I am being a weenie, but it really was pretty scary to me. I am driving the bus around town, but I wll not go down another large hill without Jakes in place. I have an appt to have them installed this week. While before I felt they were good to have, now I will not drive the bus without them. They are mandatory saftey equipment, not optional. Here in the West, with our large mountains in particular. |
Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (65.74.64.127)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 8:51 pm: | |
Jim, even if you get your Jakes installed, you're going to need to know what to do if they fail. There is an answer.
When you are coming downhill without Jakes, the old rule was to go no faster than you could climb it. With the high horsepower engines that are put in some of these rigs, that would be too fast if no additional braking is installed.
So, if you would be climbing at 20 mph with a standard amount of power, you would be limited to 20 coming down, geared down so that the engine is turning the better part of governed speed.
If the grade is so steep that your rig wants to gain speed very quickly, you cannot let your speed increase. Going slow is the only way the lining and drums will get rid of heat fast enough to keep from overheating.
If you're cruising down a grade at 50 and your Jakes quit, pull your speed down to 30 right away. Then, you can control your speed the rest of the way down.
You'll find that you can handle a pretty good grade in first gear, and if that's what it takes, that's what you'll have to do. That's why the signs say "Trucks gear down" on long grades.
For what it's worth.
Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
Suncatcher |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (24.196.191.70)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 9:00 pm: | |
Jim, sounds to me like you did not shift down to the proper gear. At 70 mph the engine would have been screaming at 5-6000 rpm if you had been in the proper gear. If you wanted to maintain 30 mph I you should have been in 2nd gear I suspect.
Richard |
BrianMCI96A3 (65.40.154.50)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 12:52 am: | |
Stabbing at the brakes is a really bad idea Jim.
A panic stop on occaision can't be avoided, but as a mechanic I can't tell you how many times I have encountered a hot spot on a drum where the metal of the drum was hardened when someone stabbed the brakes.
Hardening sounds good... problem is, the hardened metal resists wear, will eventually become a high spot and cause brake shudder on that drum.
Cutting through a hot spot causes problems to remove it on the brake lathe, and a drum with a hot spot should be turned down a few thousandths more to insure the spot is removed, thus shortening the life of
the drum.
If that was not bad enough, get the drum hot enough, and stab the brakes with enough force, and it is possible to break the drum.
I haven't looked for it in a while but for many years at a particular spot I used to look to see a 6 or 8 inch piece of a brake drum that had broken that way and melted into the asphalt.
Like I said, a panic stop on occaision can't be avoided, but a slow and easy application with increasing pressure equal to the braking task at hand is, in the long run, a good invesment.
Brian |
H3JIm (68.105.98.247)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 11:28 am: | |
I had heard about the gono fast than you can climb. I started off at 30 mph is 3rd gear (6 speed auto). The bus has safety features to keep it from over revving, and so when it went fast enough, it popped out and shifted to the next higher gear. Every time ti did that, it really took off. It would only go to 2200 or 2250 rpm before "saving" itself. My instinct was to keep using the brakes to keep it slow, but the driver (who drives buses and trucks for a living) said he lets his speed build more, and then brings it down harder. I agree, that the speed should be kept low, so there is time to get rid of the heat. I think the amount of heat to lose is closer to expotential than linear with speed.
In the future, I would keep it slow, within 5 to 10 mph of my tareget speed. I would not jsut hold the brakes, but pull downteh speed, then let it build again (althogh this was really quite fast, probably less than 10 seconds to get another 10 mph.
The driver also said that with air brakes yo get no warning of failure as with hydraulics, they just stop working.
Yes I believe that bus with its series 60 would go up the hill (that I was going down) at least 60, which is too fast to go down it.
Thanks for your input. |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (24.196.191.70)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 3:16 pm: | |
It still sounds to me like you did not start off at the top of the hill in the proper gear. If it was me, I would start at the top in second gear next time instead of third. Anytime I experience the problem you had, I slow down drastically until I can shift down into a lower gear.
Richard |
H3Jim (68.105.98.247)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 6:10 pm: | |
That may be, I am still learning. I have to say that even in a relatively low gear, with engine rpm's over 1700, it still did not slow the bus nearly as much as I'd have liked it to.
It cruises at 65 at 1550, is only 1900 at 80 in 6th. Probably is responsible for the great fuel mileage.
Fortunately, the bus has disk brakes, so while I'm not counting on it, I probably have more margin for error than drums. The Jake is going on next monday, local DD shop, same price as Southern Oregon Diesel. I am so impressed with its lack, I don't want to drive from San Diego to Oregon without one.
I passed my California, non- commercial, Class B drivers test today, so now I'm licensed and dangerous. Its over 40 ft (41 ft), so I have to have the endorsement. No air brake test required even though it has air brakes. No pre-trip inspection required, even though it is prudent to do as well as a good habit to be in. RV'rs can still be dangerous, even though we're licensed!
The Non-commercial Class B is so rare, CA DMV has to "trick" the system when they input it to say that I am a fire fighter, driving fire rigs. added to that is the Special exception for 45 ft housecars. When I took the written test, it took the woman an hour or more to figure out what to do, and to find the test. They don't get many of them I guess. |
Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (65.74.64.127)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 7:19 pm: | |
Jim, there is one thing that I would like to clear up. When that fellow told you that air brakes would fail without warning, I think that he misled you, somewhat.
Treadle valves are made with a reaction chamber in them, AFAIK. This means that the air pressure that is applied to the chambers is also applied against the foot pedal(treadle).
If the brakes start fading or if the downgrade is steep, it will take more effort on the treadle to stop. This means that you do get some warning if it takes more pressure to stop.
The case that I know of that can give you little warning is when the brakes are out of adjustment and you get them hot enough that you run out of stroke. More pedal pressure then will not add more to stopping effort, at an out of stroke chamber.
In practice, one chamber will run out of stroke first, and there will be a noticeable increase in effort to stop. When the second one runs out of stroke, the effort will increase a lot.
As each chember runs out of stroke, you may notice some tendency to swerve as the brakes are applied. When this happens, it will get easier to overheat the remaining brakes.
If you keep your brakes adjusted right up, one of the most noticeable things will be how little treadle pressure you will need for normal stopping. Some rigs have application pressure gauges, but for the most part, I don't think they are necessary.
For what it's worth.
Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
Suncatcher |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (24.196.191.70)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 7:52 pm: | |
Jim, please remember that the Jakes do not eliminate the need for gearing down when you are decending a steep grade. Based on your description of your trip returning to San Diego, you would have still needed to be in no higher a gear than third, I believe.
Tom,
One old time truck driver told me he used the pressure application guage and control to set a continous amount of pressure on the brakes on a downgrade. In other words, when he started down the grade, he turned on the application control and that provided a continous amount of braking as he decended.
He could either increase or decrease the amount of braking as required. He actually did not use the brake treadle at all generally. This would mean that his brakes were on the whold time he was decending the grade.
As you are probably aware, there are two conflicting schools of thought on braking. One is to use the brakes lightly all the way down the grade, the other is to use the stab and release technique as Jim the chicken was doing.
My personal preference is to gear down to the point that engine compression along with the Jakes provide all the braking I need. Down the grapevine or any of the grades in Washington and Oregon, Colorado and all points west, I seldom, if ever apply the brakes. If the Jakes do not provide adequate braking, then I slow down and shift down to a lower gear until the Jakes will maintain the speed.
Maybe I am chicken also, but I have never even came close to having brake fade while travelling every major grade in the country several times.
Richard |
Buswarrior (Buswarrior) (64.229.210.73)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 9:16 pm: | |
Hello H3Jim.
If your bus ran away hard against the governor and shifted itself up a gear to protect the engine from destruction....
then you were going to fast.
Use the brakes to slow it down hard a little before 2100, let it build back up, and do it again, over and over and over until you get to the bottom. You should be off the brake more than you are on it, otherwise, slow down even more, and gear down to 2nd. The goal is to be coasting longer than you are braking.
The effect of speed on braking is exponential, doubling the speed quadruples the braking requirements, triple the speed, nine times the work for the brakes.
Tom, the brake valve is a valve, there is no feedback. The resistance to the travel of the pedal is from the return springs in the valve.
Brake fade is brake fade. The vehicle, regardless of brake type, does not slow down the way it usually does for a given brake application, inspiring you to push harder on the pedal to get it to slow down the way you wanted it too. Very scary when it doesn't respond the way you want it too. And you won't be too good at documenting the facts when you are scared....
Richard, good for you, excellent strategy for use of jakes.
Using the brakes all the way down the mountain will work just fine, IF you are going slowly enough to keep the temps below meltdown. How slow is that? The oldtimers were going downhill at 20 mph.... same as uphill..... lots easier on the brakes eh?
H3Jim, as for your driver friend, and I'm not trying to be nasty, but what is he basing his advice to you on? I'd be happier if you were suggesting you were getting advice from someone who has TAUGHT drivers successfully for many years, not someone who has fortunately not had the big one yet....
The engineers and other learned folks on here will back me up when I say personal experience is not necessarily the best instructor. Science and repeatable experiments are where the truth is found.
How many downhill brake experiments have you been involved in? How many reports of those experiments have you read? What do absolutely all of the modern reputable driving instruction manuals instruct new drivers to do?
From the content of your posts, I am concerned that you are going off half cocked, and misinformed. Fooling the DMV into giving you a licence is easy. Every high school drop out and new to the country immigrant that wanted to be a trucker has managed to do that.
Whether you intended for your posts to have an air of arrogant ignorance or not, well that's what my scotch irrigated eyes are seeing, so there's some feedback for you.
I am greatly concerned about the novice reader drinking this all in as gospel, and for your safety.
A relatively new Prevost with S60 and 6 speed Allison World doesn't come cheap, so you have to be fairly smart in some aspect of your life to come up with that cash.
Testing the transmission's engine protection features by letting the bus run away downhill is pretty stupid in my book.
Please spend a little more of your money and time and go get some proper professional instruction before you go out and wreck your bus or kill someone. Enroll in a good truck driving school, hire their best instructor on the side to go out with you in your bus, get some airbrake instruction whether the DMV wants it or not, learn something!
Go ahead and be pissed at me, and then get your bum enrolled somewhere.
Let me know you passed, that you learned something, thank me for being a prick, and we'll be friends again!
Or, maybe I missed the mark...darned scotch....
happy coaching!
buswarrior |
RJ Long (Rjlong) (66.229.97.200)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 9:44 pm: | |
Hey BW - lay off the scotch - it's cloudin' your normal diplomatic style!!
And Jim, since I'm just up I-5 and 99 a bit, I'll be glad to get together and work with you - we can go up and down the Bakersfield side of the Grapevine over and over again to learn! (In case you weren't aware, I was a bus driving instructor for over 10 years, back in my previous life. . .)
If you (or any other CA busnut) is interested in some driving skills help, just click on my name above to email me directly, and we'll talk.
HTH,
RJ
PD4106-2784
Fresno CA |
Buswarrior (Buswarrior) (64.229.210.73)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 9:55 pm: | |
Thank you RJ,
Good advice as always.
There you go H3Jim, RJ is the kind of calibre you're looking for.
It's ok to still be pissed at me.
happy coaching!
buswarrior |
ChuckMC9 (Chucks) (69.3.74.201)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 11:02 pm: | |
Buswarrior wrote:
"I am greatly concerned about the novice reader..."
Thank you, Buswarrior. Sincerely.
Only slightly post-novice,
-Chuck |
H3Jim (68.105.98.247)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 11:30 pm: | |
Bus Warrior
I'm not pissed, I just think that while well meaning, you missed the mark on me a little. You just don't really know who I am from these small amount of posts. Maybe your scotch, maybe I am just arrogant (although I was not intending to be) I guess its the height of arrogance to believe I am not arrogant.... I have generally had success (not the first time through) at anything I put my mind to.
I am cautious, and one reason I asked the board here, is that I did not feel comfortable with the advice my paid driver gave on that subject. He has Jakes on his truck, and I think he has come to depend on them. In reality, the bus was nowhere near runaway, I just always like to feel I'm in total control of my vehicle, and down that hill, I did not. I am seeking more information. - and a Jake.
I don't feel like I fooled the DMV, I drove very well today. I think their licensing parameters for RV's are too soft in my opinion. I will not let that lull me into not having control of my vehicle, or of knowing the best way to drive.
Given totally my own devices, I would have been following a strategy similar to what Richard described, but I thought I had an expert with me.
Sorry to the board (bored) readers since I got a little carried away here.
There is just something about buses that I really like. Glad I finally own one.
bus nuts |
Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (65.74.64.127)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 05, 2003 - 12:52 am: | |
Buswarrior, I always thought that I could feel the air applying to the chambers because I thought that there was a pulse of pressure from the treadle against my foot after a slight delay.
I also had the impression that it took noticeably less pressure on the treadle when the brakes were adjusted, but I see that it wouldn't take reaction pressure to do that, just spring pressure from pressing down harder on the pedal.
Now that you have said what you have, I will dig around until I am certain that I have a better understanding of how these valves work. I do have the service manual in front of me, but jargon and some lack of labeling are making the description of the operation a little hard to follow.
Thanks for your pointers. And I always enjoy your posts. And I may rethink the need of an application pressure gauge.
Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
Suncatcher |
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