| Author | Message | ||
| Johnny (63.159.193.65) Rating: |
OK, I probably have the most difficult heating problem on this board: long-nose schoolie, stock roof height, gas engine, lots of boondocking. I have a couple of externally-vented radiant heaters, but I know how quickly they dring the LP. So.............any suggestions? Preferably, space-efficient ones? | ||
| Scott Whitney (66.82.9.29) Rating: N/A |
What are your parameters? Fuel costs, duration of boondocking, simplest installation, etc. For hardcore boondocking, I'd think a wood burning stove would be the only way to go. If you have some money to spare, a Webasto would be nice. The fact that it is a skoolie and gas powered shouldn't really be too much of a factor, as we are all basically trying to heat a rectangular box with windows. Scott | ||
| Johnny (63.159.193.65) Rating: N/A |
Uhh, no woodstove. Don't Webastos require diesel fuel? | ||
| Scott Whitney (66.82.9.35) Rating: N/A |
Yes, Webastos burn diesel fuel. But just because your bus engine runs on gas, does not preclude you from having a diesel tank for heating, does it? | ||
| Johnny (63.159.193.65) Rating: N/A |
No...but I'd rather not do that if I don't have to. What about something similar that burns gasoline? | ||
| Robert Wood (Bobwoodsocal) (4.63.41.14)
Rating: N/A |
try this: http://www.espar.com/htm/airheat.htm don't try to cobble anything funky together with gasoline-don't use gasoline in a kerosene heater- improperly used gasoline heaters are also called BOMBS. hope you find what you are looking for, and be safe. | ||
| Terry Mac (67.233.187.61)
Rating: N/A |
why not a woodstove | ||
| FAST FRED (63.234.23.162) Rating: N/A |
If you will have electric an oil burner (air or water) will work. The big problem is the large number of windows , door air leaks , and usually not too great insulation. Either all that gets upgraded or you will burn loads of ANY fuel.And house oil is cheapest by far. I have used Dickinson Range or furnaces with great long term results , they burn oil by gravity feed and dont require ANY electric . Fire it off in late Oct & shut it off in May. Reflex , from Hamilton Marine is similar and avil in bigger sizes. FAST FRED | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.38)
Rating: N/A |
The unvented LP heaters are the choice of many, they are in wide use in RV's and converted buses. They have low oxy sensors and are many times as efficient as the RV furnaces that use 12v blowers. I heated my bus with BBQ bottles and one of those, most impressivle. Drawback is you produce moisture inside the bus that way, and can either deal with it or not. I came across a couple of RV LP heaters that do not use 12v, and seem to be much more efficient than the blower type RV furnaces, and are outside vented. They merely use convection to circulate. You will find that the LP furnaces from RV's take a LOT of battery to run that fan, and you become tied to a genset or power pole really quick. The Dickinson is an outstanding unit, but it seems the initial cost was high. I still vote for wood! | ||
| Scott Whitney (66.82.9.38) Rating: N/A |
Jonny, how long do you want to boondock for, in what temps, and what is your minimum frequency of having to make a refuel run to town? So many factors. . . If you don't want a diesel tank, and don't want to burn wood, seems like propane or kerosine are going to be your options. If you are going to do kerosine, might as well do diesel. If you are going to do propane, be prepared to spend some bucks on fuel and spend a bit of time running to town to refill it. That all assumes, of course, you will be in COLD temps. If you will be in mild temps and miser your thermostats, you can probably get away with propane catyltic heaters pretty well. They sip the juice and provide a nice warm radiant heat in close proximity, but do not really warm a large air space in really cold temps. I use one in the bedroom at night and it keeps the immediate area cosy and doesn't hog the fuel. But the rest of the bus is cold in the morning. For that I want either a diesel or a wood burner. Still debating the . . . Anyone know of a multi fuel unit that can do wood, pellets or diesel??? Scott | ||
| jmaxwell (66.81.58.115) Rating: N/A |
For quick, easy, and convenient, go with a free standing unvented LP unit. Upgrade it for whole bus heat with a blower. Many will argue that they are un-safe and I will agree that they make valid points; I won't concede their over-all conclusion. I have used one in my Grumman for 6 yrs., a 5-10k btu unit. I know of several other people that use them and thus far none of us are terminally dead. I am putting a larger one, 15K btu w/blower in my current conversion project (also have a forced air low profile 40K furnace and roof a/c's with 5k heat strips). I follow a few simple safety precautions. A 1" fresh air inlet below the burner, keep 1 window slightly cracked open, never leave it on when not in the coach or when sleeping for the night (buy a down comforter or use 12v bed warmers from Flyin-J). Many complain of the condensation; I personally have not had the problem. | ||
| Johnny (63.159.185.74) Rating: N/A |
My big objection to unvented LP heat is, indeed, safety. All the CO & CO2 has to go somewhere, and I'd rather that be outside. I don't want a woodstove for a multitude of reasons: they're HEAVY, and by definition, they don't heat evenly. Also, fuel can sometimes be a problem. They also tend to further the "hippie-bus" syndrome. I have a couple of vented space heaters, but I'd expect them to use lots of LP to heat everything. How big a job is installing a Webasto, & how long could I run it on 4 healthy T-105 golf cart batteries before firing up the genset? What kind of BTU's & fuel burn are we talking about with one? I assume they can safely run red (off-road) diesel or heating oil, since in many places, it's the same stuff as pump diesel except for the dye. Would the dye hurt it? Where does one purchase a Webasto (no e-bay)? | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (65.74.64.127)
Rating: N/A |
Johnny, a year ago George Lowry fired up his full hot water heating system for me because I wanted to know how much power it used. With everything running, IIRC, he was still under 10 amps. You can do the math to figure out the amp hours you would need in batteries to do the job. I was impressed because he was running the burner, circultating pump and three 9500 BTU toe-kick heaters at the same time. I did think it would take a lot more power than it actually did. He has the Aqua-hot or Hydro-hot, which uses the Webasto boiler. It uses 1/2 gallon of fuel or less when running, and that gives him over 50,000 BTUs input. For what it's worth. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher | ||
| FAST FRED (63.234.22.76) Rating: N/A |
Although its a bit more work (but less bucks) the oil furnace could be hooked to baseboard radiator tubing , instead of power hungry toe kick heaters. There are fine low draw circ pumps made by Marche that could be used to move the water/antifreez mix. The furnaces them selves will take some research to figgure out which has lowest operating amps , and starting amps. Some may still use a glow plug as the earky Espar units did which is a juge 25A juice hog. One gent used a RV cheap propane FW heater and a circ pump to finned tubing.Still stuck with the low btu of propane , but the amp draw was minor. Solar pannels could usually make it up daily. The big problem with wood is the inability to be gone for very long, some only hold enough fuel for O'night , nevermind a couple of days. Have you figured the temps you wish to be warm down to, it makes a big difference in the size unit you will need to purchase. FAST FRED | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (24.196.191.70)
Rating: N/A |
Based on actual experience, I have to disagree with the use of baseboard radiator heating, unless you plan on staying in the bus 24/7. I actually have (had) a Webasto heater with a combination of both style heat exchangers, I actually visited cold climates for extended periods of time and I actually had solar panels. With the toe kick heaters, you can turn the thermostat down to 55-60 when you leave the coach, especially it you are out of the coach most of the day, saving a considerable amount of fuel. Also, it is very easy to zone the heat to turn certain areas of the coach up or down in temperature as the need dictates. When you return, you simply turn up the thermostat and in a relatively short time, the coach is toasty warm again. It would take literally hours for the baseboard radiant type heaters to warm the bus up. I think it would also be difficult to have zones, due to the time required for the baseboard style heaters to respond to a different temperature setting. Due to the nature of winter weather and lots of cloudy/gloomy/snowy/rainy days, the solar panels provided little or no actual benefit. At least I generally had no readings on the solar charging ammeter (actual experience again). Some of this could have been due to the accumulation of snow on the panel. LOL The starting current on the igniter of the Webasto is miniscule, and is only on for a couple of seconds, at the most, when the furnace first fires. Although it is a high voltage spark, it does not consume a high amount of power (high voltage, low amperage). It does not need to be calculated into the amount of power required to operate the system. The circulating pump in my Webasto was more than adequate to circulate the hot water thru the system and no auxiliary pump was needed. Also, the system was very quiet. Even with the furnace running, you had to be standing near the exhaust, which had no odor, to even tell if it was on. Unless the advice provided is based on actual experience, I suggest you take it with a grain of salt. Richard | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.11)
Rating: N/A |
What did you find for dependability and current useage Richard, any rough guides as to how long a particular battery bank would last? Based on what people TELL me, no practical experience myself, the toe kick heaters at least in early days had a dismal service life, as did the webasto unit in the Aquahots, most people had a backup heater for that reason. Again the current draw was always complained about when left for a few days. | ||
| Johnny (63.159.202.56) Rating: N/A |
Low temps would be a New England winter--30's/40's during the day, down anywhere from the high 20's to low teens at night. "It uses 1/2 gallon of fuel or less when running" Tom, I assume that is per hour? Nobody makes a Webasto-equivilant that burns gasoline? | ||
| Johnny (63.159.202.56) Rating: N/A |
Also, will red diesel or a 90/10 #2/K1 mix hurt a Webasto? | ||
| Johnny (63.159.202.56) Rating: N/A |
Robert Wood: Thanks for the link! That looks like what I'm looking for--Espar heaters can burn diesel, K1, or gasoline. They all need electrical power (3.3-9.6 amps at 12V)...hmm. On the plus side, if I can figure a way to deal with that, they're not very large (not much bigger than my stock rear heater--25x10x9.5"). Any educated guesses at the minimum BTU's needed to keep me warm in 25-degree weather? Please bear in mind my always-cold wife. | ||
| Robert Wood (Bobwoodsocal) (4.63.41.14)
Rating: N/A |
you are very welcome, happy to help. your btu needs will vary depending on how well insulated you are. you will probably want the 41k. is your bus full size? BTW, i have no experience with the espar. for my bus, i am looking for a webasto, proheat or espar 12v diesel hydronic type. i beat my brains out trying to find a cheap way to go with propane heat, but without a huge tank you are in trouble if caught in a cold spell, and my bones don't like the cold! i already have a large diesel tank... one last thing, you may want to price the espar air heaters, you might change your mind. | ||
| FAST FRED (63.234.20.205) Rating: N/A |
Every coach is different , what heats a GM (BTU per deg) may not be correct for anything else. Simplest is to measure the heat performance of YOUR coach . Get a really good thermometer and a electric heater or two. Measure the temp in the coach after one or two Non thermostat electric heaters have been on all night. Then go outside and measure the OAT (outside air temp) before sun up. The watts printed on the nomenclature plate of the heaters will be close enough if the voltage stays up while the heater is on. The watts to BTU conversion is simple. Whatever the temp diferental (D/T) between the outside and inside temps are will require that amount of heat . Mostly the relationship is linear , so needing 80 deg of rise (70F inside and -10 outside ) could be figgured from the info you generate. Having heated (a boat) thru 22+ NY winters , I am well aware of the limitations of most bus heaters. All were designed for an operating coach with 14.4 V and draw more than the "published" amps when on either a float charger or GASP on the battery bank alone. Having LIVED ABOARD for all 22 years , any system that maintains a constant temp is far easier to live with (at higher fuel cost) than an up & down bouncing temp. While the air inside can sometimes be brought up to temp easily , the seats , table and walls & bed will take a long time to return to comfortable ,. No fun coming home and dining in a cold chair at a cold table, then slipping into a cold bed. Baseboard heat , is still installed on my vessel , the Espar went to the dump long ago after constant failures. No fun to come home to a frozen home after a 3 day trip. I still recomend the marine oil furnace , or range requiring NO electric to operate flawlessly month after month. Yes, it does require a smoke stack (4 or 5in dia) thru the roof , but I know of no finer way to go an entire winter with only fuel & gravity. FAST FRED | ||
| Robert Wood (Bobwoodsocal) (4.63.41.14)
Rating: N/A |
look at these, i like the flame window one, reminds me of a pellet stove, which my new home will have: http://www.boatownersworld.com/heaters.htm wish i could get a heater that cheap! i looked at these a while back myself, but i need automatic controls, etc, cuz i'm a paraplegic. and yes, i drive my bus. Johnny, if you decide to carry diesel also, this could be the ticket. diesel is safer too. all the best my friends! Bob | ||
| Robert Wood (Bobwoodsocal) (4.63.41.14)
Rating: N/A |
also, right now i'm using 2 mr. buddy portable heaters, propane, no elec, unvented, with the hoses for 5 gal bottles. last a few days. i have to keep the window opened slightly, thats important. they work ok, but i am in CA and no way would i use these in the real cold. on sale 80 bucks at amazon.com. ok for light camping and for some heat during conversion. Bob | ||
| Robert Wood (Bobwoodsocal) (4.63.41.14)
Rating: N/A |
i meant the bottles last a few days, not the heaters. they work great so far, had them since last year. | ||
| Johnny (63.159.202.56) Rating: N/A |
I didn't see prices on the site--what do the Espar heaters run, moneywise? Also, what kind of amp draw do the Dickinson heaters have? If it's on the site, I sure can't find it. They seem pretty good: they'll burn diesel or kerosene, not too big (25" high, 13" wide for the 16K BTU model, even smaller--and cheaper--for a 16K combination heater/stove), and the prices seem reasonable ($500 or so). | ||
| Johnny (63.159.202.56) Rating: N/A |
FF--What's the watts to BTU conversion? | ||
| Scott Whitney (66.82.9.40) Rating: N/A |
I don't think there is a conversion. Depends on the efficiency of the electrical device creating heat, no? | ||
| FAST FRED (63.234.23.154) Rating: N/A |
The dickinson show NO listing for electric use as they use no electric , the reason for my recomending them in the first place. Neatest is their range of oil ranges , so with the heat you get to cook or bake for free. The Pacific fits a 22 wide cut out.About $1K street price. To convert watts to BTU 1500W equals 5200btu,in most electric heaters As these are resistance , everything gives off heat (even the plug in the line cord) so the efficency doesn't get into it. The fuel use in a Dickinson WILL be higher per BTU than a fancy unit with combustion chamber fans ,high pressure pumps , and a big need for lots of electric, but I have always found it far easier to hump a few extra 5 gal jugs each winter , than worry about the electric being out for a few days. Its SO nice to come home to a warm palace. Works for me (and yes there is a Pacific range going in the new boat), I do HATE the cold. FAST FRED | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (65.74.64.127)
Rating: N/A |
Yes, Johnny, that is 1/2 gallon per hour. Of course, that fuel is only being used when the burner runs. Usually, diesel is the most economical liquid fuel to use for heat, so it's hard to beat for heavy duty heating. One thing that you get out of having a fan run is improved evenness of temperature from floor to ceiling. We have a boat with a Dickinson stove like Fast Fred mentions and when it is cold outside, the floor is hard to warm without something to churn the air. One way the Webasto will improve economy is the Dickinson cannot be turned down very far in mild weather or it will soot up, but a unit with a burner controlled by a thermostat does not have any trouble maintaining a low temperature. The main problem is reliability. That's where the Dickinson can really seem attractive. Add a fan for when you're in your bus to circulate air and you can probably be pretty comfortable. One watt equals 3.413 BTU. For what it's worth. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (65.74.64.127)
Rating: N/A |
I should have said that one watt hour equals 3.413 BTU. Sorry about that. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (24.196.191.70)
Rating: N/A |
Don, I never really run any tests to determine how long my battery bank would last. I had four 8-D's and they were good for a couple of days, I'm sure it I did nothing else. But with cooking and other power uses, I typically would run my genset a couple of hours a day, depending on what the battery voltage actually was. The reliability of the Webasto was excellent. I only had one problem in over ten years of operation and that was my fault. I did some welding on the frame and it damaged a control box in the Webasto. The Webasto manual CLEARLY states to remove all electrical connections before doing any welding on the frame, but I neglected to do that. Richard | ||
| Jerry (198.81.26.38)
Rating: N/A |
My Experience with Webasto's -- GREAT! I like doing a lot of boondocking & try to keep diesel and electric consumption to a minimum. My Hydro-Hot system also heats domestic hot water with an internal heat exchanger no storage but can make it faster than I can use it. In acutal use when no space heating is required I can turn off the burner switch and have nearly a days worth of hot water for small things like washing hands & stuff without having to burn diesel fuel or consume battery power to keep the coolant at its normal 180 degrees. I have also found that even if I want to shower in a "cold" (50's or higher) bus within 3 minutes of turning on the diesel heat switch I've water hot enough to begin taking a shower. | ||
| Doug Dickinson (Dougd470) (24.207.240.13)
Rating: N/A |
One more thing to add to the heat issue - that of moving the heat around. Some of that will take care of itself through convection. You might have to add a little to make it all circulate enough to make the whole interior comfortable. For me - I like the WHOLE room to be about the same temp. In my house, I used to really enjoy baseboard heat in the winter - even and comfortable. Now my house has forced hot air - not quite as good in my book. As a thought, you might want to get some 12 or 24 volt muffin fans from a computer supply house. You see them on sale all the time. Get ones that move a gentle amount of air or you will see too much wind, or too much current draw to be worth while. Use one or two (or how many you may need) and you have a low current fan to move air around and equalize temps from one side of the room to another. I hate the cold too. Why did I move out of Florida? That's another issue for another day. Doug St Louis MC9 | ||
| mark (66.43.13.2) Rating: N/A |
This is a question for anybody that uses a Dickenson oil fired heater in their boat or bus. I went to their web site and looked at the spec's etc. Right there in BOLD red print, under the heading of "WARNING", it says something like "Do not operate while unattended" Does'nt that make their heater a little impractical? It sure doesn't give me much confidence in their product. I've never seen that type of warning on an LP furnace! Is there reason for concern that the oil furnace could malfunction while your'e away (or asleep)? If you own one of these heaters, what kind of problems have you had? Thanks for the input!! mark 75 Gillig 636D | ||
| FAST FRED (63.234.21.186) Rating: N/A |
The overabundance of liars for hire are the reason for most Mfg.warning labels. In the movies cigarettes were called CANCER STICKS in the 1930's , yet the states reaped billions in extortion from the "Suprise" that cigarettes cause cancer in 1990! There are only 2 malfunctions that the Dickinsons may have (I was one of first US dealer in 1970's to import from Canada). The fuel feed sometimes gets plugges up (3 months or so ) and the fire will not come up very high . The cure is to remove a 1/4 inch plug and ream the inlet with the provided tool. Takes under a min . Second is there is a posability of the unit being blown out by an errant gust of wind. This only seems to happen to units that are not installed with a barometric damper (as the instructions require) and a poor choice of smoke heads. The std Bridet top is fine IF there is nothing to disturb the wind within about 3 or 4 ft of the cap. The H head works better , even with downdrafts from sails , and would be prefered in a very treed location where downdrafts are possable. Folks that want to operate in very low heat can use half kerosene in the fuel . On boats the problem is in the spring the days warm up , but the water is still Very cold , so every night , into May in the NYC area , heat is still needed. The Antartic floor model works great and is also avilable with water heating coils , should someone want constant hot domestic water while the furnace is on. I chose a 7 turn coil inside the unit and circ thru about 20 ft of 3/4 baseboard using only thermo syphon, no pump but gravity. Not practical on a coach as the required hight to the top of the system is too low, and it might look a bit wierd as the piping MUST all be gently pitched . Fits fine in the cabinets and shelving in a boat , but unfortunatly wont work. Happily coaches do not have 4 compartment subdavision and collision bulkheads . There are fans that can be stuck on the top surface of the heater/ range that use no electric (just the heat from the surface) to blow circ air. FAST FRED | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (24.196.191.70)
Rating: N/A |
Doug, I also like baseboard heat in a home for the evenness of the heat. However, I typically did not turn the heat down much at night or try and zone the heat so that sometimes the bedroom did not have heat, and other times it did. In a coach, the use of baseboard heating would be fine if you wanted to maintain a relatively constant heat thruout the vehicle the majority of the time. However, to conserve fuel, the ability to turn the baseboard heat down in certain or all areas for a few hours and then turn it back up is not as practible as it is with forced air. It just seems to take too long for the vehicle to recover to a normal temperature. All of my blowers were on a three speed control so if i wanted faster heat I could turn them on high, but in practice, I seldom did this. They remained on low, and practically noiseless, the majority of the time. Richard | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.19)
Rating: N/A |
I recently suggested to a friend that he use baseboard heat with his Webasto in his Eagle. He did this and is thrilled with the results. Even heat, no need for blowers, keeps it constant temp with no hot air blowing on you, etc. As most of us old codgers, cold becomes an enemy and we want it that way ALL the time. The idea came from when I was converting in the freezing god forsaken area of North America aka Kansas. I had tried several methods of heating the shell to be able to work on the bus in the winters, the best was free. My brother had rescued from the trash dumpster a 240v baseboard heater unit, maybe 8 ft long. It was very compact and would not catch stuff on fire, so I hooked it up. I ran it all winter, day and night, for two years, my electric bill did not seem to even notice. The bus interior was always very comfortable, and my friend had noticed that and wanted to duplicate that comfort. | ||
| Jim Ashworth (Jimnh) (172.174.2.33)
Rating: N/A |
I've used baseboard in two conversions and love it. As has been said, it is very even, but I disagree with the perception that it has minimal ability to recover after being turned down. With 790 BTU's per foot, I have 25 feet in the living area. That gives me almost 20,000 BTU in that area. Thats the equivalent of 3 toespace blowers at 7000 BTU each or two at 10,000 each. I also have baseboard in the bedroom. The living and bed/bath areas each have their own thermostat. The bath has no practical wall space so I have a 7000 BTU blower in there. I also have a 7000 BTU blower to heat the windshield/entry area. The blowers are on thermostatic snap-discs sensing the temperature of the pipe and come on when the water gets to 160 degrees. The only thing that would improve this system is the use of a small amount of radiant heat beneath the marble flooring in the bath & kitchen just to take the chill out of the floor. But that would be true with any other heat source. Jim | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A |
Can someone post a link for these baseboard units? Maybe someone already did and I'm brain-Dead. Had a head cold since Thursday, was down all weekend. Gary | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.30)
Rating: N/A |
I think they all came from Graingers Gary, might check their Ecatalog. Some come in cut apart lengths, slice em and make em fit, some in stock lengths. | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A |
I salvaged the big automotive type units out of the bird, What do you guys think of these? I think they will be a pain to get installed, but shoule heat very well. Gary | ||
| Jim Ashworth (Jimnh) (172.171.253.43)
Rating: N/A |
The ones I used are made by Sterling (www.sterlinghvac.com/Sterling%20Residential/senior/seniorrate.htm will get you to the specs page). The model is Kom-Pak. Plumbing wholesalers in your area should carry them or the equivalent. Home Depot DOES NOT carry equivalent hydronic baseboard. Don't buy it there. Jim | ||
| Johnny (63.159.197.118) Rating: N/A |
JimH: I assume you heat the baseboards with a Webasto? If not, how do you do it? How large are they (height & depth)? | ||
| Jim Ashworth (Jimnh) (172.147.71.135)
Rating: N/A |
Yes, a Webasto 40,000 BTU model 2010. The baseboards are (per the website) 2-23/32" wide by 8-1/2" high. They don't interfere with the couch or tables in that many couches are tapered away from the wall at the bottom. If I ordered a new conversion from any converter, I would spec that it have baseboard heat. If they couldn't (wouldn't) do it, I'd shop elsewhere. By the way, I am not in the market for a brand new conversion!  Jim | ||
| Stephen Fessenden (Sffess) (65.154.176.85)
Rating: N/A |
Espar made a gasoline unit with a turbofan for NATO UNIMOG radio trucks. 24 volts to start. No current needed to run it. Works like a coleman stove once started. I have a new or rebuilt one from the German Military if you are interested. Personally, I do not like the idea of heating with gasoline, but it should be similar in cost to diesel since diesel has only about a 15 percent more BTUs per gallon and you are only looking at BTUs with a heater, not engine efficiency. I have not listed this in the flea market since I don't think it is ideal for bus conversions. It is designed to be externally mounted, using outside air and circulating inside air isolated from the combustion. | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (24.196.191.70)
Rating: N/A |
Back in the 40's a company called West Bend I believe made gasoline heaters to install in automobiles. They really worked great and were mounted under the dashboard on the firewall. Richard | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.36)
Rating: N/A |
South Wind I think was the name Richard, I have one laying in the shop. | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.36)
Rating: N/A |
Mornings like this make me think I don't have alzheimers after all Richard, look at this, I was right!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2206412411&category=418#ebayphotohosting | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (24.196.191.70)
Rating: N/A |
Well, I was either half right, or half wrong. LOL That was why I put the qualifier in. I didn't think it sounded quite right, but just could not think what it was. At least I had the year correct. I put one in my 37 Plymouth and it really put out a lot of heat. Don't remember price of gasoline then but it was probably around $.19 per gallon. Where is the cents mark on this stupid computer? Richard | ||
| Scott Whitney (69.35.6.233) Rating: N/A |
Here it is: ¢ I know your question was retorhical, but FYI, you can get any character you want by clicking Start --> Programs --> Accessories --> System Tools --> Character Map. Then you select, copy and paste the special character. Comes in handy for speaking Latin, Arabic and Greek too! Scott | ||
| Scott Whitney (69.35.6.233) Rating: N/A |
FF, The Dickenson prices start at around five Ben Franklins. But after adding the accessories, I think the price is going to get up there. Do we need the electric fuel pump at $100+ or can a guy rig a tank above the stove and gravity feed it? I see you keep mentioning no elec., so wonder if gravity can provide the proper psi. And if so, how do you regulate it so that a full tank is not over pressureized and a near empty tank is underpressurized? Or is the fuel pump elec so minimal that you factor it out in your "no elec" statements? Also, can it be run while underway or would the highway speed drafts be a problem? Lastly, what are the different deck caps they sell - the catalogs don't explain what what the differences are i.e. which would be best for typical RV usage. Scott P.S. any thoughts on making a block heater work in conjunction with a Dickenson? | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (24.196.191.70)
Rating: N/A |
Thanks Scott. Guess it is not the computer that is so dumb, just the operator. LOL Richard | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (65.74.64.127)
Rating: N/A |
Scott, You're right, the extras do add up! As far as the gravity feed is concerned, it's no problem. Anywhere from one to four psi will work fine. Generally in boats, the day tank is placed on the cabin roof. In our boat, that's four or five feet above the stove. Our engine return fuel is sent to the day tank and the overflow from that tank goes back to the main fuel tank. It's about 2 2/3 feet per psi, so we're right at 2 psi. You ought to see how slight the pressure is from the control to the oil burner. When allowing for fuel consumption, most people around here use two gallons a day for all cooking and heating, including hot water. We have about 15 gallons and one time when it was cold out, the day tank ran out in 3 weeks. I think it works just fine and it's very simple to use. Draft can be a problem, but most of that can be solved by adjusting the height of the stovepipe cap and using a barometric draft regulator. I would guess that most of the time, I wouldn't use the stove underway if this was a problem. To preheat the engine would require using a heat exchanger and circulator, and heat already stored in a tank of water, I believe, because the total heat output of the stove is typically only 10,000 BTU. You can turn it up, but most of the heat will wind up in the passenger area. For what it's worth. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher | ||
| FAST FRED (65.154.177.119) Rating: N/A |
These units are fine with gravity feed . Busses would be hard pressed to mount the tank over 11ft above the burner (5psi). The smoke head MUST be removed for travel ,and the deck iron capped/ use the heater & defroster from the coach underway. These units are best suited to the long term hard winter NO electric camper. If you need warm towels , genset pre heat , engine pre heat . fuel warming ect , a system with a circ pump might be better choice. In sub zero weather the units can consume 4 gal per day.And at only 20,000 BTu each it may take more than just one to heat a leaky teaky. FAST FRED | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.48)
Rating: N/A |
And don't forget, you have to shut it off whenever you leave the bus anyway per manufacturers directives. Not so bad for a boat on the high sea, pain in certain places for a bus I feel. | ||
| FAST FRED (63.234.22.76) Rating: N/A |
I have used them for over 18 winters with never shutting them off , and have been happy to return home to a warm home , even after a sked 2 day trip became 4 days. The units with a pressure kerosene burner are poor on reliability (really just stove parts), but these (Antartic)with cast iron burner are fine for long term liveaboard . FAST FRED | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.36)
Rating: N/A |
Still, I would check with your insurance company, simply ask them if it is OK with them to install and leave on, unattended, a stove whose manufacturer clearly states in large red letters "DO NOT OPERATE THIS PRODUCT UNATTENDED". You might even add that this product was never designed nor recommended for use in an RV. | ||
| FAST FRED (63.234.22.210) Rating: N/A |
The use of house trailer stuff is always a poor choice for an RV. As trailers sit and seldom if ever see the roads. Since the LLoyds test just for hull Mfg certification is to pick the boat up and drop it 15 ft into the water, its almost equal to the Cross Bronx Expressway. Boat stuff is usually far superior to RV stuff , with only aircraft specs being higher. ( Although both boat and aircraft are not "accepted" by the garbage RVIA code.) AS Always you chose your best method of problem solving , or die trying. Although as the resident Expert has proven its always better to sell your RV to the insurance company while "not " aboard. FAST FRED | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.69)
Rating: N/A |
Ohhhhh, really low blow there Fred! Your statement "with only aircraft specs being higher", was missing only one word, "priced", seemed to have gotten cut off the end there. A Lycoming uses the same alternator that came on a Plymouth Valiant, but the price is 10 times as much. Go figure. | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.79.46)
Rating: N/A |
"A Lycoming uses the same alternator that came on a Plymouth Valiant..." No kidding? Gary | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.26)
Rating: N/A |
Yep, same old thing, take a close look. Well, they CLAIM the fan blade on the front is different, goes the opposite direction. Take a close look next time, many are using the car fan, what the heck difference dies it make when you are blowing along at 140 knots. I WILL qualify that by saying they did that in the 60's, dunno what they are using with new stuff. | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (65.40.154.50) Rating: N/A |
Throwing my two pennies in, very often the marine industry does the exact same thing that Don talking about. Insist on marine parts for that Ford Chevy Chrysler marine engine and a mechanic will laugh at you behind your back. Of course the MARINE mechanic would never do that... Brian | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (65.40.154.50) Rating: N/A |
Don, I missed your mention of the southwind earlier in the thread, and had to sneak out to the garage and lift the hood on my 62 VW. Clearly marked the label states INSTANT HEATER Volkswagen of America, Stewart Warner, aparently these gasoline heaters were sold and installed by VW dealers in the 50's and 60's I bought two, one a six volt model one a twelve volt, to make one... Sounds amazingly like one of Whittle's early jet engines when its running, just not as loud. Brian | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.44)
Rating: N/A |
Well troops, we did it again. Converted a question on heating methods into car parts used on airplanes and boats discussion. How do we do that anyway? | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (65.40.154.50) Rating: N/A |
It's like breathing, it just happens...for the most part! Brian | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.79.46)
Rating: N/A |
At least it wasn't me this time. Gary | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.43)
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Yeah, but you CONTRIBUTED to it, that is guilt by implication or something. | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.79.46)
Rating: N/A |
Guilt by association, but that means you guys are contributing to my delinquency, an area where I don't need any help. Gary | ||
| Johnny (63.159.120.82) Rating: N/A |
"Well troops, we did it again. Converted a question on heating methods into car parts used on airplanes and boats discussion. How do we do that anyway?" Uhh...because most of us have or will have at least one boat and/or aircraft part on their conversion? | ||
| jim mci-9 (209.240.205.60) Rating: N/A |
some fo us are doing both a boat ad a bus... gary???/ | ||
| FAST FRED (65.154.177.53) Rating: N/A |
"Uhh...because most of us have or will have at least one boat and/or aircraft part on their conversion? " I have all boat CG aproved wiring and AC or DC switches and AC or DC circuit breakers , and a marine washdown pump for domestic water, and marine water heater , and marine "box heater" for heat underway. The only aircraft part of note is the post vent. GM didnt spec 50 year plastic , so an Eyeball vent from the aircraft guys (aluminum superbly machined), yes at aircraft pricing is installed. It does close completly , a delight in winter. There are reasons to purchase the best if your lazy, you only have to do it once , and properly rated electrics keeps the fire dept watching TV. FAST FRED | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (65.74.64.127)
Rating: N/A |
Fast Fred, how does that heat powered fan work? I haven't run across one of those yet, and I would really like to know more about it. Thanks. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher | ||
| FAST FRED (63.234.22.93) Rating: N/A |
The inlaws have a fan unit on their fireplace for 4 or 5 years now. Will ask where it was purchased, but I think in the local fireplace store. Tis the season to get tons of cataloges in the mail. Some of the yuppy places like Vermont Country Store might list them. Or the fireplace Mfg , esp the Eco freaks with cat converters in the exhaust stack, should have a list of fan mfg. FAST FRED | ||
| mark (66.43.13.98)
Rating: N/A |
Hi, Tom The fan you are talking about is a small unit that can sit on top of a woodstove. It is powered by the heat from the stove. (thermo-electric?) Although it does not move LOTS of air, it does improve on the ability of a radiant type of woodstove to move the heat away from the stove. I think they go for around $60 - $80 FWIW mark |
