| Author |
Message |
John Rigby (24.174.235.149)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 8:29 pm: | |
I recall using a vinager mixture to flush, could I get some input on flushing my 4104/671 system now its down.
Thanks john |
FAST FRED (63.234.21.186)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 5:27 am: | |
Your friendly DD dealer has a nice 2 part cleanerthat will clear out the system , of old SCA and other accumulated gunk.
Rinse after neutralizing at least 2 or 3 times , as crud may continue to break loose & get carried out.
Refill with at least 1/3 Diesel antifreez and 2/3 distilled water, for best cooling.
Use mo antifreez if needed for freez protection , but remember its costing heat transfer ability, so you won't cool as well.
Turn on the heater valves for coach heat and drivers heat/defroster if still installed, these need flushing too.
After the final refill be sure to bleed the air as Da Book shows.
FAST FRED |
BrianMCI96A3 (65.40.154.50)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 11:29 pm: | |
I read an interesting article the other day entitled:
Why do good radiators go bad quickly.
The article details the failure of an OEM replacement radiator in a truck after less than two months in service.
The company who did the repairs were so concerned they called in experts who had the radiator shipped to a lab, along with a sample of the coolant in the system, along with some tap water.
The findings...
THE COOLANT... The company that installed the radiator filled the cooling system with 26% antifreeze.
They used a quality coolant with premixed sca's in it, but as the antifreeze premix was manufactured with a 50-50 mixture as the basis for it's sca levels, the reduced sca's (approx.62PPM) left the system unprotected once the level of sca's dropped in the system. As tested the sca's in the coolant were at 9 PPM, when optimally it should have been 125PPM
THE TAP WATER... the tap water as tested was found to be similar to other drinking water around the nation. High in sulfate, chloride, and medium levels of calcium and magnesium (unlike Vegas water which is as hard as a rock) but unacceptable as coolant make up water.
THE RADIATOR... detailed analysis (and photos) clearly show corrosion as the culprit in the failure
The reccomendation is: unless you test your city water, purified water is the best bet, or an antifreeze bought premixed to 50-50 with water.
Use 50-50 mixing ratio
Antifreeze is formulated for this ratio when corrosion inhibitor levels are calculated. Generally 250PPM sca's in full strength antifreeze
with the optimal 125PPM at 50-50
Maintain your coolant: In constant use antifreeze should be checked, using the appropriate test strips
or pyrometer (HYDROMETERS or floating balls were removed from the approved list of testing devices a few years ago), about once every three months. At the same time, using the right strips, test your sca levels, and add sca's if needed.
Their reccomendation is also to flush the system and change out your antifreeze every 24 months/30,000 miles
Pretty amazing stuff, I think.
BUT, I also think you COULD use one part antifreeze to two parts purified water...IF you add sca's (Pencool 2000 for instance) to the mixture to bring their level up to snuff utilizing test strips, but that's just ME... and DON'T overdo the sca's or they'll fall out of solution and THAT can be a big mess.
I'll probably do a 50-50 mixture in my cooling system, though.
Brian |
Robert Wood (Bobwoodsocal) (4.63.41.14)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 12:53 am: | |
ok, dumb question... what are SCA's? thanks, Bob |
FAST FRED (63.233.189.70)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 5:40 am: | |
When thre diesel fires that "sound" you hear is the cylinder walls ringing like a bell.
The vibration can cause the water in the coolant to cavitate , leaving an air pocket next to the cylinder wall.
As it collapses it scours (EATS) the metal of the cylinder. So the cylinders get disolved from the outside in. Much Ungood.
Also the air bubble next to the cylinder wall is an insulator , so the engine may locally run hot.
SCA is Suplimental Cooling Addative , the usually green slime.
Nothing can stop the cavitation , the slime simply moves it a few thousands away from contacting the cylinder , so the slime gets cavitated , and replaces it self immediatly.
The DD design is so old that Da Book allows simple water (distilled is best) , but as noted there is lots more in antifreez (anti corrosion , anti foaming (wetting agent), anti cavitation ect.
The newest engines from other mfg are very sensative to coolant issues as there very highly stressed.
The test strips only need to be used monthly ,a good idea as they go bad in the container over time.
FAST FRED |
Nelson Thomas (205.188.209.8)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 4:49 pm: | |
It's my understanding that the 671 DD isn't subject to the cavitation problem. I'm not sure about other DD models.
Nelson Thomas, Knoxville |
jim mci-9 (209.240.205.60)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 8:49 pm: | |
its called "cavitation erosion"..... ive seen $150k engines ruined because of poor maintainence... in addition to the liner pitting, the block is eroded also.... proper conditioning the coolant will help prevent this....it is a result of microscopic bubbles imploding on the block and liner surface...i did an inframe on a 3412 caterpillar, a 12 cylinder, twin turbo engine 800hp plus.. with less than 3000 hrs on it as a result of cavitation erosion....on the largest platform.. the hoover diana.... in the gulf of mexico....160 miles south of galveston.. 5000 feet of the blue-est water you've ever seen....the block was cut right above where the o-rings on the liners seal at the bottom.... |
Geoff (Geoff) (66.238.120.53)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 9:11 pm: | |
Detroit 71 series are not subject to "liner" cavitation since they have dry liners, but the bores that the liners fit into can have cavitation problems from the inside out. I have thrown blocks away that had pin hole(s) from the bore to the liner, letting water into the oil.
--Geoff
'82 RTS CA |
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