| Author | Message | ||
| Michael J Ryan (Mjryan) (67.41.243.141)
Rating: N/A |
In a few weeks I will need to skin over the window area of my AMG bus. I have read the post (Aluminum to Steel Insulation) below about rivets. My question is what type and size do I use? I do not have a helper so I thought some type of pop rivet would be right. The bus has a lot of 3\16 big pop rivets now, the ones that have a core showing in the center of the rivet. Also any info on what type of material would be helpfull. Michael | ||
| TWO DOGS (66.90.216.142) Rating: N/A |
I just did my Eagle...used 16 ga. galvinized metal..had a sheet metal shop cut it to exact size I wanted...I used 1/8 STEEL pop rivits...every 4"...you REALLY need a helper,and you REally need the air pop rivit gun at harbor freight ,and you really need a section of scafolding(I think you can rent them)...some say butyl,some say sikaflex,I used home depo construction adhesive....there will be lots of advise on this subject...I blocked off 6 windows ,used 1000 pop rivits,cost me about 175.00 | ||
| TWO DOGS (66.90.216.142) Rating: N/A |
two men...8 hours...no breaks..with scafolding,air pop rivit gun,after I got the first panel installed...saw where the holes needed to be ,and pre-drilled the other 5 panels on the sawhorses,all at one time,stick a pop rivit in the holes just to keep everything allined,also I used (6) 9/64 drill bits.. | ||
| J.L.Vickers (209.34.15.19) Rating: N/A |
Better buy some clecos and cleco pliers Makes the job very easy. | ||
| Steve Gibbs (165.154.140.10)
Rating: N/A |
Michael, Contact Rick at Byler and talk to him about shavehead rivets. They look great and because they are bulbtite design they have a very wide grip range so the same rivet will work with varying depths. They also have a rubber gasket to allow them to be installed against steel. FWIW Steve G. MC9 Pontiac | ||
| TWO DOGS (66.90.216.142) Rating: N/A |
I have some...metal I used was too heavy..clecos would not hold,just drill first hole in the middle of the top section put a rivit in & work "out" | ||
| jim mci-9 (209.240.205.60) Rating: N/A |
i'm planning on skinning my mci-9 over the christmas holiday... as long as the weather is good.... i'm planning on using 3/16 by .375 reach aluminim shave head rivets... byler quoted me 22 cents each in 1000 quanity plus tax and shipping... planning on using 16 gage mild steel for the pnels... i've got lots of clecos... planned on pre-drilling sheets for a patters... was going to use a bead of silicone for the contact....ive got an air pop rivet gun... nibblers...shears.. and a deck covering the back of my pickup.... | ||
| TWO DOGS (66.90.218.77) Rating: N/A |
atta boy Jim...I like silicone too...really some nice stuff to work with these days,silicone,pop rivits,the right tools,WOW !....when I was a kid all I had to play with was a rock and a stick, and the stick was made out of a rock....22 cents each.....boy,you can tell who has buckets of money...the CAT people | ||
| R.C.Bishop (128.123.221.167)
Rating: N/A |
Might want to check to see if what you are using is paintable....it only takes a little mess up to be a BIG mess. Urethane cleans up very easily with solvent, is paintable in the forms I have seen, and is easily removed if one gets a little wild. Price is good too. FWIW  BTDT RCB '64 Crown | ||
| R.C.Bishop (128.123.221.167)
Rating: N/A |
BTW....if you haven't already commited to the price of the rivets, I paid CONSIDERABLY less per M for 1/4 inch Alum, 1/2 draw at Byler last Summer. They will negotiate. I had been quoted a price by a competitor and Rick beat that. Again...FWIW RCB | ||
| madbrit (216.67.216.8) Rating: N/A |
I just lowered the roof on my Freightliner 15 inches. The factory rivets were bucked 3/16th solid aluminum. Had to drill them out as they were so tight in the holes in the extrusion. Been framing in the the door opening and step area today. Called around and was having difficulty finding a 3/16 with a 1/4 grip in an aluminum/steel mandrel format. Spoke to Grumman who made the body and they said a Pop type rivet should be fine. I double riveted the vertical galv "Z" ribs and replaced all the bucked ones with the Pop type. They went in at 2" centers. The body had no insulation between the galv and the skin, no corrosion. Maybe the galv does the trick? The aluminum skin has a look of a clear coating on the inside, is this how they did it? Bought a bunch of 3/16 x 3/16 aluminum/steel for the back wall on E*** for $10.95/200. Peter. | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (65.40.154.50) Rating: N/A |
Jim, RCB is right, better make sure what you are using is paintable. I wouldn't use silicone, it's too hard to clean up thoroughly and I mean spick and span...because paint will not stick to it... so as RCB says, a big mess. Brian | ||
| jim mci-9 (209.240.205.60) Rating: N/A |
what about butyl????... after my trip today, i'm considering aluminum panels instead of steel... same gage.. 16..but cover 2 window openings at a time...that way i need 3 sheets on each side, instaed of 6... same number of rivets.... | ||
| TWO DOGS (66.90.212.252) Rating: N/A |
butyl works good,,,,very messy to work with...plan on wearing 1/2 of it home with you,two windows at a time ,I'd say you need 3 people...it was hard for me to get one window at a time,and I had an ironworker helping me..even at one window at a time I worried about puckering,two windows at a time ,should be three times as bad... | ||
| R.C.Bishop (128.123.221.212)
Rating: N/A |
Hey, guys (southern greeting, of course) I used Butyl this week for the first time, as a result of reading this thread, BTW....have always used either PL urethane or Sika products. Dos Perros is right. Butyl is very messy to work with and gets messy-er the longer it is exposed to air.....my opinion. Bottom line.... I come right back to PL. Used it for windows, and every other area in the coach that needs sealing. Haven't been disappointed yet, but then I only have 2.5 years of experience to fall baCK oN. Sika 252 is still holding and looking good on the external panel joints where metal replaced windows. That process was done two years ago. No leaks, no cracking and paintable. Once again, downside of that particular Sika product is the short (20 minute) work time. Need to have the plan pretty well formed in your mind before you attempt to do it....alone or with three guys. Also use plenty of pressure....and in spite of the comments about tile spacers ( see above thread), they work wonders and keep the panels even top to bottom. "When all else fails, follow directions" : ) HTH RCB '64 Crown HWC | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (65.74.64.127)
Rating: N/A |
How about this tip? If you have non-paintable silicone and want to paint it, you can pick up a tube of paintable silicone. They do make it and all you have to do is run a light film of it over the non-paintable version and let it cure. Then paint. We got this info from a professional house painter and have no reason to doubt him. For what it's worth. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher | ||
| jim mci-9 (209.240.205.60) Rating: N/A |
i plannd on holding the sheets up with my winch truck... or sitting them on little shelf-like brackets that i temporarily attach to the other ribs... i looked closely at the sides yesteerday... i've got a gutter to remove... the curved top top peel up... and a bottom trim strip to remove first....then i'll have to clean all surfaces before any new metal goes in....i'll look at HD today for the sealer y'all are taking about...(little southern there...) | ||
| TWO DOGS (66.90.210.123) Rating: N/A |
Jim...it doesn't say on the tube...but the stuff I've been useing is brown...the other is black...it's construction adheasive...on the same isle with calking..the ONLY bad thing I've found out about it ,ya' can't get it off your hands...I REALLY don't think the winch truch idea will work...ya' really need two or three people..I'm NOT wishing you bad luck...just ,ya' need help !! | ||
| jim mci-9 (209.240.205.60) Rating: N/A |
you ain't seen my winch truck.... i figure, being a YOUNG man....that i can handle it...the sheets are only 35"tall.. 118" long....less than 35lbs... | ||
| mark (66.43.13.98) Rating: N/A |
I was able to cover THREE windows at a time by myself! (No brag, just fact!) What I did was use rubber stretch ropes (bungee cords). I hooked the top of the gutter with one end, stretched down to the bottom of the skins with the other. I had to tie a couple of knots in the bungees to get the proper length/tension. The bungees pulled the panels up into place, tight against the gutter. I was able to maneuver the panels into place since the bungee cords made the panels seem weightless! After I got the top screws in, I removed the bungee cords and installed the rest of the screws. In a couple of months I will remove the screws and replace with rivets and seam sealer (Sika - PL - ?) Worked for me! Actually I did have SOME help from my wife! She put in the first screw at the top right in the middle. Then I went about installing the rest of the screws. mark 75 gillig 636D oregon coast | ||
| Peter Broadribb (Madbrit) (65.37.90.20)
Rating: N/A |
Isn't there some butyl or rubber sealing tape that is supplied on new windows? Where can that be obtained? My used windows are missing it and I didn't want to use that putty tape. Peter. | ||
| Dale MC8 (66.81.142.210)
Rating: N/A |
Peter, back a few years when I was a RV Tech, we used Butyl sealing tape on windows. Comes in a roll like putty tape. Check your local RV parts dept. HTH Dale | ||
| R.C.Bishop (128.123.221.144)
Rating: N/A |
Madbrit....I believe Austin Hardware also carries the Butyl tape. www.austinhardware.com. HTH RCB '64 Crown HWC | ||
| William N DeGroot (Billdegroot) (171.72.5.225)
Rating: N/A |
I skinned my MC-9 using 18 gauge steel in panels 118"X35". I slid the panel up and under the roof aluminum/fiberglass and rested it on 3 pegboard tool hooks (actually the "hook" is straight so after inserting 3 rivets at the top, the hooks are easily removed. The hook hangs from the lower row of rivet holes. I used 3/16 rivets-Shavehead where visible and monobolt under trim. I've been told that pop-rivets leak. Where the panels overlap, I also used Solidbond that i got from Byler. | ||
| jim mci-9 (209.240.205.60) Rating: N/A |
i guessed right... 35x118.... now i gotta find sheets....i am gonna use 16 ga. tho.... | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.79.46)
Rating: N/A |
But you are using Aluminum, right? 16ga steel would be brutally heavy. Gary | ||
| jim mci-9 (209.240.205.60) Rating: N/A |
nope..... the mild steel in 1/8".. weighs less than a pound a square foot.... i'm planning on using 16 gage.. .063 i think.... it weighs about half that....so a 35"x 118" piece weighs somewhere less than 18 lbs.... 6 x 18 = 108.... dont know what a window weighs, but i think i'm loosing weight...even if i go to the 1/8" thats only about 200lbs....a couple months ago, i got some realy neat samples of some aluminum sandwich siding.. reeally neat stuf... but $$$$... thought about that, but i cant find the info.... | ||
| R.C.Bishop (128.123.221.220)
Rating: N/A |
I used 16 gauge, 10 ft x 2.5 ' clean steel, primed and pre drilled for rivets along the bottom edge (to match the existing window line .....one man job, honest! But difficult to say the least). Affixed a flat top planed 2 x 4 along a line at the bottom for proper height (Clamps), set the panel on the 2 by AFTER a bead of Sika 252 was affixed. riveted at the top left corner for guidance to align, then riveted mid and right top. Used a rubber hammer and a 2 by to tap in place along the vertical ( in my case, canted) edges, then the bottom. Followed with rivets from middle out in both directions. Really important that some blocking pressure be applied at intersections where no rivets are applied. And, of course, spacers along the way to keep things smooth. I am sure that PL could be used to do the same thing, however, the blocking would then need to be in place for a minimum of 24 hours...longer possibly. After all was set, I came back to the exterior joints and smoothed over with Sika, using a small flat scraper and mineral spirits to clean the edges. But two dogs probably has the best answer, by using masking tape on each side of the joint. Two years later, no problems that I know of...however, the primed panels have not yet been painted with a final finish. The joints look good and with a pro to bondo or otherwise take care of the finish, should be OK. FWIW RCB '64 Crown | ||
| don (Bottomacher) (216.130.152.51)
Rating: N/A |
My chart shows the weight of 16 gage steel to be 2.44 lbs per square foot. I plan to use 16 gage on my 4106, and I do expect the window weight lost to help balance the additional weight of the skin. | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (64.134.135.51)
Rating: N/A |
My bird is built with 18ga all over, I think the roof is 20 or 22 ga. I used to build tanks out of 16ga (Most were 14 ga, a few out of 11). that'll be one bulletproof bus. Gary | ||
| mark (66.43.13.72) Rating: N/A |
Jim... You might want to double - check your estimate of the weight of the steel skins that you've described. I may be wrong, but I think you are way off on the weight that you stated. I can't find any info right now, but I'm sure that what youre talking about will weigh at least 75 pounds! Considerably more than 18 pounds as you stated! (for a 35 x 118 piece) FWIW mark 75 gillig oregon coast | ||
| T K Hays (68.89.206.156)
Rating: N/A |
according to my handy dandy pocket ref. 16 gauge sheet steel .0625 thick and 2.5 lbs/ sq ft. 18 gauge .05 thick and 2.0 lbs/ sq ft. Gavanized a little heavier. 2.65 and 2.15 respectively Terry Sallisaw OK KOA | ||
| jim mci-9 (209.240.205.60) Rating: N/A |
i stand corrected...lol.... anybody ever weigh an mci- 9 window??? i'm pulling 5 from each side....wonder what the difference will be???/ | ||
| Tony (64.215.196.189) Rating: N/A |
If they are as heavy as the ones In my eagle 10 and you take them out all on the same side your coach might turn over. | ||
| TWO DOGS (66.90.218.183) Rating: N/A |
YEAH....on my Eagle ...I almost 'went out' with the first one....I would guess between 100 and 125 pounds each...they have the small opening on top ,so,,,are even heavier than a 10 |