| Author | Message | ||
| RichardKan (152.163.252.163) Rating: |
I'm in a quandary regarding Bus Windshield Wipers. The ones on my old Eagle sure aren't up to the original standards. They are sluggish and leak. I was going to opt for a set of new electrics, but a fellow bus nut has stated something to the effect of "You'll be sorry!". So, before I take the plunge, I would like opinions of the folks on this board that have the electric ones. Are they worth the dollars and effort? Or is there a re-build kit out there that will make the old swishers like new again. Reliability is always a concern with safety items, and I'm told that the ones that came with the bus are the most reliable there are. So let's here it from you that have had the experience of both in the rain. | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (64.134.135.51)
Rating: N/A |
I have Air, and I can't STAND them. I talked with these guys: http://www.dieselequipment.com/wipers/wipers.asp and he launched into a discussion on why I couldn't install a wiper transmission and I needed two units. While working on the front of my bus, my friends shop is next to mine, I noticed on one of his cars, that he had a nice, long wiper on the hatchback ricer. We started to compare, and the ricer wiper motor was real close in dimensions to the shaft on the bus. I'm going to check the local U-Pull junkyard and I'm going to see how it works. Probably next month. Gary | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.38)
Rating: |
Rebuild the air jobs, if the bus company could have gotten any better, they would have. Air wipers get sluggish when you take too long to convert, leathers dry out etc. A few bucks spent on repair of the air jobs will be money much better spent than on electrics. Think about it, the finest motor coaches in the world use air, the cheapest vehicle you can buy uses electric. Duh! The only time my ole Kenworth let me down, it was from a wornout electric wiper. Keep the best, scrap the rest. | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (64.134.135.51)
Rating: N/A |
Really...Hmm....Voice of experience and all... Hmm... Gary | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (65.40.154.50) Rating: N/A |
I bought a pair of electric wipers because my air wipers are starting to leak too, but I haven't yet installed them. However, I have had to rebuild or replace plenty of air wiper motors on trucks and I've had to replace very few electric motor wipers. That said, I will have to stipulate that we have about 5 inches of rain a year here, so while an air wiper's o-rings will suffer in the desert heat an electric wiper motor is unaffected and`rarely gets used. Brian | ||
| RichardKan (152.163.252.163) Rating: N/A |
Do you remember what the cost of the new electrics were? | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.38)
Rating: N/A |
Replaced them on TRUCKS you say Brian, are the new trucks starting to use air wipers now? I did not know that. | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (64.134.135.51)
Rating: N/A |
the guy skipped over cost and went directly to "You need two". I think the cost was like $250 - 300, per unit, If memory serves. Gary | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (65.40.154.50) Rating: N/A |
Honestly, I don't know how well air wipers stand up in other enviroments, but ask any experienced mechanic in this town that is familiar with them and they agree with Gary. I told one mechanic I had air wipers and his immediate reply was, "Oh, that sucks!" that's about typical. The o rings wear out, the aluminum bore gets worn out and scored and then the wipers get sluggish, the air inlet is usually plastic and has a tendency to crack and leak, and the wiper switches end up leaking. Other than that, my biggest PEEVE with them (considering vegas is a dusty environment)is accidently bumping the switch prior to start-up, then building air while doing a walk around and hearing SCREEEEEEEEEE!!! Ahhhhhhhhhhh, RUN! While it is true that many fine and expensive coaches have air wipers, International trucks use air wipers too. And simply put, we buy Internationals because they are low bid. Though International has improved their product in the last few years, a popular nickname for them amongst mechanics used to be: Entirely-trash-inal Brian | ||
| mleibelt@maqs.net (66.187.37.74)
Rating: N/A |
I put electric wipers on my 102A3 about 2 years ago amd love em...Couldn't stand the noise from the air ones...(reminded me of milking cows...never again...)cost about 500 for the pair ans work great...only downsine is you can't move the wiper arm out of the way to wash the windshield like you can with air wipers... Mark | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (65.40.154.50) Rating: N/A |
Actually, Don Internationals have had them for a number of years, as well as some Whites, Autocars, AND a couple of Mack's we have from the 70's have them... Brian | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (64.134.135.51)
Rating: N/A |
well, these guys promptly listed out all the things I hate about them. Gary | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (65.40.154.50) Rating: N/A |
Actually, I bought a pair of NEW salvaged RV wiper motors on Ebay they had a little discoloration on the motor housing, big deal. I paid something like $65 for both. Brian | ||
| Darryl (68.184.119.198) Rating: N/A |
I've used both and prefer the electric. My biggest complaint about the air is how they stall when the rain starts to let up. The big down side is the expense (and frustration) of retrofitting. From the price, you'd think those things were gold plated. Also, trying to figure out what parts to "mix and match" to fit a particular coach (if you don't buy the pre-done kit) is not easy. Those guys that have already figured this all out and sell the kit to fit a particular coach know it's not easy too. I guess that's why they charge so much for them. You need to know the arc, the length of the pivot piece that comes through the cowl, and seemingly a multitude of other components. They can all be bought as individual pieces from a dealer, but the $100 you save is probably not worth the frustration. It's a hard decision. | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.38)
Rating: N/A |
Come on now Mark, you are supposed to LOVE that sound, it is as macho as jakes and smelling diesel fumes! To me electric wipers that sound just like a Ford Pinto or a Chevette turn me off, I like the class sound of a fine piece of machinery instead. Of course, plastic palace stick and staple jobs use electrics too, if you wanted to make a Winnie our of a bus, that would be a start I guess. | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.38)
Rating: N/A |
Come on now Mark, you are supposed to LOVE that sound, it is as macho as jakes and smelling diesel fumes! To me electric wipers that sound just like a Ford Pinto or a Chevette turn me off, I like the class sound of a fine piece of machinery instead. Of course, plastic palace stick and staple jobs use electrics too, if you wanted to make a Winnie our of a bus, that would be a start I guess. | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (65.40.154.50) Rating: N/A |
I'm hoping to save a lot more than a $100 but I'll let you know how it goes... The arc looks right on the ones I bought, so I ought to be good there. The truth is, it might be a difficult task for the mechanically dis-inclined. I'll bet even the purpose made kits aren't really a JOY to install, but the alternative is "Oh, that sucks!" Brian | ||
| FAST FRED (65.154.176.148) Rating: N/A |
Maint on air wipers is a squirt of WD 40 every decade , or a cheap rebuild kit. New air motors can be had for about $75 each , if your planning on keeping your coach running for another 40 years , and its raining. IF that noise "bothers" you , what about the endless Harleys with megaphones, about 100DB louder? The question of how you continue to see with electric wipers after a fuse blows , or the motor gets unhappy from a heavy snow or iced up loading remaimns a matter of speculation. KISS FAST FRED | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.64)
Rating: N/A |
I suspect another reason for the use of air on buses, is the large area to clean at speed. I have never seen an electric wiper work as fast as air. Luke would be a good one to get into this discussion, how many conversions to electric does he make a year to fleet buses that HAVE to have safe wipers 24/7? Comments Luke? | ||
| J.L.Vickers (209.34.15.19) Rating: N/A |
OK Folks! It's my turn now let me up on the soap box. When the PD-4107's came out in the mid 60's GMC Truck & Coach decided to Install electric wiper motors on the PD-4107's.Per the 4107 Maintenance manual X-6614 dated 1-66 Section 3 page 34. The wipers worked until the motors heated up and the Circuit Breaker on the motor opened and then the motor would quit. The old bus drivers have said they would only quit when you needed them most. And that was in a hard rain storm. Just when you need wipers in the worst way. Needless to say GMC went back to the air motors and no more problems in heavy heavy rain storms. You Know Folks it's hard to beat GMC Truck & Coach engineering. So I am keeping the air wipers on my Buffalo 4905. At least I can get parts if need be from Luke and that's a plus. But I don't think that Luke stocks the electric "yugo" ones! J.L.Vickers Conroe,Texas | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (24.196.191.70)
Rating: N/A |
snip The question of how you continue to see with electric wipers after a fuse blows , or the motor gets unhappy from a heavy snow or iced up loading remaimns a matter of speculation. I have spent many many winters in cold country with lots of snow and ice, including many times having the blades frozen to the windshield and have never seen or even heard of fuses blowing, or DC wiper motors failing due to snow or ice loading . I seriously doubt if that should be a MAJOR concern for those contemplating changing to electrics. As always, examples of real life experiences would be welcome. Richard | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.64)
Rating: N/A |
It is really not polite to speak of snow and ice when Texans are listening Richard. | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (65.40.154.50) Rating: N/A |
While Fred might be right about air wiper maintenace & longevity in the rest of the country. They just do not last for decades here. AND they really can be a PAIN to remove & repair Most of our heavy duty guys have a spare air motor & plastic air inlets in their tool box. While WD-40 might help loosen the grease in the air motor and lube the o rings, what might work better is a product from Hydrotex called Essentialube, besides keeping rubber pliable It also is a fuel stabilizer as well as a Tranny and Engine oil additive, good stuff. Still, niether WD-40 or Essentialube is going to do anything for cracks... Brian | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.64)
Rating: N/A |
I wonder Brian, are ALL air wipers created equal? I wonder if the old bus units of the 60's are actually the same as the modern units you are having problems with? The old air wipers (vacumn) on cars were ALWAYS a pain in the butt of course. Step on the gas to pass in the rain, and instantly you had no wipers until you let off the gas. My wife has an opinion on electrics too, when our electric wipers quit in the Kenworth, we were in Oklahoma, with a priority load to Minneapolis and no replacments were to be had. I tied a rope around the wiper arms thru the vent windows and guess who spent the stormy night pulling the rope back and forth. Last time I knew, the scale house south of twin cities was STILL looking in the book for something to write us up for, we won and continued the trip. Yeah, try to sell HER a set of electric wipers! PS: The rope will wear thru and need replaced about every 250 miles in heavy rain! | ||
| Doug Dickinson (Dougd470) (65.161.188.11)
Rating: N/A |
I was faced with this issue shortly after my 83 MCI came home. I had an air leak in the wipers and was thinking of changing to electrics. After asking the question, I decided to stay with the air system befcause: 1) Air is cheaper to buy parts for. 2) I can get parts anywhere, but it depends on who makes the electrics as to IF I can easily get parts. 3) It's OEM standard for my coach (and I like that). Works for me! Doug St Louis MC9 | ||
| TWO DOGS (66.90.216.253) Rating: N/A |
I vote for air.... | ||
| RichardKan (205.188.209.8) Rating: N/A |
Looks like this is topic that deserves attention all right. So just where do we go to get replacement air windshield wiper stuff for the Eagle. Last time I was in Brownsville, all I saw was an empty factory. | ||
| Terrance A.Haag (Mrbus) (152.163.252.163)
Rating: N/A |
RichardKan, Go to the same place the rest of the industry goes, to a heavy truck parts store. Eagle wipers are not unique. The ones on my O-5 are "Airpush", and I found parts easy to get. There is a lot to dislike about air powered wipers, but like any other system, if properly maintained, they will serve you well. And at a much lower cost. | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.68)
Rating: N/A |
Glad you are seeing the light! Well, as I recall when we were sitting there looking at that empty factory, my suggestion was that maybe you should NOT have bought an Eagle. (Sorry Dick, I am onery and that was just too good a shot to miss out on) Never mind however, I love orphan vehicles and Eagle never built much, just took GM stuff and bolted it together. You DO know who made that DD, and that Allison, shucks probably even the windshield wipers! I would try Muncie or Mohawk, maybe even that place in OKC (is it Washington?), bet they got all the stuff you would ever need, if not Luke can come to the rescue I bet, how about it Luke? | ||
| RichardKan (152.163.252.163) Rating: N/A |
I appreciate all the input here and feel it really helped with my thinking. I didn't intend to make it a forum as to which brand is better. But now that you mention it, just where is the GMC Bus manufacturing facility? | ||
| jim mci-9 (209.240.205.60) Rating: N/A |
so whats wrong with hydraulic???? run a small hyd motor off the power steering curcuit..... HR did it on a p30 chev chassis.... | ||
| mel 4104 (208.181.100.46)
Rating: N/A |
as to the air wipers being hard to change , well i have a 4104 and if you can find any coach that has easerier acess to the wiper motors i would like to see it6 bolts haold on the front pannel and out pops the motor and 4 bolts haold them to the front pannel, how ever the motors in the 4104 are real small so i took the ones from a 5303 and nodified the mounting bracket and now i have wipers that have great speed control more power than you will ever need in a sleet blizard. oh yes i went to the expense of getting2 set of panagraph eletric ones and they are snitting on the shop floor some place as all the other bus guys around here have changed to the larger air wipers | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (65.40.154.50) Rating: N/A |
Strangely enough, the air wipers I have seen have not changed much in years. I've only seen only two distictly different designs on all sorts of vehicles over the last twenty years, the rack and pinion type, and the paddle in a pie wedge type. Your 4104 is certainly exceptional, as some of the worst installations are knuckle busting, finger slicing nightmares. The electric wiper motors I purchased are each meant to drive both sets of wipers. I will be driving each wiper with it's own motor, halfing their work load and increasing their load potential. To each his own, I say, but I can't help hearing "Oh, that sucks!" ringing in my ears. Brian | ||
| TWO DOGS (66.90.217.27) Rating: N/A |
Richard kan.....Jefferson bus in Ok. city...has kits or new wiper motors...DID you get the $$ I sent you ?? | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.22)
Rating: N/A |
NO! Did you send them mail or paypal? | ||
| Luke Bonagura (Lukeatuscoach) (12.75.169.30)
Rating: N/A |
Hi Don & Folks: Well, Don, you drew me into the mess!!!! Having spent my entire 41 year working career in the bus industry, buying & selling, them, operating them and now repairing and supplying parts for buses, I would offer the following: First of all, I would never tell some else how to spend their money!!!! Second and more important, air wiper motors were probably close to the bottom of our total repair & cost items, when I operated buses. Part of the problem with converted coaches is that the wipers as well as all other bus systems are not operated enough, because the bus sits more than it runs!!! I have "full timer" customers who have never come in for air wiper work other than Blades!!!! What does that tell us????? I am 60 years old and if I sit in front of the T.V. for 2 hours, watching a movie, and then decide to get up to get a glass of iced-tea or whatever, I am stiff & sound like a "Bowl of Rice Crispies" as I walk to the kitchen!!!! Same thing with your bus!!! The systems have to be used to keep them functional!!!! We repair converted buses in our shop all day long and provide bus parts to customers every day, where the parts have deteriorated from not being used!!! With regard to wipers, Eagle, GMC, MCI or other manufacturers did not develop their own wiper systems!!!! Most had Sprague systems installed, other than the 4104's which had TRICO systems, and I am still trying to create a parts source for the original "Brass" Trico motors which were Great Motors when NEW. We have a shelf full of parts for the Sprague motors. Easily installed kits, new valves, etc.!!! With regard to any wiper motor, even Sprague had a hundred varities depending upon the application. For example there is the "Degree of Sweep". It is indicated on every one of their motors. What that means is the motor is built to go so many inches to the left and right!!! If your bus W/S is 40" wide and the wiper motor is built to clean a 30" wide windshield, then you will have 10" of windshield that is not cleaned by the wiper!!!! And Don, as far as the "SAFETY" seminar in Arcadia, it could last for the entire 4 days and not begin to cover every area of a bus. Unfortunately, all too many converted coach owners have "Limited" mechanical knowledge and that is why these Boards are so inmportant to provide accurate information for those folks!!!! If posters would just READ the original post, and give "ANSWERS TO THE QUESTION", rather than telling folks what to do with their money, the original poster would be so much further ahead, and build His/Her knowledge bank!!!! I am off my "Soap Box", I will leave that to John Vickers who is now "retired" and has to get his 4905 "Up & Ready" for his trip to Arcadia!!! John & I have become "Friends" over the internet and we talk as least once a week and I am looking forward to meeting him. He is a "Bus-Nuts HELPING FRIEND!!!!" Happy and SAFE Bussin" to ALL!!! LUKE at US COACH | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.29)
Rating: N/A |
Well folks, I rest my case! Thanks Luke, I knew what you would say I think. Are you fantisizing or does something make you think JL Vickers will actually drive his creation out of Texas? I knew he retired, but I thought the retirement was from bus converting! He makes me feel good though, the only bus conversion I know of that took longer than mine! | ||
| J.L.Vickers (209.34.15.19) Rating: N/A |
Oh My! Don't be to hard on us slow converters we are just trying to get it right. As for getting out of Texas with the old GMC one never knows the old bus might not want to leave East Texas. Luke I will keep you posted on the GMC's progress. J.L.Vickers | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (65.40.154.50) Rating: N/A |
(standing on soap box) Don, buddy you can rest your case, but you haven't convinced me (and I'll wager, several others) that air wipers are a good match for converted coaches and neither has Luke, in fact, just the opposite... "Part of the problem with converted coaches is that the wipers as well as all other bus systems are not operated enough, because the bus sits more than it runs!!!" PART of the problem with air wipers here in the desert, is they are used infrequently, leading to premature failure because they sit more than they run! Sound familiar? If I have information that I feel is pertinent, I won't hesitate to convey that information here. I would like to think that my experiences as a diesel mechanic with nearly a quarter century of on the job training gives me a sizable database to draw from. And as a guy whose father was a Navy Chief Petty Officer and an Aviation Mechanic with 20 years in, I'd like to think I was born and raised as a mechanic. As I said, I've only seen only two distictly different designs on all sorts of vehicles over the last twenty years, the rack and pinion type, and the paddle in a pie wedge type. Sure, there are going to be different degrees of sweep for different applications, I was talking about the DESIGN of the wiper motor. I mentioned THIS about 30 post ago... "Honestly, I don't know how well air wipers stand up in other enviroments" If I understand correctly, Luke feels that if you are a fulltimer who drives his coach and uses his wipers regularly, you should never have troubles with air wipers. Fair enough... If you are a fulltimer in a wet environment... I'm curious as to just how many there are of those. And lastly: I re-read the entire thread TWICE and only one person was telling RichardKan how to spend his money. (Don, stop doing that) (grin) (getting down from soap box) Brian | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.42)
Rating: N/A |
Well Brian, don't feel defeated or ganged up on, in reality RichardKan is a very good friend and neighbor of mine, has been for many years. My holier than thou attitude was just theatrics. We had discussed this before he posted it and put it out to gather opinions and experiences, yours was one of those, and it was taken with respect, for the valid reasons you pointed out. I got along very well with air in my bus, some friends of mine had spent lots of bucks converting to electric and had some problems, and I was just trying to get both sides of the situation to him. My personal take is only that air wipers work very doggone well, and when someone dismisses them all as useless junk that never worked, I bristle. The fact they they according to you are still in production and being sold on trucks must stand for something. | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (65.40.154.50) Rating: N/A |
Don, how could I feel defeated? You have your opinion about air wipers, I have mine, and neither one has changed as a result of this thread. Several people think along the same lines I do, several appear to find your position on the matter attractive. Air wipers work great, until they don't, then air leaks and sluggish wipers are the norm. And, as I pointed out, Luke makes my argument for me, when it comes to the suitability of air wipers for most bus conversions. Ganged up on? No, no, misinterpreted maybe, certainly not ganged up on.... No, that happened when I brought up my buddy Bernie...(grin) Brian | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (65.40.154.50) Rating: N/A |
Oh, and as to air wipers being still in production, never forget the bottom line, Don... As in, how much will an air wiper cost the OEM versus electric wipers on the assembly line? OEM's have been known to work really hard to shave dollars off the cost of assembling a vehicle. Out of spec crankshafts come to mind. If a just adequate solution saves even only few dollars over another stellar idea, you can rest assured which option will be installed. Brian | ||
| Peter Broadribb (Madbrit) (65.37.91.159)
Rating: N/A |
My 1994 Freightliner has air wipers, can't see a problem with them so far. May well take Luke's advice and squirt some WD-40 in there every so often. Peter. | ||
| FAST FRED (63.234.23.207) Rating: N/A |
As time goes by things get better , case here is now you can install an operating valve for the air wipers that has an intermittant feature. So the "hassle' of very light rain ruining the blades can be overcome at a truck junk yard. No I haven't stuck them in the Sportscar as my operating valve will allow a very very slow speed , which also solves the problem. FAST FRED | ||
| Sam Sperbeck (206.230.105.230) Rating: N/A |
Hi Guys, I use a little air tool oil in my wiper motors. I don't think WD-40 has enough long lasting lubrication to be very effective, at least in other applications. The air tool oil doesn't evaporate as fast as WD-40, but is eventually caried out with the exaust air. I thought of the possibility of installing an in line oiler, but, as has been pointed out, we just don't use our wipers much. Thanks, Sam Sperbeck La Crescent,MN | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.23)
Rating: N/A |
Brian I can completely agree with your last post. I bet if Geo's (or whatever is cheap these days) had an air system, they would probably have air wipers if they were cheaper. I would assume that elec wipers are less expensive though due to volume of production, wouldn't you? Do any of the trucks you are aware of have an option for air or elec? | ||
| Johnny (63.159.178.66) Rating: N/A |
The Fishbowl at work has air wipers--I loathe them. No intermittent setting, slow as molasses, extremely loud, & don't park automatically (they stop abruptly when shut off). My bus has electric wipers, & I'm perfectly content with them (though intermittant settings would be nice). In the 18" of snow we got last weekend, we had several electric wipers stuck on snowbound vehicles. While the snow-removal efforts destroyed at least 15 blades & one arm, no wiper motors were damaged. | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.26)
Rating: N/A |
I think they all have resetting circuit breakers to protect against just that, don't they? | ||
| Johnny (63.159.178.66) Rating: N/A |
I think so--though some seem to also have fuses. | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (65.40.154.50) Rating: N/A |
Don, as I mentioned before, air wiper design hasn't changed much in over 20 years, while electric wipers are a wide variety of configurations. Plus the motive power for air wipers is free and isn't generated at the wiper. Others in this thread have pointed out the expense of electric wipers, and one or two also have mentioned the low cost of both rebuild kits and new air wiper motors. Brian | ||
| Phil Dumpster (12.230.214.167) Rating: N/A |
Check your self parking air wipers. On my Flyer, turning the knob to the right increases the speed of the wipers. Turning it to the left stops them. Turning them further to the left (it's a spring loaded thing) and holding the knob in that position parks the wiper. Then you release the knob. | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.36)
Rating: N/A |
Damn, NOW you tell me. Why didn't you say that years ago! I always thought it was just one of those skill things to work the button just right. | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (24.196.191.70)
Rating: N/A |
Phil, what a great piece of information. It took me at least five years to get the nack of turning them off in the right place to get them to stop at the park position. LOL And now I don't need them. Richard | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (69.34.171.174) Rating: N/A |
You guys aren't kidding about not knowing about the air wiper parking feature are you? Wow, just goes to show sometimes the most inconsequential seeming information can be beneficial. Brian | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (24.196.191.70)
Rating: N/A |
And I thought I knew everything about my Eagle. LOL Richard | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.22)
Rating: N/A |
Seriously. I never even thought about it, just parked them manually. Don't think the GMC operators manual said anything about that either. | ||
| Jim-Bob (12.46.52.74) Rating: N/A |
Now this is why I read these things every day!! I took the darn wipers & switches apart to reseal them & STILL didn't figure out that park thing. I just did it like Don. Man I can't WAIT for it to rain! | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (24.196.191.70)
Rating: N/A |
Sure wish I could try that also. I find it hard to believe that this information has not been posted on any board, to my knowledge, in the past several years. Anybody else try it yet? Richard | ||
| C Fred (67.72.98.110)
Rating: N/A |
Most coach owners that I no hate air wipers. I have a company that makes electric wipers for me that fit MCIs. I have installed a lot off them over the years. And I wouldn't have anything else. How many have ever replaced electric on there cars or trucks? Me never. I install them for what others charge for them. Fred North Florida Bus Conversion | ||
| Ian Giffin (Admin) (64.228.43.38)
Rating: N/A |
Fred, You & Luke ever check out how little it costs to advertise here? Probably less than a set of electric wipers. Ian www.busnut.com | ||
| R.C.Bishop (128.123.221.141)
Rating: N/A |
Hee hee........good one, Ian. Luke, FH, LISTEN UP!! Great sales pitch!...from a great marketer... And, who knows...maybe worth every cent.  RCB '64 Crown HWC | ||
| Ace (24.28.41.194) Rating: N/A |
I just did! Let's see if it works! LOL Ace | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.31)
Rating: N/A |
Good one Ian, I loved it. | ||
| njt5150 (68.240.138.9) Rating: N/A |
Okay I understand that air may be better then electric now. Where do you get the air rebuilt? I have a leak when the bus is building air pressure coming from the wipers. After the bus gets to around 75#s the leak stops. Does this need rebuilding? If not why does it leak? Any way of repairing if needed other then rebuilding? Who can rebuild them and expected cost of rebuilding? | ||
| FAST FRED (63.234.23.70) Rating: N/A |
Rebuild kits are usually very inexpensive and quite easy to do. Try your usual bus source or call US Coach , 1-888-COACH 34 and they will be on the brown truck , same day! Surplus folks have brand new units for about $75 , but you may have to remount , there are lots of styles. Try the great sugestion of a shot of air compressor oil first, may work for you . Do it on a rainy day with shop air , so you can let them run a couple of hours . FAST FRED | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (65.160.208.21) Rating: N/A |
"Okay I understand that air may be better then electric now." NJT, while the tally of the air vs electric factions gives a slight edge to air wipers, the key question is: How many have replaced their wipers with electric and now that they have them, how do they like them? The answers were: "I have installed a lot (of electric wipers) over the years and wouldn't be without them" AND "I love them". Luke, who has over 40 years in the bus industry, points out that the problem with (air) wipers in bus conversions is the lack of usage. There is no such problem with electric wipers. As Fred mentioned, rebuild kits are quite inexpensive, and new wiper motors are relatively inexpensive as well, though there really aren't that many styles. As I stated before, in over twenty four years as a diesel mechanic I've only seen two distinct types, and though I have seen a variation on the rack and pinion type, virtualy every single one mounts in the same way. A NEW wiper motor should already be adequately lubed with grease, added oil of any type, at that point, will reduce the life of the motor by washing away that grease. Likewise, a rebuild kit will come with grease and a REBUILT wiper motor will also be harmed by additional oil. In fact, compressor oil may not be the optimum product to put in your older leaking and sluggish air wipers either. When the grease in your wipers gets old and caked, a product such as Marvel Mystery Oil or Hydrotex's Essensialube would be a better choice to soften caked grease and rejuevinate the o-rings inside the motor, a sluggish wiper might gain some by that. While Fred is correct that rebuliding an air wiper itself, is a relatively straight-forward process, he is ignoring the fact that air wiper motors can be a ROYAL PAIN IN THE A** to remove from your coach. Some are fortunate and have their air wipers exposed and within easy reach, others have their air wipers buried deep under a dash board and panels that need to be removed through a rat's nest of air lines and fittings. One last thing... while most proponents of air wipers see nothing wrong with them, or feel OEM is the way to go, on the other hand, people who are against air wipers tend to HATE and LOATHE them with a passion! "Oh, that sucks!" comes to mind again. Brian | ||
| njt5150 (68.240.141.29) Rating: N/A |
There is a small rectangular hole in the wiper motor that the air is coming out of. Is there something missing? This is on a mc9 1987 and it does appear to be a boger to remove. I can when the system is building air move the knob (on-off) slightly and the air will stop leaking. Is this a sign it needs rebuilt/replaced? Only does this on the drivers side, the other unit makes no noise. Wiper after the air builds up does not appear to leak and works normally with two speeds as long as there is water on the windshield. Sorry for all the questions I am more aware of items that WORK or DONT WORK, not that leak air. Thanks. | ||
| jim mci-9 (209.240.205.60) Rating: N/A |
if you "rejuvinate" the o-rings in any system with any oil, you have destroyed them.... o-rings are not porus.... they will not absorb oil...if they do, they are bad......you might lubricate the seal surfaces with oil, but o-rings do not absorb oil... | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.20)
Rating: N/A |
Well Jim you might just have something there. I was thinking, my bus sat for about 5 years before I bought it, then it took a half dozen years of sitting while I slowly did my thing called conversion. After 11 years of the wipers never even having been tirned on or off, they worked perfectly when I got back on the road. Maybe it is oiling them instead of sitting that ruins them. | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (65.160.208.21) Rating: N/A |
Actually Jim, both Marvel Mystery Oil and Hydrotex Essensialube will soften hardened rubber, this I know for a fact. Perhaps it sounds far-fetched but I am telling you from years of experience. One thing you may not be aware of is that once rubber comes out of the mold it will continue to cure throughout it's "life". Essential oils migrate to the surface and are dissapated until oils in the ajacent area are expended then the rubber will harden and eventually crack. Both Essentialube and Marvel Mystery Oil are absorbed by the rubber and replace the oils that were lost over time. Brian | ||
| jim mci-9 (209.240.205.60) Rating: N/A |
hate to bust your bubble, but all o-rings are not created equal... i work for a caterpillar dealer and know of at least 4 differnt types of o-rings.... and they are not made of "rubber"... differnt compounds for different applications.... some for air conducting(yellow)... water(black)..oil(brown).. and hydraulic(green or red)... each differnt color repesents a differnt compound for the composition of the o-rings.....its 5 am on a vaction day or i'd look up the names of each....i do know that if you use 1 yellow(air) o-ring in a brown(oil) appplication, the o-ring will swell, deteriorate, and be ruined....if your o-rings are absorbing whatever liquid they're trying to seal, you're using the wrong type..... | ||
| njt5150 (68.240.234.181) Rating: N/A |
There is a small rectangular hole in the wiper motor that the air is coming out of. Is there something missing? This is on a mc9 1987 and it does appear to be a booger to remove. I can when the system is building air move the knob (on-off) slightly and the air will stop leaking. Is this a sign it needs rebuilt/replaced? Only does this on the drivers side, the other unit makes no noise. Wiper after the air builds up does not appear to leak and works normally with two speeds as long as there is water on the windshield. Sorry for all the questions I am more aware of items that WORK or DONT WORK, not that leak air. Thanks. | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.24)
Rating: N/A |
Rubber will swell (and soften) when treated with a petroleum product such as Marvel Mystery Oil (which is believed to be crude oil, kerosene, naptha and wintergreen oil to make it smell good). Problem is it destroys rubber during this process too! If your master cylinder is leaking, just pour it full of kerosene, and you got great brakes and no leaks - for a little while, really swells up them dried out rubbers. Pour snake oil on stuff if you prefer, I will start doing it too WHEN the manufacturer of the item says it is ok, or when the snake oil makers start confessing as to what their product contains. | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (198.81.26.38)
Rating: N/A |
Jim, buddy, I hate to smack you up-side the head with a bubble, but while I am aware that o-rings are made of differing compounds, including ones for air conditioning systems (blue green AND black), you seem to have the mistaken impression that I do not know what I am talking about; Namely, that NEOPRENE rubber (used in far more than just o-rings) can be made pliable again once it has hardened. By the way, neoprene is the type of rubber used in the o-rings of the air wipers in question. Since you contradict yourself stating that... o-rings will not absorb oil... when they do, they swell and are ruined...,I suggest you consult someone who knows more about the subject. Brian | ||
| Bob (Bobb) (69.19.1.163)
Rating: N/A |
OK... but can anyone answer this question? "There is a small rectangular hole in the wiper motor that the air is coming out of. Is there something missing? This is on a mc9 1987 and it does appear to be a booger to remove. I can when the system is building air move the knob (on-off) slightly and the air will stop leaking. Is this a sign it needs rebuilt/replaced? Only does this on the drivers side, the other unit makes no noise. Wiper after the air builds up does not appear to leak and works normally with two speeds as long as there is water on the windshield. Sorry for all the questions I am more aware of items that WORK or DONT WORK, not that leak air. Thanks." | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong) (66.229.97.200)
Rating: N/A |
Bob - Sounds to me like the on/off switch is leaking, not the wiper motor. Lots easier to replace the switch than to R/R the motor. Try Mohawk, Muncie, Luke, MCI, or your local HD truck parts store for a replacement. HTH, RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (198.81.26.38)
Rating: N/A |
Both Marvel Mystery Oil and Essentialube will soften hardened rubber seals and o-rings. I have NEVER seen evidence in my 24 YEARS+ of being a diesel mechanic that they will cause a seal to SWELL to the point it is ruined, NEVER. I have had experience for years with both products, if you think I am lying about that, or talking out my A**, fine... whatever. Brian | ||
| njt5150 (68.240.252.232) Rating: N/A |
Thanks RJ... I will check that first. I saw one on fleabay new for like 6.00 | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.15)
Rating: N/A |
Whiskey! Amazing what is on the internet! Neoprene O ring compatability with various chemicals are all spelled out here: http://www.efunda.com/designstandards/oring/oring_chemical.cfm?SC=none&SM=Neoprene According to the chart, the best thing to use in air wipers would be WHISKEY! Check it out for yourself. | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong) (66.229.97.200)
Rating: N/A |
Don - You have got entirely TOO MUCH time on your hands!! ROFLMAO RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno Ca PS: Hmmmmm. . . do you think Guinness would work? | ||
| njt5150 (68.240.251.242) Rating: N/A |
So if stopped will that be DWW? Drunk windshield wipers | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.17)
Rating: N/A |
You found my problem RJ, don't spread it around. I understand the charge is DWI, Driving, Wipers Intoxicated. | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (198.81.26.38)
Rating: N/A |
Funny... of course if follow that logic, then the chart also suggests that natural gas is also great to use in air wipers. Brian | ||
| duh (209.240.205.63) Rating: N/A |
you know brian its a good thing that thers only 1 oring on your detroit... other than the head gasket set... so go oil it with marvel mystery oil....can you guess where its at???/ | ||
| njt5150 (68.240.178.237) Rating: N/A |
Jim I dont know how to even get to the dang wiper and I hope someone can answer your question and tell us where to oil the thing.. | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (65.160.208.21) Rating: N/A |
Duh, could it be stuck inside your head? Brian |
