| Author |
Message |
John Rigby (24.174.235.149)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 4:29 pm: | |
Sorry but back to the 671/04 fan hub again.
I met today with a plastics engineer he suggested, as the rubber had only let go where the rubber i.d. fasterns to the o.d. of the crank shaft hub/piece then get liquid nails cover the outside of the metal hub/piece, and the inside of the rubber slide it back in place. let it cure for 3 or 4 days any it will hold.
Any input would be appreciated.
In other words slide it back together with liquid nails??
John |
Bob Baldwin (Bob4106) (66.56.100.54)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 5:17 pm: | |
Hmmmm don't sound to cool to me may be some kind of Industrial Type Lock Tight Product. I might give some thought into. That stuff has seem to prove it's self |
Jim Wilke (64.12.96.105)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 5:57 pm: | |
Don't do it John!
My brother in law fixed the vibration dampener on his GM diesel powered truck like that about 6 months ago. Two weeks ago the engine broke the crankshaft!
The rubber that joins inner & outer hubs is vulcanized in place usually. Sometimes replacements are pressed in place w/ special tooling. Don't do a backyard fix. At the very best, it may be out of true or balance. Worst case you have already seen. The hub is not worth a radiator core!
Jim-Bob |
John Rigby (24.174.235.149)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 8:33 pm: | |
Bob and Jim,
If I were to put liquid nails on, and slide it back together, let it dry for 3 or 4 days and then.Place it in a vice and try to twist it of ( same as it did when it failed ) if it holds, get it balance at a drive shaft shop??
I would not be replacing the old butyle rubber that seperates and stops the vibration going from the fan to the crank shaft. But only liquid nailing the clean break the rubber made with the inside shaft.
John |
Bob Baldwin (Bob4106) (66.56.100.54)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 10:31 pm: | |
The only thing is that it's ben balance with the crank Just BE CAREFUL IF YOU GO THIS WAY |
mel 4104 (208.181.100.21)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 10:32 pm: | |
John as advised do not try to fix the damper just bite the bullet and get a new one as the DD dealer in our area allways repraces the damper when rebuilding an engine or when the is Any indication that the rubber is starting to break down.a friend came here one day and had 22 miles to drive home, the damper on his 6-71 in a 4104 was starting to make a noise and i told him i would give him a ride home but he just laughted at me and said that it would get him home, well he got the bus home the next dat with a wrecker and the the bills started to roll in. by the time the smoke settled he ended up spending over $5,000 on repairs. the damper on the DD will break a crank shaft real quick and some times they end up destroying the block by riping the bearing caps right out of the block. i have one like that in the shop right now and if you want the busted block you can have it, in fact if you are just wanting a broke crank shaft and block i have both of them you can have free. but good luck which ever way you go. |
TomNPat (68.137.169.30)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 10:39 pm: | |
John,
I remember when the harmonic balancer (which shouldn't have been there) came apart on a sprint car engine at the fairgrounds. I was named in $4 million in lawsuits just from that event and the harm it did to 4 people. Thank God it didn't kill them! We didn't know it was there, had a crash fence (that it penetrated) to protect the fans, and it went to the 15th row of the grandstand which was set back 60 feet, but that was not discussed.
We hadn't posted several messages about how we were going to Mickey Mouse it up (which it wasn't) and take our chances. We also didn't fix things with liquid nails that turned high rpms. I'm sure that it would have gone to trial instead of settling had their lawyers found that admission of guilt prior to the incident.
Buses are like animals. If you can't afford to 'feed' them, you can't afford to own them. And we wonder why insurance is both high cost and hard to get!
Please post when and where you will be going on this board before each trip so the rest of us can hide.
TomNPat |
Lyle Jensen (48gmc) (216.16.4.200)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 10:52 pm: | |
You can find a used damper at any heavy construction equipment dealer. They have used DD in all kinds of equipment and they have a large supply of good used DD parts |
Jayjay (205.188.209.8)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 10:54 pm: | |
Hey John, I can't even get Liquid Nails to hold up paneling properly, let alone a reciprocating mass of about 60 lbs. It's not even a good adhesive. I'm not sure what your solution my ultimately be, but most assuredly it shouldn't be this. ...JJ |
Alan Kline (4.72.87.42)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 10:58 pm: | |
John Why didn't you return a message about having hub repaired in Jax. Diesel Parts I'm going to call them Mon A M I was given this info by Roberts Diesel in Jax whats the deal I will find out more info on this matter from Roberts shop
Paco Xpress |
TWO DOGS (66.90.211.235)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 15, 2003 - 10:11 am: | |
buy a NEW one....don't shadetree THAT part... |
John Rigby (65.112.227.94)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 15, 2003 - 10:29 am: | |
New ones are not avalible anymore. This is not the Harmonic balancer, its the hub that the fan bolts to. That has a rubber compound poured between the two metal parts to stop vibration transfering to the crankshaft.
John |
Peter Broadribb (Madbrit) (65.37.89.249)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 15, 2003 - 11:39 am: | |
But it does the same job as an harmonic balancer.
It is a dangerous item and as such will be like trying to contain a handgranade with bailing wire.
By all means have a solid version machined out of metal, but do not try to remanufacture one at home, it is asking for trouble. There must be companies that reman torsional dampers that could put your pieces back together. Bet this is not the only rare part that has been the subject of a repop.
Peter. |
mel 4104 (208.181.100.71)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 15, 2003 - 12:44 pm: | |
by the way John the next time you are talking with your engeneer friend ask him where he got his engeneer degree at? was it of a corn flake box? no one that has ever watched that harmonic turn over at 2100 RPMwants to be standing any where close when your glue lets go. just as a test put some of you liquid nail on the side of a drill bit and let it dry , then put it in your drill and spin it at max rpm and watch out . |
bob--m (68.35.160.19)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 15, 2003 - 4:19 pm: | |
How are 671's balanced in the factory. is the fan hub part of the spinning mass that gets balanced?? |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (24.196.191.70)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 15, 2003 - 7:29 pm: | |
Jefferson Coach in Oklahoma City may be able to make one. They are re-manufacturing the torsalastic suspension units for the Eagle bus, and this would be the same process I believe.
Richard |
John Rigby (24.174.235.149)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 15, 2003 - 7:30 pm: | |
I may have located a new fan hub. I am keeping my fingers crossed.
Thanks for everyones input, its the only time in 17 years I have ever felt like it was impossible to get a peplacement part for the old 4104.
No the 671 went to GM, then the fan hub was added,
with the fan ( a GM part thats why they are nearly impossible to find new ) I have another used one I am using off my parts bus but who knows how long it will last.
Anyone with the 671/04 needs to freqently keep a check on the fan to make sure it is still tight and not starting to move.
John |
Casper (52.128.30.10)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 22, 2003 - 8:52 am: | |
John,
I work in the chemical industry, here's all you need to know about Chem E's.
"A chemical engineer is one who talks about Engineering when among Chemists, and talks about Chemistry when among Engineers". "When among both - the Chemical Engineer likes to talk about golf".
It's not always true, but it's true often enough to be funny.
Boat propellers have a rubber core similar to your fan hub. Often when the idiot driving the boat (Me - for example) runs into an underwater obstruction this core is damaged. Many boat repair shops can re-core a propeller with new vulvcanized-in rubber, and the ones that don't do it in the shop have somewhere to send them out to.
Your first choice should be a new hub of course, but this is another option to consider if you strike out finding one. Key issues to consider would be making sure that the inner hub/outer hub are properly indexed to one another as original, and have the thing recored with the right grade of rubber. The Durometer hardness of rubber compounds varies from squishy as a rubber band to hard as a mud flap, so make sure you get something similar to what was originally there.
My $.02
Casper |
Marc Bourget (209.142.38.81)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 24, 2003 - 7:28 pm: | |
Dear MadBrit
Did I understand you correctly to recommend that he machine a solid HD? The whole purpose of the vulcanized rubber is to allow the outer ring the ability to move relative to the inner hub as a means of absorbing combustion "pulses" that, if at the correct frequency, cause the Crank to fail and bearings to get pounded out.
Onward and Upward
Marc Bourget |
madbrit (67.136.219.191)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 25, 2003 - 2:27 am: | |
Better he make a solid one that try to repair a rubber unit. He will soon feel if it vibrates too much. Anyway it would make the vehicle movable until the correct unit became available.
You know they do use replacement solid balancers in some automotive applications.
Peter. |
two dogs (63.185.72.100)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 25, 2003 - 5:55 am: | |
"IF" anybody would try the new 3300 cfm elec units |