| Author |
Message |
mark (66.43.13.80)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 7:10 pm: | |
Hi!
I am about to make a purchase of a small portable generator. The one that I found that I like the most is a "Honda EU3000is" inverter generator.
I like that it is VERY quiet, which others, as will as myself, will appreciate! Not to mention any names here, FF!!
What IS an inverter generator? And how is it different than other generators? Pros? Cons?
Thanks for the help!
Mark
75gillig 636D |
mark (66.43.13.80)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 7:42 pm: | |
By the way, I thought I might add, my electrical requirements are not nearly as extensive as most of you here @ busnut.com !
Much of our bussing / camping will be boon-docking. The bus I'm bulding will be primarily LP and 12 volt systems.
The generator will be semi-permanently installed on the bus. I don't even plan on using a transfer switch. I plan on simply plugging in to the power post, or, into the generator when I need an electric hook-up.
I know that it must seem crazy to some of you, but can it work? I dont mind the extra time/trouble to "plug in" to my generator when the need for power arrises.
Please tell me like it is!!
Thanks for all your input!
mark
75 gillig636D |
Jayjay (64.12.96.105)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 8:02 pm: | |
Mark, I, and many others use a plug/receptacle for genset/shore power switching. (mine's a water-cooled, 9KW diesel, with ...yup, plugs at the service panels.) Cheers...JJ |
wjeeppc@netzero.net (64.136.27.228)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 8:06 pm: | |
I know a lot of people will say you gota have it all hooked up to the elc pannel with all kinds of safty gizmoes KNOW WAY I run a 6.5 kw that leads to a box up to the power pannel and when I un plug from the land line I plug into the Gen.How safe is it well when one is pluged in the other cant.My full time rig is set up to the keep it simple rule everything is manual.tanks valves gen visual wast water tanks.If you are unable to handel this physical stuff I dont think you belong on the road>AS for your gen if you have it set up for boon docking that is more power than you will ever need take a couple of lamps with you. |
Doug Dickinson (Dougd470) (24.207.240.13)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 8:48 pm: | |
Sounds like a winning combination for your application. I don't know all that much about the Honda EU3000is, but I have heard a lot of good things. Quiet and stable power are two of the things I hear.
I too am using the same plug method of switching power. The cost of even a manual transfer switch is a good bit of money that I could spend elsewhere. An automatic switch is out of the question. I am also looking toward more manual than automatic stuff. The automatic stuff tends to fail more often in my experience, and I am in this for the travel and fun, not fixing the coach all the time (although I DO like to tinker).
Doug
St Louis MC9 |
ChuckMC9 (Chucks) (66.167.142.42)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 10:55 pm: | |
Mark, I have a similar plan, with a slight variation. I plan on the 2000w version of the Honda as a 'starter generator', then get another if/when it's obvious that it will be needed. With this model, one can connect them together for 4000w total.
Then, someday when I'm completely comfortable with knowing exactly what I need I'll get a *real* busnuts approved generator and be like the big boys. ;) And then sell the Hondas on ebay!
-Chuck |
jmaxwell (66.81.43.113)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 12:19 am: | |
Inverter models use an internal inverter for power output regulation. Just about all the manufacturers have gone to this on their smaller units. Honda I think was 1st. 2400 rpm at any load under 10% of full load; very smooth and quiet. Now put it under 1/2 or full load, and listen to it scream across the state at 3600 rpm, anything but quiet when under load. Yamaha makes their's to run a constant 2800 rpm and I think Mitsubishi is 3200. The guy parked next to u is not going to appreciate it if u put it under load, believe me. See for yourself, ask for a demo at 1/2-3/4 load. |
Sean Welsh (Sean) (64.81.73.194)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 12:31 am: | |
To answer your original question, the Honda EU series of generators differ from "conventional" generators in that the generator itself has a DC output, which means the engine speed does not need to be as tightly regulated as AC units (which must run at a precise RPM to put out the required 60hz). The DC voltage then feeds an electronically controlled inverter which turns it into 120VAC@60Hz. This allows the generator to respond more gracefully to load changes, and to put out a high-quality, frequency-controlled sine wave suitable for modern electronics (many portable generators in this size range are suitable only for running power tools and other non-sensitive loads).
You also asked for Pro and Con, but I'm afraid you have not provided enough detailed information about your application. In general, this type of light-duty portable generator is a bad choice for a bus conversion, especially if you intend to charge your batteries with it. That being said, plenty of people use them with no complaint.
Lastly, regarding noise -- I'd shoot you if you set one of those up next to my rig and ran it. (Well, OK, I'd probably just ask you to turn it off, followed by more drastic measures like doing so myself.) Yes, this is very quiet for portable, contractor-style generators. However, it's not nearly as quiet as the best permanent installations, and would not meet NPS standards.
-Sean |
mark (66.43.13.45)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 1:22 am: | |
Sean...
So what is quiet? (in dB) I have been looking quite thoroughly at different models.
The Honda "Super Quiet Series" 3kw that I'm seriously considering is only 58 dB @full load. Only 49 dB @ quarter load.(at 3 meters)
From what i've been seeing, thats as quiet as any permanently installed units that I've seen so far.
Add to that - it will be installed in one of the bays, thus quieting it further.
As for shooting me, or messing with my equipment,...better not! He who fools with the bull is GONNA get the horns!! :^/
Oh, yeah...
Actually I did state in the orriginal post that I am running primarily 12 volt and LP systems. The generator will be used only when we need 110 v. (micro, blender, even AC on rare occasions!)
So if I use a converter W/ a 3 stage charger (to re - charge the batteries when necessary), the generator SHOULD do an okay job, right?
In other words, no, I don't plan on relying on the generator as fully as others do for their elec systems. In fact, I'm quite sure that there will be many more days without it, than with it.
Thanks for your pros and cons, Sean! And thanks for your explanation of 'inverter chargers'.
I am concerned with what you and jmaxwell described as to the level of sound that I should expect from this generator. Are we sure that we are talking about the same model?
Thanks again,
mark
gillig 636D |
Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (65.74.64.127)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 3:15 am: | |
Mark, most inverter-charger-transfer switch combination units have a continuous rating and a surge rating that can run in the neighborhood of 2 to 2 1/2 times the continuous rating.
This gives you some margin for temporary overloads such as starting your AC or even running a washer and dryer setup. Ours does this just fine, but we have a modified sine wave 2 KVA, so most of the time, it won't start the AC.
I've seen reports that a 2.5 KVA unit will start the AC, but that 3 KVA is better. I've also seen reports that it takes less power for sine wave units.
What I've seen is that sine wave inverters are somewhat less efficient in producing AC power but the ease of running motors makes them worth it for AC use.
I've seen reports that the inverter-generators such as the Honda that you mention won't start an air conditioner because they don't have enough surge capacity; that once you exceed the rated power, the voltage falls off rapidly.
If that is true, you would need to gang two of these together for AC use. If we bought this line, I would not plan on running the AC on just one. I was sort of waiting to see if they would bring out some with higher power ratings in the same design.
For what it's worth.
Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
Suncatcher |
FAST FRED (63.233.189.83)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 5:24 am: | |
Have you contemplated the need for AC juice sans genset?
Sounds like the main power need is for the air cond , the rest might be fine with a battery powered inverter.
You should look up the Panda DC gen sets as they will recharge a big battery bank much faster than an inverters charge output.
If your prime concern is rapid recharge of the DC bank , and IF your willing to spring for a large ($$$) inverter that could run the air cond , you would get 3 advantages.
The DC gensets only spin as fast as needed to make the load,
The batts will get the best rate and quality charge .
And the air cond will probably work thru the inverter from the stock 200A+ coach alt on the road, as well as the DC unit.
The downside is the cost of a fine Sine wave inverter and the DC genset .
The inverters can be had used , and a used coach alt could be spun with the gas / diesel of your choice .
The downside here is the sounddampning needed to quiet this setup.
No problem with propane or gas , big noise from diesel,of about 10 + hp.
FAST FRED |
Dale MC8 (66.81.138.106)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 1:26 pm: | |
Mark, If you are concerned about A/C usage, you might consider a swamp cooler. Back in my days of stick and staple, I had a small (19') 5 th wheel that did just fine with one. Of course, the RV was a small one.
FWIW
Dale |
ChuckMC9 (Chucks) (66.167.142.42)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 5:32 pm: | |
...
(Editor's Note: ChuckMC9, please accept my sincere apology, but as a professional courtesy to Pete Hubbard, I won't have a reference to his web site here. If you would like to paraphrase something that was said there, please feel free to re-submit your message. Thank you. Ian) |
ChuckMC9 (Chucks) (66.167.142.42)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 7:35 pm: | |
YIKES! Sorry Ian, sorry Pete!
Basically, he likes the Honda 2000 a lot and has a great idea for adding fuel capacity. He has used it to replace a more conventional conversion generator.
Humbly suffering through the chastisement,
-Chuck
(Editor's Note: Chuck, no need to feel chastised - it's me apologizing to you. Thanks for your message!) |
njt5150 (68.240.178.237)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 8:49 pm: | |
I saw a good report here for the hondas.
groups.yahoo.com/group/all-bus-nuts/messages |
Sean Welsh (Sean) (64.81.73.194)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 9:00 pm: | |
Mark,
My bad -- I misread the spec on the 3000 for noise. I see now that it's rated 59dB at full load (allthough it does not say what scale they used for the testing). NPS standards, by the way, are 60dB(A) at 50' (A-weighted scale). Personally, I find that number to be high (and this, of course, is for daytime use, as opposed to "quiet hours"). I would shoot for something under 50dB(A) at 10', which you should be able to achieve if you further enclose the unit, as you suggest.
The reason I said that the unit might be small for your needs is that you mentioned you will use mostly 12v appliances. That's great, except that you will need to charge your 12v battery bank periodically. Really good three-stage chargers can use up quite a bit of your genset capacity to charge a decent sized bank in a reasonable time. My charger, for example, will use up to 4kw, and that's just charging batteries with no other AC loads running. At that rate, I would expect to charge my bank in just around three hours.
If you have only a 3kw genny, and you run, say, one roof air on it, that only leaves you around 1200 watts to run any other loads (including DC) as well as charge your battery bank. Allowing for losses, etc., it could take you upwards of five hours to charge up a moderately sized (~400ah) battery bank!
Just my $.02. BTW, I also like FF's DC genset idea for folks with minimal 120vac needs.
-Sean |
Michael J Ryan (Mjryan) (68.124.71.128)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 11:42 pm: | |
Hey you guy's a Honda EU3000 will not run an ac (well maybe a little one a very little one). Hook two together, yes they will. Put two EU2000 together maybe, for a little while, but forget the EU1000. All of these are very quite, you can stand next to them while under load and have a conversation with out shouting I know we sell and service them. If you need more info check out the Honda site.
Michael |
john marbury (Jmarbury) (65.100.118.133)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 9:16 am: | |
Michael,
I need a Remote start for my Honda EV6010. Where should I look and what does Honda call it.
John |
Michael J Ryan (Mjryan) (68.124.71.128)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 2:16 pm: | |
John, I tried to find the remote control on the Honda site, not there, if you can wait until next Tuesday the 8th, when the shop opens I will find out for you.
Michael |
john marbury (Jmarbury) (65.100.118.133)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 6:31 pm: | |
Michael.
Thanks, no hurry, generator is not installed yet.
Email me direct when you find out.
John |
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