| Author | Message | ||
| Buffalokid (63.226.18.50)
Rating: N/A |
I have been parking my 4107 on the street in a quaint neighborhood in front of my girlfriends house. It really looks good and clean..Except for a "bleeping" neighbor would call police every night and they would come to the door and ask who's bus it was (I really don't understand this non-bus consciousness). This went on for two weeks so I asked the officer to issue me a ticket, he bewilderingly oblige'd. So, my girlfriend being an attorney put together a defense for fighting the ordinance. it went something like this. (note: not to be interpreted as legal advice or otherwise..all city ordinances are different) This is the short version...some ordinances are written very carefully and sneaky. The parking on city streets ordinance says something to this effect: no overnight parking allowed by Recreational Vehicles, Commercial trucks or vehicles over 40 ft. To which we were so politely cited for. So, we looked up the definition of an RV according to the city code. It says a vehicle which is used for the primary purpose of sleeping. no.1 So our defense was that it was not used for sleeping but rather a transportation medium for my small business. no. 2 Furthermore, we argued in court that even though the bus had a bedroom in back that it was not obviously being used for the defined purpose because we asked the police officer (he was in court too) where I was when he found the bus..he said I was in the in the house. no. 3 The judge insisted it was an RV because it "had a bed" even though it was not being used.(a judge is always right...right?) So my attorney asked the judge to classify a person sleeping in the bed of their pick-up truck on the street ..(attorney trick stuff) he had to say that it was according to the ordinance an ...he hated to admit it..a "RV". Knowing what had just took place the Judge then ruled in our favor and threw out the citation. Ya-HOOOO! The point is we proved it was not used for what the ordinance said it was used for. Even though it really is an RV you have to make a case for your defense with definitions and some witty tricks. My 4107 meet the length limit of 40 ft so we passed on that. We also submitted an affidavit listing me as an expert witness of building buses being somewhat knowledgable about them. The officer even congratulated us and said he was glad we stopped that pesky neighbor lady from calling them. I parked that bus right in front of the house again that same night and hung that thrown out citation on the windshield with a little note to whom ever dared to read it ( I cant post the note here..diplomacy).......For you cranky old people ...I want you to know that I resisted the urge to park it in front of that pesky ladies home along with a few of my friends buses..I guess I am maturing. I hope this was entertaining for you to read. Remember that this was the short version and may not be EXACTLY the way you need to read it..don't be like that pesky neighbor lady by complaining about my grammar. Thanks. | ||
| Scott Whitney (63.151.64.84) Rating: N/A |
An interesting story indeed! Now I have to think how I could use the precedent in my future situation in which I will, indeed, be sleeping in a bed in the vehicle. My observation is if you have proved in court that the bus is *not* an RV, then how might that play out on the insurance front where you *want* it to be considered an RV rather than a bus. I went round and round on this topic with the insurance company I use for my other vehicles. I could not seem to get them to nail down a specific at which point during the conversion to magically switched from a bus to an RV. Was it a sink? a bed? a shower? that defined it as an RV. They could not say anything other than, 'when the conversion is done, then we can insure it. Until then it is a bus.' So I said, 'what is considered done?' Anyway, this went round and round going nowhere. It would not likely ever happen but what if the old busy body neighbor lady drank a few too many White Zinfindels one night and decided to slash your tires in front of her house. Then you make an insurance claim on your *RV* and they learn that it is considered by the local police (in the police report) as a bus!?!?! Anyway, that is a wild and unlikely scenario, but makes an interesting 'what if' situation legally. I find this topic interesting because: 1) I have been told by police to 'move on' when I *was* sleeping in my 20ft RV in front of someone's house, and 2) because I intend on sleeping in my 40ft bus + 15ft toad soon - but not in front of people's homes. (more likely truck stops, Walmarts, commercial districts etc. . . ) | ||
| Clarke (216.17.134.211)
Rating: N/A |
Several weeks ago, our city council was considering an ordinance prohibiting the parking of RVs in residential neighborhoods, INCLUDING the owner's homesite; i.e., no parking in backyard, sideyard, in front, on driveway, or on street. RV owners showed up in large numbers at the council meeting, and the idea was quickly squelched. | ||
| madbrit (216.67.203.82) Rating: N/A |
In Lake Havasu City, Az. some years ago, they decided to make all RV owners erect some obscuring type carport over their "horrible" RV's. You should see some of the gross "to code" constructions that went up, talk about a backfire..... LOL. This amazed me as the city is full of 'snowbirds' and that is from whom it makes most of its money. Walmart in Kingman is not allowed to have overnighters due to the local campground owners, getting an ordinace passed prohibiting it, but some still park elsewhere, such as the truck stops. You can live in an RV where I live, and most County areas will issue a permit for an RV to be a sort of Granny annex. With Progressive Insurance, the bus is an RV when the Title says it is. If you bought a class 'A' and gutted it out, would it not still be a class 'A'? Therefore if you install that what is neccessary for the MVD to consider the bus an RV, it will always be an RV until it is re-classified. Peter. | ||
| JMaxwell (66.42.92.57)
Rating: N/A |
if your using ure RV in conjunction with a small business that u are operating, doesn't that make the vehicle a "commercial use" vehicle and also prohibited by the city ordinance? The ultimate solution: Flee the city and move to the mountains | ||
| Scott Whitney (63.151.64.84) Rating: N/A |
Well my California DMV title says 'AUTOMOBILE, Body Type: BU' (and it is a 40ft transit. . .) So who knows what a judge may say to that one! Hopefully, I'll never have to find out. I also will have a small business operating out of it. . . | ||
| madbrit (216.67.197.191) Rating: N/A |
If you are using the bus for commercial purposes, such as selling professionally at flea-markets, or other such commercial use, then you need a CDL as well. Gone are any benefits of having the bus registered as a motorhome, because now you are using it as a commercial vehicle. | ||
| steve souza (Stevebnut) (24.91.136.162)
Rating: N/A |
Buffalokid-- I can relate to your problem as I to have a neighbor that persists in stopping my dreams. The building department visited me and told me to remove my bus because I cannot have a "dismantled" vehicle in my yard. So after calling the building department I was able to reason with the big boss there and keep my bus covered up thus satisfying the codes. I have had a rough go in the last two years with this neighbor complaining causing the building department to visit me with "you can't weld here" and the police saying you can't park here (although it was registered at the time) All I do is keep meeting there requirements and pushing forward. (renewed welding permit and told police officer the vehicle was registered) What I am saying is do what is legal,right and fair but do not give up your dream either. Steve | ||
| madbrit (216.67.203.33)
Rating: N/A |
Scott, thank you for bringing this thread back to its intended theme of bus business. Personally, I would think that any 'labelling' of the bus, whether it is by claiming it as a tax write-off or sign-writing it, or having a commercial or business license connected to it, COULD make it liable to a CDL. That would be up to each individual State's Statutes. The example I gave previously, was because I have seen these actual people touring the Swapmeets and Craft Fairs touting their wares with trailers attached, this makes a visable and very obvious statement that a commercial use is going on. In that respect, so would painting your business name down the side. If your business is considered a 'cottage industry' and you are not claiming the bus as part of the business and have no special commercial insurances, etc. I would not think you would have to have a CDL, and anyway, who would know? When I collected my bus from Los Angeles, I asked the Highway Patrol what I needed to be legal to drive it home to Arizona without a CDL. Apart from a one-way trip permit, I was told to spray out the company name from the side of the bus. The seats did not matter, but I must not carry more than 16 people. The only people who can tell you are the MVD, but you could get a different answer from everyone you ask. Look up your State's Statutes on the internet and wade through all the ammendments, if it proves your point, print it out and carry it all with you ammendments and all. I do this with the Arizona ones, just in case of some over zealous Cop who doesn't think I can drive the bus without a CDL or Class B license, which I can if it is from Arizona amongst other States. Hope this helps. Peter. | ||
| Scott Whitney (63.151.64.84) Rating: N/A |
In California, my understanding is the CDL is not required if it is registered as an RV. But since I plan to do some traveling this summer in it, I was wanting to get a general idea of the various state laws. I am hoping to not have to pay RV parks every night, or I'll be broke before I cross the stateline. I also had in mind to do a little self promoting on the side of the bus too, hence my curiosty on that point. Short of researching every state's laws, I am thinking that some low key and tasteful signage might not raise too many cops' brows. Of course, I'll stay away from residential neighborhoods too, unless I know someone and am a guest there. I lived out of an RV once for about 6 months and never had any trouble once I knew the ropes. But a bus is much bigger and I admit I am slightly more anxious about being too conspicous. There is no way to blend a bus into the crowd! I also, don't intend on using the bus as any tax right-offs so hopefully will avoid getting bit by trying to get the best of both worlds. I'd be interested to hear any stories by bus owners who park on streets or store parking lots and DO have some advertising on them. For example, I was also thinking of doing some RV repair service for hire, so a small sign indicating such could bring in a little income while on the road. My conversion is in progress, so I will have a full compliment of tools. . . | ||
| FAST FRED (209.26.87.65) Rating: N/A |
While there are many cars that serve a dual use, the Real Estate salesperson who drives folks about , is one style. The kid delivering Pizza in his car would be another. I would be very cautious as YOUR own insurance Co. will be looking for a way out if you have a fender bender. A ticket from the cops for having a Commercial vehicle registered as an RV is only a bit of cash, but what you can pay for "back pains" is unlimited. The debt could follow you forever. IF I wanted to do RV repair , I woulf get stick on signs and ONLY put them on in the campsite. A big flag might do, as would handouts with info to pass out. Beware ,,,you might get thrown out of the campground , as operating a business that the campground has to have insurance for,, but gets no piece of is unproductive. In a normal boat yard , an "outside contractor" must register , show insurance , workmans comp and PAY $5 to $20 an hour "override" to the yard . However tastefull , I'd hide any signs. FAST FRED | ||
| Mark Radius (24.247.10.59)
Rating: N/A |
Hi. I am wondering if anyone has any experience with local ordinances regarding parking a bus in the street in front of your residence. Also, does anyone know what the ramification are of affiliating a converted bus with a small business as opposed to classifying is simply as an RV? If you think this is an attempt to refocus another thread on this BBS, without the other inFLAMEatory and distracting commentary, YOU'RE RIGHT!!! MR | ||
| Donald Peter (Don) (172.157.23.83)
Rating: N/A |
You really do need to check your local ordinances. They vary all over the place. In San Jose, CA, you can park any registered, non-commerical vehicle on the public streets for 72 hours. If they are there longer than that without being moved, they can be ticketed and towed. Before I retired and moved to a place where I can keep my bus on my property, I had to store my RV. I would bring it out of storage the weekend before a trip to get it ready for the trip. Then I would move it from one side of the street to the other every other day. Even doing that, I found warning notices on it regularly. Someone in the neighborhood would call the police as soon as I brought it home. But regulations can vary from city to city so check your regulations with the local police. The easiest way to do this is to phone and complain about a bus parked in your neighborhood. Then you will find out exactly what the police will do. -- Don | ||
| dougthebonifiedbusnut (24.147.157.103)
Rating: N/A |
damn now ive forgotten who i was talking to but as usuall fast fred is right on dont put anything on the side of you rv that would indicate you are making money with the help of your rv | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior) (152.163.213.79)
Rating: N/A |
Thank you Mark for rescuing this good thread. If the authorities decide that you are indeed a commercial vehicle when you are "out there", the potential for fines will be rather breath taking. For fun: improper registration, avoiding licencing fees, wrong insurance, wrong driver's licence, proper eyesight/medical for a CDL, no drug testing card, no hazardous goods transport qualification, no log book, no pre-trip, no periodic inspection sticker, no CVOR/cab card/operating authority, no fuel tax sticker, "follow me to the scales to get weighed and roadside inspected", overloaded tires/axles, brakes out of adjustment, no prescribed safety equipment, and I'm sure that others can add to the list. Roughly translated, if you do anything with that big can on wheels that is not for personal pleasure or involves compensation, you are going to be found to be a commercial vehicle and lose all those lovely exemptions from the red tape that those who came before, secured for us. Not to mention what the tax folks are going to think of you writing off your pleasure palace as a business expence. They love that stuff. You don't suppose that the tax folks and the DMV talk to one another do you? As always, it only matters if you get caught. Conduct yourself accordingly! happy coaching! buswarrior-MC8-ON | ||
| Scott Whitney (63.151.64.84) Rating: N/A |
Ah, magnetic signs! Now that is a great idea. You could totally control when and where to have the advertising. . . Depending on how you were parked, you could move them around for better exposure or remove them completely. Brilliant! I think my first sign will read: 'WILL WORK FOR LOCAL LEGAL COUNSEL' Scott | ||
| Scott Whitney (63.151.64.84) Rating: N/A |
OK, good, a fresh thread on topic. As far as I know, we have the 72 hour limit here in San Luis Obispo. But I pay for storage and have not yet tested it. However, it has been my experience in an RV that commercial districts are never a problem. But I always moved in the morning (late) and arrvived at a new place well after the businesses had closed. Industrial parks etc., seem to work well. And using the same parking places but on a rotation, worked very well. I was looking for a quite and safe place to sleep, however, not to work on my vehicle. To work on my vehicle during the day, I would go to the public parking lots at the beach or bay. Never had any trouble there, but you can't camp o'nite there. I even retiled my bathroom in the public parking lot. Threw out my old fiberglass shower pan in the dumpster in plain veiw of some cops who were hanging out and they never hassled me at all. The only time I had a problem, was when I first moved into the RV and parked in a residential neighborhood. Someone called and San Diego's Finest came a knocking on my door. I think the trick is to just be contientious and courteous and not push ones luck. Anyway, as I mentioned on the other thread, now I have the bus and will attempt to do the same sort of low key camping. But the 40' bus is not as low key and I am now considering some signage. Sounds like maybe I'd be better off leaving the signage off unless I was at a bus rally or somewhere it would be acceptable. Since I do Web design, most advertising is word of mouth anyway. But I also considered doing some handy man RV repair jobs for cash on the side too. Maybe that is a sticky beast, I'd be better off leaving to the RV dealers. Like someone mentioned, licenses, insurance, bonding etc. . ugh. I got out of the maintenance business because of all that rigamarol. Finally, I must say that I perfectly understand that neighborhoods must have some quality control standards. I don't want to live in a scrap heap either. CC&Rs can be a good thing. If everyone tried to park a bus on the street, it would be a nightmare. Fortunately, only a few verfiably insane indivdiuals like us have buses. For example, I'd like to visit my parents at their house in my bus. But the CC&Rs forbid it. I used to stay for brief periods with my RV, but my bus may be pushing my luck. The local ordinances give me 72 hours, but the CC&Rs stand above the ordinances. Maybe a one night stay, the neighbors would not mind. The bus might be a novelty at first. However, after that I can understand how they would get a bit annoyed at it. IN fact, the CC&Rs in my parent's neighborhood there forbid parking ANY car on the street. But people tend to ignore that one since most of the kids are driving now, which means a minimum of about three cars per house. . . But I am rambling now. . . would be interested to hear other's experiences sleeping in busses on the street. | ||
| FAST FRED (209.26.87.29) Rating: N/A |
When visiting friends in a "fine" neighborhood I have found that if the home owner your visiting calls the cops first,to advise them that you will be there a night or two, that no problem arises. The cops respond to a complaint "Yes were aware of the situation , it has been brought to our attention" This makes the outraged complainer happy { he thinks the wheels of Gov Force and Fraud are rolling} . And the cops dont have to hassle a fine taxpayers guest for nothing. WIN WIN. FAST FRED | ||
| Phil (204.89.170.3) Rating: N/A |
Scott, The only problem is that magnets don't stick to stainless or aluminum!!  | ||
| Usher (162.40.199.109) Rating: N/A |
I would agree that BuffaloKid bent the rules. Reminds me a recent president. Yes, in a perfect world everyone would tell the truth all the time. And no one would get PO'd if you parked a bus on the street for a few days. However, if we all start twisting the truth, soon there will be no truth. The judge was very short sighted in ruling a bed constituted a RV. I bet Buffalokids bus has a lot more facilities than a bed. When you throw in the kithen, bath, color tv and such, there is no doubt an RV parked in the street. The long and short of the matter is Buffalokid should have parked his RV in an acceptable location. To pride oneself in the ability to twist the truth for personal gain, is at best ignorance. | ||
| Donald Peter (Don) (172.167.160.14)
Rating: N/A |
"The long and short of the matter is Buffalokid should have parked his RV in an acceptable location." Right on! But who should decide what is acceptable? Judges? Lawyers? Christians? Blacks? Whites? Jews? Taxpayers whose money maintains the street? Satan? Property owners whose property is adjacent to the street? Police? RV park owners? The oil companies? Put me down for the fire department. If a vehicle of any kind is blocking an emergency exit, have it removed. | ||
| Usher (162.40.199.109) Rating: N/A |
The city had an ordainance against parking an RV in the street. The matter was determined by the law. Period. He should not have parked there. If you don't like the law, work to change it. A witty defense ( ie lying ) is not the answer. | ||
| Donald Peter (Don) (172.167.160.14)
Rating: N/A |
"If you don't like the law, work to change it. A witty defense ( ie lying ) is not the answer." Actually, it is one of the correct possible answers in our country. We have three avenues in our government structure to deal with our interactions with others. One is the legislative where we use our votes and lobbying to get laws passed that meet our desires. Another is the judicial branch where we let another segment of the government interpret the law to decide if it meets our desires. Finally, the executive branch were we can plead to have the law overturned in our favor. All three branches are supposed to be of equal value and power. Of course, in real life, there will always be some imbalance and constant corrections. Are you proposing abolishing the judicial and executive branches of government? | ||
| Usher (162.40.199.109) Rating: N/A |
Abolishing branches of government????? Now there is an idea worth debating. While we are at it, why not discuss abolishing the revenue department. After April 15, this year, I would vote for some type change. But that is a different matter. I guess you are saying if you can pay enough to attorney to lie for you, or are fortunate (??) enough to have a friend that practices law,and willing to lie, anything you can do to beat a legitimate violation of the published law is OK? Excuse me, but I don't think that is what our framing fathers had in mind when they gave us regress under the court system. Sure it happens everyday, and people get by punishment by telling lies and lying under oath, but that does not make it right. Would you encourage your child to escape punishment for a wrongdoing by lying? I sure you would not. So what makes it right here? Pay the fine, move the bus and learn a lesson. | ||
| Usher (162.40.199.109) Rating: N/A |
"Actually, it is one of the correct possible answers in our country." what ever happened to the oath to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth????? | ||
| Donald Peter (Don) (172.139.63.180)
Rating: N/A |
"what ever happened to the oath to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?????" I don't think anything happened to it. Truth is a rather slippery and subjective thing. For example, our country (USA not Canada) held certain "truths" to be self evident. Of course, for the first 100 years or so of our existance as a country they only applied to white males. It was also the "truth" for most of recorded history that the earth was flat. And now we're trying to discover the "truth" about global warming. Using your brains and wits to get at the "truth" or attempt to convince others of the "truth" does not automatically make you a liar. Even if you are proven wrong later. -- Don | ||
| Scott Whitney (63.151.64.84) Rating: N/A |
The TRUTH can be *very* subjective. White lies are an everyday necessity to preserve social harmony. (If your wife asks you if she looks fat in a certain outfit, does she really want the truth?) But there are also absolute TRUTHs. Some people would rather die in denial and ignorance than know an absolute TRUTH. Where as an absolute TRUTH is unwavering across the universe for all time, our laws are human and are subject to interpretation. Legislators have written the laws to keep lawyers in business, so that the laws are always open for interpretation and reinterpretation. If a law does not suit our desires, we should examine it and see if it can be reinterpreted to better suit us. WHy not? Is that bad? They were written that way. If a law says no parking RVs on the street, it is ones duty to ask, 'what defines an RV'. Right? Otherwise the law is vague and ambigous can not be enforced. Is a van conversion an RV? A mini-van with the seats down? A panel truck with a sink? A bus with no seats? A plastic RV with all the luxuries of home? Or the previous example of a guy in the back of his pick-up with a sleeping bag? Can a drunk person sleep in the back seat of their car to avoid driving home? Or is the car now an RV and they must drive elsewhere? It must be defined, otherwise the law is a bad law and should be challenged. Now, if the law had said no vehicles longer than 25 feet from bumper to bumper, it would have been clear and precise and a no brainer. The bus would not belong there in that case. Maybe the laws should be SOOO vague that every case can be brought to litigation. Maybe it should be, 'no vehicles that are not fitting to the neighborhood can be parked'. Then every single vehicle ever parked on the street could be cited for being unfit. The old lady can state her case and let a judge decide. Anyway, I don't know the answer, I just submit that since the laws are written and are open for interpretation, we need to challange them when we feel they are wrong or unjustified. Scott Other thoughts: #1 Good idea from FF about informing the police ahead of time, so as to nip the problem in the bud. #2 It occurred to me that finding some flat are of steel on the bus would make it hard to get a sign to stick. I was wondering if it would stay on an aluminum area with the steel ribes behind. Guess, I'd have to try it. Maybe fabric backed vinyl signage with grommets and hooks would be better. Either way, I am going to continue to do Web development from my bus because: It is my home business & the bus will be my new home. As far as I am concerned that justifies it. If I get cited for not having a CDL and all that other malarky, you bet I'll be in court fighting a law! | ||
| Buffalokid (63.226.15.91) Rating: N/A |
Holy Moley, this is way outta hand! ( I asked my girlfriend to write up a better version of what took place ...versus my "short" version. Hope you can use this info. thanks, Buffalokid) I am the immoral, evil, horrible attorney who not only helped Buffalo Kid “beat the rap” but I am also his girlfriend, gosh darn me. He thought it would be helpful for you all to learn how we dealt with a legal problem relating to bus ownership. Here are the true facts: (1) The little old lady who lives across the street from me is in fact a mean busybody who has called the cops on everyone who lives on this end of our block. She has pissed off and alienated everyone on this street. She calls the cops if she thinks your grass is too long, your kids are too loud, or your dogs bark. She doesn't come over and talk to you, calling the cops is her first move. The bus was parked in my driveway-she called the cops because it was “blocking the sidewalk”--all of two inches. (By the way, this is the next to last house on a dead end street with no foot traffic) So he parked it in my front yard-cops called again. Buffalokid moved it in front of my house, and she called the cops again. After the third or fourth time the cops came out we asked them to cite us, so we could take it to court and get a judge to render a decision. The cops were happy to do so, because they were tired of coming out on these nuisance calls. By the way, she would usually call the police at three or four in the morning, waking us up to answer the door. We do need our sleep, what with working, and all the wanton debauchery and wild, immoral sex we engage in every waking hour. (2) My family has lived on this street since 1968. I grew up on this street, and my mom still lives here. Two years ago I bought this house from my uncle, who owned it since 1979. Our the “little old lady” bought her house about five years ago. If anyone has the right to peaceably park a legal vehicle here, it is me and my guests. No other neighbor has ever had a problem with us, or with the bus. (3) We live in a college town. Many people come here and stay for a weekend during football season, or to see rock concerts, or just passing through. The city passed an ordinance prohibiting RV camping in private neighborhoods because people were tired of getting up in the morning and finding their street had become a campground, with greywater being dumped in their yards. This was the ordinance under which we were cited. I read the ordinance carefully, and realized that the bus did not fall under the definition of “RV” as it was defined in our city's ordinance. This was our point in court. The judge agreed with us. It was as simple as that. Every city writes its ordinances differently, and under some a bus may fall within the definition of an RV. But, folks, that’s not a lawyer trick, or “beating the system” that's how law works. It is the obligation of the city or state to write a clear and comprehensible law, understandable by the majority of citizens, it is not the citizen’s obligation to guess what the city or state means by “RV”. So, if you have a similar problem, my advice to you is get the exact law, and read it, and compare it to the facts. Because relatively few people have buses or private coaches compared to RV’s, very few laws regulating RV’s actually contemplate or include busses--it just doesn't occur to most lawmakers to include them, but READ YOUR LOCAL ORDINANCE OR LAW. 90% of the time you can figure it out yourself, and determine if it applies to your situation. If not, call an attorney. Many will provide you with an initial consultation for very low cost. The point of the initial posting was to provide information on solving a problem, that’s all. Thanks for reading. Oh, by the way, the Shakespeare line everyone likes to quote--It’s spoken by a bad guy, who is conspiring to murder the king and take over the kingdom. The context is that if all the lawyers are dead, the courts will have to shut down, there will be no one to put them on trial for their crimes, and they can murder, rape and pillage without consequence. Just thought you’d like to know. | ||
| Peter Broadribb (Madbrit) (216.67.196.239)
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Buffalokid, I tell you what, you are one lucky guy to have a girl with that sort of sense of humor. I absolutely love that last response and have printed it out. I would love to shake you both by the hand, and if I ever need a lawyer, I will be in touch. Then again, that girl of yours is probably nowhere near me, so that probably wouldn't work anyway. I am in Arizona. I wish you both the best of luck with your 'friendly' neighbor. Peter. | ||
| Kris & Cathy Austin (Krisncathy) (216.254.5.21)
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Hello Buffalogirl, I have to give you credit, you are very pollished, poised, and articulate, and didn't react as many of your defenders did, which gives you more credibility and helps explain why you are such an effective lawyer. I also admire Buffalokid for maintaining his sense of composure.(What happened reminded me of when Dan Quayle stated he didn't think glorifying single mothers was a good idea, and all of a sudden got ganged up on by all sorts of people because he had dared to stand up for family values. That still doesn't change the fact that we are on opposite sides of the cultural war, and it still doesn't change the fact that the judge threw out the ordinance because of your witty argument that a truck with a bed could be classified as an RV. Another problem with our country is Judges who lack judgement. My point is that when we live by the letter of the law, instead of the spirit of the law, we are in trouble. "The letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." People looking to get around the law are always looking for loopholes, or chads, or dimples, or what have you, not just simply "clarification." >(1) The little old lady who lives across the street from me is in fact a mean busybody who has called the cops on everyone Attacking the person and discrediting them instead of focusing on the issue is a classic liberal manuever, which is probably why it was used first. If he was breaking the law, what difference does it make who reports him or why, or when she calls? May be she was a drug addict working for a $20 tip from the local cop, so what? Don't misunderstand me, I am in no way defending unkind actions of the LOL. I will point out here that we are only hearing one side of the story, the LOL isn't here to defend herself and she is being slandered, and no one seems to mind that. Whereas I was castigated by some simply for responing to what Buffalokid said about himself on a pubic forum. Smacks of a double standard folks. By the way, another way to stop wasting taxpayer money and police time was to simply move your bus until after the judge decided, but here we see a glimpse of true motives. >She has pissed off and alienated everyone on this street Heresay evidence, counselor, and not admissable as testimony. But I bet you knew that. Also note how practically no one even thinks of defended the LOL plaintiff, who is not here to defend herself, against these libelist attacks impuning her character. >(2) My family has lived on this street since 1968 So if I lived here longer than you I have the right to break the law? >(3) ...people were tired of getting up in the morning and finding their street had become a campground, with greywater being dumped in their yards. Another classic liberal ploy is to use the worst case senario to get empathy, to appeal to the emotions instead of the facts, (I'm trying to get you to focus on the principle, not the individual circumstance or players) i.e. painting pictures of lines of busses up and down the avenue dumping their tanks all over the place. After all, we're just parking our RV in our own driveway, that isn't so bad, is it? If it is against the law, yes. We all know of many neighborhoods that simply don't want to have RVs, Boats, etc. parked all over the place, this is simply a battle of who is going to get their way. Examples of this abound: "Look at this poor woman who can't afford medicine, why my dog gets better care than her, don't you think government should take care of this poor woman?" No, why don't you go buy her medicine yourself? The real motive is never what you are told, just the emotional story to throw you off the real issue. The "I can park my bus you can't" is also a typical liberal attitude as evidenced by anti-gun advocates shooting skinny dippers in their pools with unregistered weapons. >that’s not a lawyer trick, or “beating the system” that's how law works. That's how the law works NOW. But it wasn't always so. Law used to be based on principles, you know, doing what was right. But liberals changed it around a while back to be based on PRECEDENT, what did some other judge say about this, doesn't matter if he was right or not. (This is a another topic altogether, but hey, she brought it up, not me. E-mail me if you're interested in a further explanation.) >No other neighbor has ever had a problem with us That's why our founding fathers created a Republic instead of a Democracy. A Republic respects and protects the rights of the individual, a Democracy is majority rules. If all your neighbors woke up tomorrow morning and voted to set your bus on fire would that make it right? >We do need our sleep, what with working, and all the wanton debauchery and wild, immoral sex we engage in every waking hour. Another classic liberal ploy, ridicule. Instead of stating it's OK to have wild, immoral sex, and then giving her reasons why, she doesn't defend herself at all, she just makes a big joke out of it. Some expect to be able to brag about certain behavior and just get a pass on it, while attacking anyone for simply saying that behavior is wrong. >I am the immoral, evil, horrible attorney... More ridicule. I never said you were evil or horrible. I am simply stating that certain behavior is immoral, dishonest, etc. As far as God is concerned, we have all broken His law, and there are no loopholes or appeals with Him. >that's how law works. It is the obligation of the city or state to write a clear and comprehensible law, understandable by the majority of citizens, it is not the citizen’s obligation to guess what the city or state means by “RV”. Any Joe off the street with half a brain knows a bus with a bed and a bathroom is an RV, only some lawyers don't seem to understand. First they take a simple to understand idea, "no overnight parking of an RV," challenge it till you have to have 1000 different explanations about what an RV is or isn't,then tell you you're obligated to right a law "any citizen can understand." This is a bottomless pit folks. | ||
| Scott Whitney (63.151.68.130) Rating: N/A |
A comment was made that the spirit of the law should be followed, not the letter of the law. Fine, I agree. As far as I can surmise from the data given, the spirit of the law was to give the local police a way to cite out of town, drunken football fans when found camping in neighborhoods. (This sounds logical) Buffalokid was not violating the spirit of the law as far as I can see, and so the judge had the wisdom to throw it out when an apparently intelligent person brought the case before his honor. It only took some clever examination of the letter of the law to make the case. Sounds like justice was served to me. Good on ya. | ||
| Dave (64.111.120.146)
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Enjoyed all the comments, now for the trivia . I have a Ca CDL A with double/Triples/tanks/hazardous material endorsements. I have never driven doubles/triples hauled hazardous materials nor anything like a tank. It is $55 to get, $99 in Marysville CA for a truck to take the test. The medical form checks several things. Can you see the bottle? Can you lift the bottle? Can you hit the bottle? If you do and you have a normal specimen, you do this every 2 years. So I can bus with air, haul a trailer, have a bus with storage tanks, including the toxic odor one. A log book showing driving time in the last week will deter most Highway men. No hassle at all. Use their tools and you avoid back pains!!! Dave in CA | ||
| FAST FRED (209.26.87.28) Rating: N/A |
IF you ever get the time to travel to the historical places in the US you might get a big suprise. IN Fredericksberg STATE park in GA they have a list of the rulles for the colonists , how much grain , sugar and provisions will be issued , ect. The last item in the list SPECIFICILLY PROHIBITS LAWYERS from the colony. Guess these hard working pioneers wanted "courts will have to shut down, there will be no one to put them on trial for their crimes, and they can murder, rape and pillage without consequence." DOESNT sound too rational to me , that hundreds of folks would happily put up with this tragic ? oversight! Get out and learn the HORRORS of INJUSTICE your "occupation" has caused to the world , now and for much of history. FAST FRED | ||
| FAST FRED (209.26.87.50)
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This is why lawyers and insurance companies are so popular. A Charlotte, NC man having purchased a box of very rare, very expensive cigars insured them against fire among other things. Within a month of having smoked his entire stockpile of cigars and without having made even his first premium payment on the policy, the man filed claim against the insurance company. In his claim, the man stated the cigars were lost "in a series of small fires." The insurance company refused to pay, citing the obvious reason: that the man had consumed the cigars in the normal fashion. The man sued...and won! In delivering the ruling, the judge agreed that the claim was frivolous. He stated nevertheless that the man held a policy from the company in which it had warranted that the cigars were insurable and also guaranteed that it would insure against fire, without defining what is considered to be "unacceptable fire," and was obligated to pay the claim. Rather than endure a lengthy and costly appeal process, the insurance company accepted the ruling and paid the man $15,000.00 for the rare cigars he had lost in the "fires." HERE COMES THE GOOD PART!! After the man cashed the check, the insurance company had him arrested on 24 separate counts of ARSON. With his insurance claim and testimony from the previous case being used against him, the man was convicted of intentionally burning his insured property and sentenced to 24 months in jail and a $24,000.00 fine. So after all this the TAXPAYERS get nicked for a hundred grand for the series of trials, {judges do get paid OVER the table too} and about $30,000 a year while our smartie rots in jail. Well at least somone will LOVE him , whilst in da pokey. FAST FRED | ||
| CoryDaneRTSII (198.29.253.131) Rating: N/A |
The Ordinance is created by a group of people who have either been paid to perform a favor or someone wanted to test a law. This is legal and the reason they do this, though a pain in the ass for us, is so that it WILL BE TESTED IN THE WATERS. This is the way they do it and though our over bearing Christian friends feel this is not true, The reason the law was changed was because the ordinance was tested and lost. As for creating a play on words, that is the legal system, not a trick by us or them. this is the way they test the law and if it can be proven default,it is dropped. MORE people should practice this as it is a right of the people, as is freedom of speech for the Christians to complain, wrongly) about the misgivings of testing such a law. There is no answer here as the lawyers will make laws And test them all the time, though we don't see this but when it becomes public, the busy bodies will voice their opinions, liken this to the OLD LADY and you can see the way it works. It was a good answer, it was a good test and it is good that it was thrown out. | ||
| Rich Lanigan (24.218.245.137)
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Yeah back in January I had a neighbor complain to the city about my bus and the city cited an ordinance that said I could not have it there. The ordinance said I could not have it in disrepair or disassemble. I talked to the city but could not find a way around it so I decided a garage was in order. I got a permit and am in the process of adding onto my existing garage, big enough for the bus and workshop. The neighbor couldn't stand the site of me working on my bus but now he'll have to endure 6 months of me building the garage and all the dust flying around....it's been windy a lot since I dug the footings and all that dirt is creating lots of dust for him. I live in a fairly new development and my house is the first house you see when you drive down the street. I'm excited about that soon I'll have a garage to work on my bus but I can't help wondering how commercial the house will look with a 14 foot high garage door. That's probably the next complaint I'll hear. My only downfall to doing the garage is that was going to be the money for converting the bus, now it's going to take longer for me to complete. | ||
| Clarke (216.17.134.4)
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I was considering building a garage/shop for the bus I'm building. I contacted the city and they told me that I could not build a separate building over 900 square feet in area on a single-family residential lot (unless I got a variance approved by the planning commission and/or city council. When I explained that I own two parcels: the lot my home is on (1.4 acres) and an adjoining lot outside the city limits where I can build exactly whatever I want and any size I want, and the real question was who will get the property taxes, they suggested we talk about it. :-) The real kicker came when a city building official told me that if I attach it to my home, I can build it as big as I want without restriction. I asked if a covered walkway across the yard would qualify if it is connected to both buildings. He told me it definitely would. That would really frost the snooty neighbors around who object to some of my "activities", but who haven't been able to come up with any basis for stopping them. :-) Problem now is that the area is getting so valuable that I'm having trouble justifying the building. It makes more sense to move and build it elsewhere with the capital gains on the land we have now. | ||
| Rich Lanigan (216.204.14.100)
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Hi Clarke, I was ready to move if I couldn't get the permit for the garage. I would like to have more land, (I only have a half acre) but in order to do that it would mean moving out of town. Raising three kids as a single parent would make things a lot more difficult for me if I had to move. The neighborhood I live in is great for the kids. I'm curious, I know you've been building your own bus, are you doing it out in the yard? Rich | ||
| Clarke (216.17.134.198)
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Yep. Right in front of my garage in the driveway. The driveway is below street level, so it looks smaller than it really is. A friend today commented about how much bigger my Neoplan is that I bought from the Denver Transit system two months ago than the "trailer" (his words) that I've been building is. If he only knew. :-) The "trailer" is four feet longer and another 18" taller and side-by-side there would definitely be a contrast. As for raising three kids as a single parent, my hat's off to you. We raised nine but we did it together. We've known friends who lived out of town a few miles, and the commuting into town for school and other activities is a real killer. We live on a main arterial street with lots of traffic, so we're the first ones plowed out when there's a snow storm, and there are other advantages. Up to now, we've had no close neighbors, but the area is closing in with development on all sides, hence the reluctance to do much more work on the fixed assets on the premises. The Neoplan sits in front of the garage at street level (the driveway slopes downward, parallel to the front of the garage) so the bus I'm building is behind and at a lower level. A lot of people talk about it, many watch with interest, wondering what they'll see next, and others are, I'm sure, a bit dismayed. They must lead terribly dull lives. :-) Some refer to our place as "The Never Ending Story". :-) Motto: If people are going to talk about you anyway, you might as well control the subject. Clarke |