| Author |
Message |
MikeM (209.52.92.132)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 4:14 pm: | |
I am in the process of converting a 1981 GMC 5307N City Transit bus. Seems there are very few city transits being converted.
The shell for my project was mostly chosen for financial reasons, but as a first project (on a tight budget) intended for weekend summer vacation use, I am happy with my choice.
Wondering how many on this board are converting / have converted such a beast. I am looking for ideas and support from those who have faced the unique challenges this type of bus poses. A link to photos or a web site would be greatly appreciated.
Here is a link to my page showing my progress so far.
http://www.plumcrazy.ca
This board has been an inspiration and an invaluable resource so far.
Thanks to all.
Mike. |
DaveD (142.46.199.18)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 4:49 pm: | |
Looks like you got a great deal.
Dave Dulmage |
David Anderson (168.215.176.175)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 5:12 pm: | |
Wow, At that price, how could you go wrong? Geoff is converting a transit. He will probably write in later down the thread and give you some great ideas.
Good Luck
David Anderson |
jim mci-9 (209.240.205.60)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 6:33 pm: | |
i cant see the link... it needs to be moved over so i can get to the sidebar!! |
MikeM (209.52.92.132)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 7:05 pm: | |
Hold your mouse over the red bar on the left side, you should see a "tool drawer" slide out. Links are in the drawer.
Mike. |
Jose (63.186.9.133)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 7:08 pm: | |
Ok for You old timers'
Remeber Rick Beavington 1996, I think he started his fish bowl conversion !
Mike try;
www. anglefire.com/ne/mickeyminnie/
I believe Rick has a article about his fish bowl on the BNO pages. Seems like there were several others transits on the BNO conversions in progress pages
Where are they at I@n ?
Oh, to show my age:
Know why they were called fish bowls ?
The drivers complained they were too visible, had no privacy, could not scratch in public, that is a fact !
Look at the old style buses to compare.
Jose, dumb,retired mechanic |
Larry (208.18.102.2)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 7:18 pm: | |
Same here I thought I was missing something. Looks to be a good one to start with,if it fits your needs, nothing is wrong with converting a city bus. |
Geoff (Geoff) (66.238.120.34)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 7:19 pm: | |
It looks like a really clean bus! If you can follow the floor plan you have laid out it will be nice, but with a 35'er everything will have to be miniture to fit. Before you get too far along upstairs be sure the holding tanks and drains will fit where you need them down below. I am converting an 40' RTS and a lot of pre-planning has to be done to make everything fit. Keep it simple and your family will love going camping in the "bus"!
--Geoff
'82 RTS CA |
jim mci-9 (209.240.205.60)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 7:23 pm: | |
dont have a mouse to move .. with a webtv.... is there any way to send me a different link??? jimcat2@webtv.net |
CoryDane RTSII (66.155.188.226)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 7:24 pm: | |
Hey Mike
There are more Transits being or have been converted than you might imagine.
As you found, Transits are chosen with econmy for the initial buy in mind. Now that you have your sweet thing, you need to work out the layout.
You have about the same space inside the coach as most of the Parlor coaches, Minus the 3 or 4 steps to climb to get up to the coach deck.
Depending on your planned use, "Fulltime, vacation, occasional" will depend on your layout. You have four wheel wells in your layout to plan on. In the bedroom, the wheel well is usually covered over with a bed, closet or chest, not usually a big concern. Up front, a nice couch maybe a table or seat will hide them nicely.
The bathroom will be a concern only because of the toilet.
There are several ways to look at this problem.
INCINOLET, is a toilet that is electric, 120vac, runs a hour uses about 1800 watts when incinerating. Waste turns to a sterile dust, a very tiny amount that you throw away.
The wet toilet comes in many versions, one I just saw was, I think a marine toilet and it had a removeable tank under the seat. Used like a norm toilet, the tank is tanken out and emptied, slides out from the side of the toilet.
The "standard" toilet uses a tank under the floor. One of our people suceeded in placing a low profile tank on the floor, placing the toilet on a platform just above it.
Placing the tank under the floor will require space void of bus equipment. You will find that this is probably the only thing that may limit your choice of locations for the potty position.
Transits usually do not have storage below the floor, but space is available to make storage. This you need to check out on your bus.
Potable and Grey tanks usually go in the storage compartments under the floor. ON A TRANSIT, to save space in the storage compartment, try to incorporate your tanks above floor, under the cabinets. Low profile tanks can be built in easily and not take a lot of precious space.
The rest will be fairly easy, look for storage under the bed, under the couch, any furniture that you can put a space for all the fun stuff you will need or want to take with you on a trip.
I am converting a 79 GMC RTSII and I have had a lot of help and suggestions from this board. DO NOT be afraid to ask questions here. Most readers are Transit Friendly.
Hope I was helpful.
"Imagine Your Dreams"
cdcd |
CoryDane RTSII (66.155.188.226)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 7:34 pm: | |
Sorry to double post, I just saw your layout, funny could not get in before.
Only two comments,
1) the rear door, I thought those buses had a emergency exit type door, that looked like the rest of the bus, maybe you could incorporate that.
2) Watch your weight distribution. You seem to have all the weight on the Streetside of the bus, if so perhaps some of it can be shifted to the curb side.
Nice price you seem to have gotton a great deal, good luck with your family project.
"Imagine Your Dreams"
cdcd |
jim mci-9 (209.240.205.60)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 8:06 pm: | |
i'm remodeling a "54 gm 5105.... th aluminum work is the best ive ever seen.... |
dougthebonifiedbusnut (24.62.99.43)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 8:22 pm: | |
Hey Mike
I think those fishbowls are the coolest transits I started one and wish i had finished it I have a bunch of glass for that bus if you live somewhere in the east |
Scott Whitney (69.35.6.233)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 9:12 pm: | |
I am converting a Flxible New Look transit. Very similar in many respects to a Fish. Mine is 102' x 40'. I spent a LOT of time crawling around in the dirt welding up a trusswork of under floor space for storage, H20 tanks, propane, genset, plumbing, batteries etc.
Looking back now, it probably would have been easier to raise the roof on a highway coach and have storage bays left over. But no complaints. This bus serves my needs for a work vehicle and home. I think nothing of drilling a hole thru something whenever I need to attach a thingmajigger. But a shiny highway coach will be in my future someday. I fulltime and baggage bays would be ever so nice.
Lots of pics on my site: (although badly in need of an update)
http://www.dustyfoot.com
Scott
P.S. I noticed an extra space in one of the URLs above. If someone is cutting and pasting, might need to eliminate the space. |
BrianMCI96A3 (69.34.169.42)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 9:24 pm: | |
I personally love having 300 cubic feet of bay space, BUT who doesn't like the look of those old GM
transits... and it looks to be in really great shape
too.
Man oh man, $800 Canadian?
I mean REALLY!
That is just amazing.
Brian |
Darryl (68.184.115.116)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 10:01 pm: | |
Mike, that's one of the best looking 5307's I've seen. It's really clean. I haven't found anything yet that will beat their ride --- really smooth. Congratulations! This should be a great family project. |
ChuckMC9 (Chucks) (69.3.75.38)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 10:35 pm: | |
You've gotten a lot of 'attaboys' Mike, and I'll add another for the toolbox metaphor for navigating your site. Very nicely done and classy. |
Greg Corbett (Kootking) (24.70.251.188)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 11:34 pm: | |
Nice bus you grabbed there, saw it on the transit sheet, is the only damage at the door area?
There was a conversion for sale heading east out Hwy33, did you see it, another GMC.
There are others in the area doing conversions (not just the expensive ones) but other "Nuts".
I don't have strong woodwork skills so waiting for a chequebook conversion (love a couple MCI 9s in Penticton), but my money is more in your price range though.
Enjoy, looks like a great buy! |
Bill Gerrie (216.185.73.9)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2004 - 12:35 am: | |
Mike
You will enjoy converting your transit. I have had one since 1984 and really enjoy travelling with it. Ours is a 1965 TDH5303 40" x 102". Good luck. Bill |
Voodoo Lounge (66.218.59.68)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2004 - 1:15 am: | |
Like Scott, I too am devoting some energy to a Flx New Look conversion. The price was right and I see it as not only a learning experience but an Odyssey of sorts.
So far I can impress the crap out of all my neighbors on the subject of diesel engines and they walk by my yard at a respectful distance whenever they hear my engine running, my compressor chugging or mysterious sparks coming from underneath at all hours of the day and night.
My New Look has great character, some history and will still run about 80 with original 8V71 and
VS2 tranny.
I will be looking for a highway coach soon to put my education to work and have a rig to last out my coming retirement. In the meantime I will have a durable, usable land yacht that I will be able to someday pass along to another enthusiast that can either share my dream or erase the board and draw a fresh dream of his own on a strong and worthy foundation.
Alan Heaberlin
Mojave Desert |
grant (65.73.182.35)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2004 - 2:18 am: | |
I too want to share my experience on converting a transit. I have a 61 4517, 35 foot 96 inch newlook transit. For two years I have enjoyed learning about my bus addiction and hedging my investment should ever a cure be found. However, to date, my addiction continues as I excitedly learn new about welding, plumbing, rear view systems, diesel, electrical, woodwork, hydraulics, chat rooms and ebay bidding. With my bus I have the opportunity to travel to find a part, meet new and wonderful people and most importantly spend time with my 12 year old son teaching him the lessons I have learned along the way.
I look forward to completing this journey, but am smelling the roses or fumes along the way.
Keep going and don't listen to anyone who only encourages you to "convert" to their dream.
Best of luck! |
Bryan Larrabee (24.69.255.205)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 1:45 pm: | |
Mike,
When you removed the bus heat did you remove the two fans from under the bus? That fan assembly takes up quite a bit of room under there. You might be able to use that space for something. I'd be curious to know how difficult it is to remove that stuff.
Bryan
Vancouver BC |
MikeM (24.70.128.130)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 02, 2004 - 12:43 am: | |
Haven't removed the huge radiator / fan system from under the bus, but plan to as soon as the snow melts enough for me to crawl underneath. I plan to use the circulation system and put in 2 smaller rads and fans with a webasto style heater in line. I'll post all that stuff as I get to it on my site.
Thanks to everyone for their comments and words of encouragement.
Mike. |
randy humburg (Rands5302) (65.56.57.70)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 02, 2004 - 11:06 am: | |
hi mike started converting sdm 5302 9 years ago and love it we have put over 80k miles on it in 7years canada to key west injoy it |
Al Spanjer (67.51.179.153)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 02, 2004 - 4:49 pm: | |
greetings...
Maybe I missed...but where did you find it?
Al |
MikeM (209.52.92.132)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 03, 2004 - 12:52 pm: | |
Found this bus at the Local BC Transit yard. They were phasing out the old Fishbowls for the newer Orion units. They had several that they put up for bid, this one wasn't taken due to some damage to the front steps and door from an accident. Not a problem for me since I will probably be closing off the front door, or at least fabricating my own door to fit.
Mike. |
Phil Dumpster (24.16.189.48)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 05, 2004 - 12:54 am: | |
It's sad that BC Transit is phasing out the old fishbowls. A common sight was to see many of them moving along BC99 with heavy automobile traffic and keeping right up with it. Those were all muzzleloaders with suburban seating but no understorage. I imagine most of those were snapped up by charter operators.
What is your top speed? 70 Km/Hr is about 45 MPH, a bit slow for the highway especially since you're probably right up at the governor, which is a definate no-no for long term cruising. A number of 40 foot coaches with 6V71 power had Allison V730 underdrive transmissions. Swapping over to the overdrive version would gain some top end for you.
The 6V71 is fine if you aren't in a hurry. With proper gearing you can cruise on the level with the best of them, only slowing significantly on hills and even then you can consider it an opportunity to look at the scenery.
Probably the most important part of this hobby, coach-wise, is starting with a bus which is in excellent mechanical condition. |
Johnny (63.159.125.82)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 10:38 pm: | |
Uhh, I thought a Detroit was happiest running right on the governor? The 6V71 at work seems to be. |
Phil Dumpster (24.16.189.48)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 3:47 am: | |
Only when at maximum power, and even then not for hours on end, such as when climbing a long hill. On the level, unless you are heavily loaded or driving into a hurricane, the engine isn't at maximum power.
Don't remember what the "sweet spot" is for the 6V71 but the 8V71 is around 1200RPM and the 6V92TA is around 1600RPM, but you'd have to ask Geoff to be certain. Generally speaking, you want to cruise at the point on the power curve where the fuel consumption is the lowest per horsepower/hour. |
Johnny (63.159.187.17)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 12:27 pm: | |
Our TDH5300, with a 6V71/V730, tops out at 56MPH on the governor. Unless it's downhill, it requires easily 85-90% throttle to hold that speed. |
Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (65.74.64.127)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 10:12 pm: | |
Johnny, there is no way for you to tell what amount of throttle the engine is running on because of the governor unless you have some pretty good sensing equipment on the engine. The stock engine does not come with that kind of measuring gear, AFAIK.
The pedal postion is not much of an indicator.
For What it's worth.
Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
Suncatcher |
Johnny (63.159.129.166)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 12:43 am: | |
This thing is so underpowered it isn't funny--basically, you're at WOT most of the time just to try to keep up with traffic.
On the highway, it's basically a "peg it & hope you don't get run over" deal. |
Phil Dumpster (24.16.189.48)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 3:55 am: | |
Actually, there's a governor between you and the injector rack on the engine. Think of the accelerator pedal telling the governor what speed (RPM) you want. The governor then moves the injector rack to try to comply with your request.
From a stop, if you mash the pedal to the floor, the governor will give the engine full throttle (sometimes through a hydraulic damper) while your foot is to the floor. As the bus speeds up, and the engine approaches its governed RPM limit, the governor backs off of the injector rack to keep the engine from exceeding the speed you command through the accelerator pedal. With your foot on the floor, driving down the freeway, the governor may be giving the engine only half or 1/4 maximum fuel.
It is this condition that Detroit 2 cycle engines are not built to withstand for constant use. In your case, keeping the speed down to 52MPH or so would be helpful to the longevity of your engine. Your fuel economy should also measurably increase at the lower speed.
A set of highway gears would be the best solution. |
Johnny (63.159.126.144)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 9:13 pm: | |
But would this dog even pull highway gears? With a full load of people, a fairly mild grade (3-4%) is a WOT, first-gear, 15MPH affair. It will not pull second at all on that hill.
The best solution is the infusion of about 100HP so it isn't a rolling road hazard.
52MPH on the highways near Boston? The word "suicidal" comes to mind. |
Phil Dumpster (24.16.189.48)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 3:00 am: | |
Yes, your 6V71 powered coach could run with a highway gear ratio just fine. Acceleration wouldn't be all that great, but should be acceptable, and on the level you'd be able to cruise at a good speed and have better fuel economy.
Hills will always be a problem with a small engine in such a large bus with an automatic transmission. With the torque converter unlocked there is quite a bit of power lost as heat in the transmission. If your bus had a stick, it would probably take a hills a little better.
A set of highway gears probably wouldn't slow your bus down much on hills, if at all.
If it's any consolation to you, a 6V92TA powered MC9 with an automatic and with a full load of people probably wouldn't top 30MPH from a standing start up a 4% grade.
If you want the definition of slow, try an SDH4503 with 6V71 and VH9 two speed transmission running into a highway rear end. It's actually a single speed transmission with a 2 speed torque converter, locked and unlocked. Shifts at around 40MPH. It's "wind the engine up against the governor) from a dead stop to 40MPH. Then take your foot off the throttle until it shifts, then get back on the throttle. Time it in the quarter mile with a calendar.
At least with the V730, you have three gears to choose from, which would help acceleration a bit.
If you want a 150 HP infusion and are willing to do an engine/transmission swap, later this year I know where some 6V92TA DDEC II/ZF-5 speed angle drive power packs will be coming up at auction. Don't know how much they'll go for but if they are less than $500 each I'm going to grab a couple for future projects. |