| Author | Message | ||
| Ace (24.28.41.194) Rating: N/A |
With the problems I am encountering it puzzles me to no end so I have decided to take the H3 to ABC bus is Winter Park for diagnostic work and possibly a fix or two! Thinking out loud with other bus nuts, could it be possible that the ECM got damaged when the dealer "welded" the hitch on? Not familiar with ECM's and or what they do YET but I'm learning! I was tod that one guys Jake Brake shut down due to welding and another's fast idle quit because of welding. I know the dealer we bought it from has done many busses with many welds but could it be possible they over looked precautionary measures and caused the problems I am having? Hey I'm reaching for anything I can and do you think this is reaching too far? I guess the diagnostic testing will tell everything I need to know... at big $$$$$ to find out! It will be money well spent with them because Susan is about to enroll me in a sleeping class so I can get some sleep!  Thanks Ace | ||
| Nick Morris (Nick3751) (65.117.139.135)
Rating: N/A |
I've heard of all kinds of crazy stuff happening when you weld on vehicles without unhooking the bats. Never experinced any myself but I always unhook when I weld on trucks and the like. I have welded more than once on tractors with no ill effects but they were older model with no electronics to speak of. Just what I've heard right wrong or otherwise. | ||
| Steve Toomey (66.216.130.200)
Rating: N/A |
Yes, Welding on vehicles with electronics can be dangerous to the electronics. My experience is with DC Powered Electric Forklifts. On them the manufacturer actually recommended that the computer circuitry be completely isolated while welding was taking place. | ||
| ralph7 (208.155.122.145) Rating: N/A |
Which DDEC but did it get wet? Water can get in plug no matter how sealed. do you have good grounds, good batts( check cells), But you need to look at the read out of the ECM, both eng off and running. have them check for update items that may not have been done yet.i.e. temp /fan run cycle, eng idle shut down timer. ralph7 | ||
| gabby (171.75.0.170)
Rating: N/A |
I have a MCI with a DD2 and da book says to unconnect the batts,equalizer and take the fuses out of the leads to the d deck when you weld. | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell) (66.81.39.140)
Rating: N/A |
I have a Neoplan w/DDECII and in several places thruout the driver and maintenance manual, there are numerous warnings about completely disconnecting the batteries, inverters, equalizers, engine puter, ATEC puter, and dash harness. It is very possible that they proceeded to weld without doing so and did some damage. But, ? is, how could u ever prove it. I'm sure they would not admit to having done so. I know it takes me about 15 minutes to do mine, so somebody who was going to do 15 minutes worth of welding may have "overlooked" it. I have put off welding my hitch on because I would have to disconnect all this stuff, and I was not real comfortable with messing with those nylon ends at the engine unit. | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (24.196.191.70)
Rating: N/A |
I personally screwed up the brains of my Webasto furnace by welding on the frame without disconnecting the Webasto. I did not do the Webasto installation and was unaware of the notice to disconnect it before welding. As I recall it cost me over $400 for a new box. Richard | ||
| Telestar Emery (142.59.209.189)
Rating: N/A |
It is absolutely imperative that you disconect the battery banks when (electric) welding on your coach! It is also advisable to isolate any appliance (especially those with "electronic memory". This is amust especially if you are useing a DC welder, for it can and probably will, burn out every single light bulb in the unit. Cheers, Emery | ||
| John Rigby (24.174.233.93)
Rating: N/A |
Surly you guys are not telling me you would consider it a welders fault for not checking out the maintainece manual to see what electrical aparatus he needs to disconnect before he welds on a HITCH. Come on now lets get real. Ace did you ever solve your walkway light problem?? John Rigby | ||
| Ace (24.28.41.194) Rating: N/A |
John I didn't have problems with the walk way lights. I have "NO" dash lights behind the gauges! The walk way lights work very well but those I don't need! The question here was I was toying around witht he idea that MAYBE they didn't take precautionary measures BEFORE doing the welding of the hitch they installed causing problems in the ECM which ultimately might cause the JAke and Fast idle to NOT work! I get a code 25 on the DDEC test which by the manual says... "no codes" Go figure! Ace | ||
| Telestar Emery (142.59.209.189)
Rating: N/A |
Hi John, As a lisenced welder, one should know what he is welding, what the conceqences are for not doing it right etc. etc. The reality of it is, you should know your equipment, what it can and cannot do. Would you weld a pannel not knowing that behind it was a 25 or 100 lb propane tank? Same thing goes for the electrical cirquitry! Been there done that I was sued because one of my guys blew a computer in a new Mercedes. Have a Happy. Cheers, Emery | ||
| Marvin (65.35.116.113) Rating: N/A |
. Prevost has a message out about welding on the H3 , and the requirement to disconnect all electronic computers . There is a long list offreaky things happening after welding . There is no warranty after welding and not disconnecting the electronic computers . I can e-mail you the message . . | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (65.160.215.107) Rating: N/A |
Yup, ECMs are touchy feely things, incredibly sensitive to voltage beyond a certain narrow range. A friend of mine worked on a Corvette who's owner stopped to help a stranded motorist. The Vette came in on a hook, the car had died when he connected the jumper cables. Since nowadays a car like a Corvette has a multitude of micro-processors besides the ECM... the whole dash had to be dissassembled (digital gauges and odometer, radio, AC) as well as the power seat and the ECM itself had to be replaced. The repairs cost the owner $5000 Very expensive jump start. Brian | ||
| Ace (24.28.41.194) Rating: N/A |
Marvin Please DO send me the message! You can send it to arsc0007@aol.com Thanks Ace | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell) (66.81.50.142)
Rating: N/A |
I for one, and apparently others also, would hold the welder responsible to know what he can and cannot do. It is very common knowledge today that you take precautions against computer modules in EVERY car, so why would anyone think otherwise for a bus and especially a very modern looking bus. If the welder did it and I could prove it, which Ace probably cannot at this time, I would certainly hold him to the financial torch for it. If he doesn't know better, he should stick to welding wrought iron fences. | ||
| John Rigby (24.174.233.93)
Rating: N/A |
Im not an electonics expert or a certified welder.But it would appear to me that there are all sorts of electronics that are potential problems, in the DDEC system.Just a simple jump to the batteries could, if not connected right( and i,ve done that before ) give you problems. I have leart a good lesson on this post And I,LL leave it to Doctor James to sue the welder | ||
| Sam Sperbeck (204.248.119.254) Rating: N/A |
Hi Telestar Emery, You mention "licensed welder" in your post. I have never heard of a licensed welder, is that a requirement that is unique to your area or am I way behind the times? I am familiar with many classes of certification but not licenses. As far as a welder being responsible for damages, well, that might be hard to prove. Thanks, Sam Sperbeck La Crescent, MN | ||
| Tony (64.215.196.182) Rating: N/A |
I am a certified welder In the state Of Ohio so the way to stop these law suit are don't weld on any Motor Coaches YOU WELDERS out there DON'T and I repeat DON'T WELD ON ANY MOTOR COACHES, unless you make the owner sign a responsibility form that makes him responsible for anything that was not unhooked before you started to weld (there did that take care of the problem ) | ||
| Ace (24.28.41.194) Rating: N/A |
All of you have good comments but for the most part, and as it always seems, you take it WAAYY to far! Nobody said anything about a law suit! Nobody, especially me, really cares who is and isn't certified. It doesn't make a rats ass who is and isn't as long as they know to take precautionary measures before attempting to weld on a bus equipped with electronics. My original question was do any of you think it is possible that this could have been the reason why some of my electronics did not work when the bus was picked up and since bringing it home? Nothing more really needed to be added except for your experience in THIS situation OR your expertise! If asking questions regarding what some of you may have seen or have happen personally will get you these kind of replies, then I'm sorry I asked! I will just take it to the shop and find out why, what and how much! Ace PS Under normal circumstances I would have been a little harsher but owning a Prevost now, one has to control and choose his words carefully! | ||
| Tony (64.215.196.182) Rating: N/A |
PS Under normal circumstances I would have been a little harsher but owning a Prevost now, one has to control and choose his words carefully! Ace Now that you own a Prevost you should not have a problem takeing It to the Prevost site, Grin | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell) (66.81.33.147)
Rating: N/A |
Yes, it did take care of the problem. At least your disclaimer form would inform me (the paying customer) that you were aware of everything involved and took reasonable precautions to prevent unwarranted damage to my coach, which tells me that you are conscientous and probably reliable. At this point in time it is doubtful that Ace could prove the welder at fault, so there is little to no chance of a suit. And, there is probably an equal chance that the electronics may have been faulty at the point in time that Ace bought the coach, well before the welder ever saw touched it. There is also a good chance that his problem is not the DDEC module. So, you need not stow away your stinger and hood, since nobody is out to sue you. But, don't ever try claiming that u didn't know about it, because we now have proof that u did. | ||
| John Rigby (24.174.233.93)
Rating: N/A |
Ace I see the companies coaches that owned your H3 pass on I-I0 DAILY going down from New York--Florida to Mexico City. boy they look in Terrible shape. I hope and pray you did not end up with one from these runs. John | ||
| Emery (142.59.209.189)
Rating: N/A |
Hi Sam, sorry for not getting back to you sooner. In answer to your question, journeyman welders are ticketed (lisenced ). Here in Canada the norm is that you take up an apprenticeship working under the supervision of a journeyman welder. Then there are hours of schooling. After accumulating (X) # of hrs including the hrs of school, you get to write an exam. If you pass you get a ticket (lisence). However Sam, there are many who perform the welding services that are not lisenced. This sometimes creates problems but not allways for the consumer. I know of many darn good welders that are not ticketed. Hope that sheds a little light! Cheers, Emery | ||
| Emery (142.59.209.189)
Rating: N/A |
Well Ace, at least you got the PS part of your post right! Cheers, Emery | ||
| JimC (169.207.90.195)
Rating: N/A |
Ace Years ago when I was running heavy equipment we had a problem with the axles crackign from the pounding on the road. We would call a welding shop to repair them. We found out after numerous alternators burnt out that they were hooking the ground to the front bumper and welding on the rear of the crane. The current flowed through the whole rig and that was what caused the damage. That was before computers! So to answer your question, in my mind there is no doubt the welder COULD have done damage to the electronics. We found that if the ground clamp is located near the work area, the current would only flow from one to the other. Jim | ||
| Bill K. (209.86.78.65) Rating: N/A |
I have heard of bearning burning fast if grounded throught them, A lot of damage can be done, | ||
| Bill 340 (166.153.111.137) Rating: N/A |
Nicely Said ACE, WE like the new YOU, Many post on this AND other boards are meant well but get so far off on another subject, the original question is totaly lost. ABC bus the right choice for NOW,But dont forget to return and update, (nicely) the out come, as some of us are interested in the, final outcome. Bill 340 | ||
| Ace (24.28.41.194) Rating: N/A |
SO you like the NEW me huh? You ain't seen nuttin yet! Ace |