| Author | Message | ||
| John & Barb Tesser (Bigrigger)
Registered Member Username: Bigrigger Post Number: 533 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 96.42.5.35  Rating: N/A |
Well we took the bus right from winter storage and put it on our campsite ready to enjoy 9 days of preachin', prayin', singin' and dinner on the ground at our church camp meeting. What we don't have is a refrigerator that gets cold. The Norcold 3 way that is in the bus was less than 5 years old (according to the PO). When we opened the door I could smell ammonia. I have no idea if this a clue, but i turned it on electric and checked and after 4 hours nothing. "Never fear" says I because i filled the propane tanks, so I switched it over and listened to it ignite and... the propane fire is working fine in the back and some "gurgling" going on but NO COOL. Still smelling ammonia inside the fridge. Do they use ammonia instead of freon in these things? Can I just add some R-134 freon to it? Anyway Barb is not happy and when Barb is not happy... well you get the idea. I went to Walmart and bought a "dorm sized" 4.6 cu ft 110 fridge we can use for this week but I need some info on whats going on with the bus one. Thanks in advance for any info you can give me. John | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 787 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 72.211.145.15  Rating: N/A |
You are the recipient of what is known in the business as COOLANT LEAKAGE... the PO was either ignorant of the issue or a reptile it's your choice. So is getting it repaired. There is a guy who works here in Tucson (and lives in Beverly Hills & has a Lear to fly home each night) who makes a VERY good living fixing 3-way refers... give this thread about 6 hours and all of the HVAC pro's will give you the benefit of their expertise. Likely it is repairable locally...maybe with JB Weld for the short term, I've seen less work in a pinch. (and I look forward to seeing Les work in, a pinch too!) An IceBox served us well for 3 years back in the stone age '60's.. Turn the situation into a learning experience, maybe there is an A/C mechanic who needs the benefit of your company & perspective or one whose kids are hungry.... ....things happen for a reason..! | ||
| Donald P H (Eagle19952)
Registered Member Username: Eagle19952 Post Number: 75 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 98.208.156.101 Rating: N/A |
Do not get, use, or try freon it is not a freon system. freon and flames do not mix. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 1547 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 76.194.80.141  Rating: N/A |
In absorbtion fridges when you smell ammonia , its OVER! Similar to electric stuff when the white smoke departs. "dorm sized" 4.6 cu ft 110 fridge we can use for this week This will operate fine on the power pole , with the noisemaker but regardless of weather the inverter was $150 or $4000 you will usually burn 100AH in 24 , requiring 200AH of batt , just for the fridge. If you boondock much get another propane. FF | ||
| Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 641 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 184.0.13.120  Rating: N/A |
If you smell ammonia it's broke, just as Fred says. You can't add to the ammonia based "soup" inside. It's carefully measured when new & there's no way to tell how much remains. If not just right, the unit won't work. Don't freak out though. This failure is a normal occurrence for these fridges at about the 10 year point. Maybe longer if it's in constant use. You see, the manufacturers build them in such a way that there is a piece of steel tube that corrodes thru at about that time. (For you guys that will argue this, I have been told the same statement by FOUR guys that repair these units!) There are plenty of places that repair these cooling units. Costs about $400 and will give you at least another 10 years. I have had 3 units fixed over the years with great results. | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 1150 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.60.241 Rating: N/A |
You can buy the unit from www.rvfridge.com they are not that hard to replace like Jim said 400 bucks | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 1548 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 76.194.80.141 Rating: N/A |
This failure is a normal occurrence for these fridges at about the 10 year point. Maybe longer if it's in constant use. You see, the manufacturers build them in such a way that there is a piece of steel tube that corrodes thru at about that time. (For you guys that will argue this, I have been told the same statement by FOUR guys that repair these units!) This must be a "modern" upgrade , my boat fridge is a Motorola created before Dometic purchased the co, an estimate is 1960 or older. Still works , mounted out side in a wooden box , and has spent many days at sea , salt water everywhere, with only a thermostat,,,so far. The Servelle (also Dometic) are known for half century lives too. FF | ||
| John & Barb Tesser (Bigrigger)
Registered Member Username: Bigrigger Post Number: 534 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 96.42.5.35 Rating: N/A |
Thanks much guys. I can always count on you for the straight scoop. As a HVAC tech, I make a great truck driver! I will do some research and see about getting it repaired. $400 for 10 more years is not a bad deal if I can find it. Thanks again. John | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1529 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 97.214.80.133  Rating: N/A |
And....if they only repair one point, and another is weak or about to go, you'll be facing the same thing in due (short,possibly) time...  ..BTDT. IMHO, not worth the $$$. Reason we finally went to an apt. size ( 11.5 or so CF) fridge. So far, after several years,so good!...AC only, however. Sometimes it's difficult (hard) to make "adjustments".  RCB | ||
| les marston (Les_marston)
Registered Member Username: Les_marston Post Number: 330 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 68.151.225.213  Rating: N/A |
R.C. I am with you on using the AC fridge. We have used them in both boat and coach for years. 12 volt doesn't get cold, propane gets cold but you can't use it traveling and most of the time doesn't work unless you are parked perfectly level. Sure the AC fridge will pull a lot out of house batteries if you run it on an inverter but most of the time it is on inverter we are traveling so have lots of amps coming from the alternator. AC fridge is easy to install, cheap to replace if it ever does fail, and you can buy them anywhere. No brainer unless you are going to boondock for long periods of time Just my never to be humble opinion | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 1151 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.60.241 Rating: N/A |
Les you are a little off on the propane fridges I run mine all the time on propane traveling everyone I know does but your right they won't get cold on 12V that was designed for cooling around 58 degrees tops leveling is just important on startup after that it doesn't matter.Propane fridges are not that bad I have a old Hadley made in 1970 in the shop works like a champ never had anything done to it in 41 years if you run the propane fridge once a month for 3 or 4 hours they don't give problems sitting for long periods of time will kill one they rust the tubes from the inside (Message edited by luvrbus on June 18, 2011) | ||
| les marston (Les_marston)
Registered Member Username: Les_marston Post Number: 331 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 68.151.225.213 Rating: N/A |
It might be just my bad luck with them but we have had at least 3 of them that all were taken care of and all failed The one that came in our cruise a home house boat would work on 110 but not on propane unless the boat never rocked. We bought a S&S motor home that had a morphy richards fridge... didn't work. Small one in a van conversion... same thing. Glad to hear that someone is able to use them successfully. I guess it is what is best for the use you want to put it to and each to their own. In our 102 we will be using a side by side fridge with a pull out freezer drawer on the bottom. | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 1152 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.60.241 Rating: N/A |
My Eagle was total electric it was ok but it took a lot of generator time to keep the batteries up when you were dry camping with today's fuel prices around 4 bucks 12 bucks a day to run a fridge min while parked with no pole it will get in your pocket kinda like the guys saying their diesel fired heating only uses a 1/2 gal a hour. I had a Aqua Hot averaged 6 gals a day at 30 degree's at the 1/2 gal per hr lol and the bus was foamed with double pane windows good luck | ||
| Mike Eades (Mike4905)
Registered Member Username: Mike4905 Post Number: 209 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 70.126.183.226 Rating: N/A |
I change to a new house size with Ice maker and cold wateer system for my 4905 and it worked with no problems. Just had to put child locks on the doors. Would like to open on the rough roads. | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 1153 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.60.241 Rating: N/A |
I didn't say it was a problem just keep track of the generator time if you are not plug in. I go to Quarzsite to the GM and Eagles Rally it will gag you in the desert everyone running their generators to charge the batteries up every morning me included lol Propane fridges are cheaper to run I have doctor friend that changed his side by side in his $$$$$$ Prevost over to a Miller propane fridge he loves it but the Miller is a high dollar propane unit also you can buy a couple of house type for what he paid. Some people just don't want to spend the bucks for the high dollar inverter and battery bank to use a house type (Message edited by luvrbus on June 18, 2011) (Message edited by luvrbus on June 18, 2011) | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 519 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
Clifford In reading your 1258pm post,do I conclude that you have gone from an aquahot to propane (boiler?) to heat your coach? | ||
| Dal Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 603 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 75.91.197.132  Rating: N/A |
Clifford, I got rid of the 6cf 3 way RV fridge about 8 years ago. I bought a used Kelvinator 11.5cf house fridge at a flea market for $75. It was about 20 years old then, and is still working... first from a really nice Sima 2500watt MSW inverter, and when I let the Lucas Smoke out of it, is now working from a Truckstop special, Coleman 1750 watt inverter. I have 2 AGM 8D house batteries that will run the fridge and our computers, lights, and a couple of room fans for about 30 hours without recharge. Now... to be honest, this IS a basic fridge... only one door, fridge and freezer are enclosed by the same door, freezer has it's own separate inner door. Like the old Fridges from our youth. I also wrapped it with 3/4" Blue Styrofoam even between the coils and the fridge on the back. So far, even with the fridge running from the inverter, which is power pole powered by a converter through the house batteries, it's still working great. The fridge runs about 3 times per day, even when we are going down the road... the house batteries aren't connected to the start batteries. Here's one caveat... WE, (I mean the wife who is a lot smarter than me), freeze milk jugs 1/2 full of water a few days before we travel..... Then put them in the fridge part. They will last for almost a week without the fridge being plugged in, even if the fridge is turned off or unplugged. If our fridge goes out, I'll look for another on CL, in flea markets or in the local classifieds. | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 1155 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.60.241 Rating: N/A |
Yea but Dallas most of these guys are installing 22 to 25 cf fridges in these buses another friend of mine has a Prevost he had built he has a SubZero fridge a 6000.00 fridge then he has drawer freezers a small fortune he has 8-8D Lifeline AGM batteries to the tune of over 4 grand and a 4000 dollar inverter a 21 kw generator that runs all the time at over 1 1/2 gph.Me if I was going with a electric fridge it would be a DC model like the SunFrost or something in way of a Nova/Cool I don't don't do well with large battery banks and inverters lol. Like our good friend Paul he is getting ready for cross country trip he has no battery bank or inverter and has house type fridge how is that going to work plenty of generator time is the only way (Message edited by luvrbus on June 18, 2011) (Message edited by luvrbus on June 18, 2011) | ||
| Dal Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 604 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 75.91.197.132 Rating: N/A |
And there, Clifford, lies the crux of the matter.... In the house we have some godawful 23CF Paykel industrial fridge. Someone paid big bucks for it when the house was built, because it won't fit through the doors without taking the house door and the jack studs off. It works great, keeps stuff cold, and doesn't use much power.. Except.... Our 11.5 in the bus holds everything it does, plus a little more. They put the insulation on the inside of the house fridge, so it takes out a lot of usable space. Sometimes size doesn't mean better or worse. I'd like to find a 28" deep fridge that I can get through my door. We are limited, because I have cracked windshields and there are no others to be found, so bringing one in through the front is pretty much out of the question. | ||
| John & Barb Tesser (Bigrigger)
Registered Member Username: Bigrigger Post Number: 535 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 96.42.5.35 Rating: N/A |
Wow,sure a lot of differing ideas here. The way we use our bus to camp in State/Federal forest areas (no electric) and bluegrass festivals (mostly no electric and generator restrictions) I will have to have one the works on propane. We had a Dometric in our s and s which worked great on propane "going down the road" as did this one before it decided to give us ammoinia inhalation therapy. I will either have to fix this one or replace it with similar. RC I get your point about fixing it only to have it go bad somewhere else. I guess thats one of the "crap shoots" of repairing anything (old busses included) Thanks again guys, John | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1334 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 72.161.172.215  Rating: N/A |
Les, Always used both my propane friges underway and didn't know I couldn't!! Joking aside, the only times the one in my 4104 failed was during a very high wind or rain or both, but it immediately relighted when conditions improved. The flame is not hard to blow out under the right conditions but those are rare. | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1530 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 97.224.10.153 Rating: N/A |
Interesting thread here...lots of ways of skinnin' cats... Perhaps the new units are much better than a few years ago. Warranties may also be improved. I guess I am with Luvr and others on the idea of buying a couple ..or three...new household units for the price of just one RV type. Also, must say that until I had the batteries, combiner, charger thing figured out, I was using much more generator time...now a couple of hours in the am and again in the evening; but then, TV and other things come into play. In the end, I agree with others that it is how one uses the coach...sitting..traveling, or whatever. As FF says..."do it your way". ...and best wishes! RCB | ||
| les marston (Les_marston)
Registered Member Username: Les_marston Post Number: 332 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 68.151.225.213 Rating: N/A |
I must be bit by the fridge demon. I tried a lot of things to make the stupid things work and finally gave up on them... Maybe I have to re think my position on propane fridges...... NOPE still don't trust them to work when I need them to | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1532 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 97.224.10.153 Rating: N/A |
Have to agree, Les; but then perhaps you and I just had "bad" experience. I do use propane on the stove/oven... (and that's all!!!)Fuill the tank about 1 time a year. RCB | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 1156 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.60.241 Rating: N/A |
I just never had problems with one so I can't knock the propane fridges had a electrical board go out on one but they replaced it free. My wife sold her Coachmen camper van and the fridge had been in service for 21 years when she sold it never gave us a problem plugged in all the time a house type would be the way to go but camping naw my side by side 21cf wasn't that great and the pure sine inverter to run the fridge would use about a 10th of the power it produced to run the inverter (Message edited by luvrbus on June 19, 2011) (Message edited by luvrbus on June 19, 2011) | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 1551 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 76.194.80.141 Rating: N/A |
Propane fridges built since 1990 or so do not have to be as level as the older units. The new rule is if you don't roll out of bed , its fine. Every propane fridge I have owned has been used underway , just remember to turn it off in a gasoline station. Motion , rocking in a boat , or bouncing down the road in a camper helps the units circulate , and most work BETTER with motion. The old boat units that needed to be level were sometimes mounted in gymbols , so the unit would be level while the boat sailed on her ear. FF | ||
| Brice Abell (Babell2)
Registered Member Username: Babell2 Post Number: 22 Registered: 12-2010 Posted From: 98.92.64.57  Rating: N/A |
My only experience with a propaine or 3 way was in a S&S my father had. Along with the dependability issues the other issue I see is the extra heat and venting of the heat from the unit. I would rather put up with the 110 loads on a battery system and the light amount of extra heat from the coils than getting the proper venting along the back of the unit for a absorbsion unit to cool correctly. Brice | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1336 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 173.202.26.182 Rating: N/A |
Propane actually seems to cool better than AC for some reason? The only level issue for propane is side to side for the frige (usually fore and aft for the bus), the other direction has little to do with it. If you look at the Z shaped return coil behind the frige you can see the reason. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 1555 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 76.214.46.131 Rating: N/A |
Propane actually seems to cool better than AC for some reason? Propane can produce far more BTU than the tiny AC or DC heating eliments. No question on total energy use a modern Danfloss or similar DC setup with a speed control brain (about $700 -$900) for the parts , you provide the box is more "efficient". But the question is living with it. 20-30 days in the woods , $14. for a 20# refill. The same 30 days would require many hours of noisemaker , many pounds of batteries a SOC meter and probably $14.00 in diesel. What is the living silent worth to you? IT is worth a bunch if you are camped with other folks that have to live with your noise and stench in the woods. FF | ||
| David Dulmage (Daved)
Registered Member Username: Daved Post Number: 283 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 204.101.119.243  Rating: N/A |
The usual repair is to replace the cooling unit, so it's not a matter of repairing one spot with the chance of a leak somewhere else. I had one replaced some time ago. I left it off at the shop that repaired it in the morning and picked it up that afternoon. I never had any more problems with it. $400.00 seems like a good deal, compared to the cost of a new refrigerator. FWIW Dave D | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1534 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.218.155.26 Rating: N/A |
Yes if the unit is replaced...but if not, watch out. BTDT. ...and I notice they are no longer in business. What goes 'round, comes 'round. RCB |