| Author | Message | ||
| Laryn Christley (Barn_owl)
Registered Member Username: Barn_owl Post Number: 705 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 108.15.199.165  Rating: N/A |
I am adding an additional cooler to my transmission. It already has the oil/water cooler, but like some others have done, I am going to add a oil/air cooler in series. This will add an extra layer of protection by removing some of the heat load from the engine cooling system. I purchased a Hayden 1290 off Ebay and am going to mount it in front of the radiator. My question is this: I need to run what will be lengthly hoses from the transmission side to the other, can I use black iron pipe to run this hot but low pressure oil? I am thinking two 6' lengths of pipe, and my thinking is that it will be 12' additional feet that will also contribute something to cooling the oil. I will have hoses made to make the twist and turns required to connect everything together. What are your thoughts? I will post this to both boards to catch the non-crossovers. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 1550 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 76.194.80.141  Rating: N/A |
IF the pipe is in a return , basically low pressure , why not? IF it is at 1500 or 3000lbs , pipe wont cut it. FF | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member Username: Dmd Post Number: 599 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 24.46.196.121  Rating: N/A |
what size pipe are you thinking? I am sure it would work but not sure if its a great idea. You shouldent have any rust issue from the pipe if its full all the time but what about if it drains back at shutdown. any moisture in the pipe as in condensation could be an issue. I have seen a mixture of steel tubing and hoses in heavy equipment. the wieght as compared to hose might give me pause. The pipe i get for work can be dirty inside and if you cut and thread it make sure you get all the chips out. Let us know what you go with and how it works. | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 1432 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.55.178.71  Rating: N/A |
Barn Owl I would check and see about the hoses at a transmission shop for durability and compare the two. On cars and trucks,the hoses work off the return line and pressure is not an issue. You will have to use some hoses on the ends anyway. Just thinking out loud LOL gomer | ||
| larry currier (Larryc)
Registered Member Username: Larryc Post Number: 356 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 207.200.116.13 Rating: N/A |
Hard to beat steel braided hydraulic hose. It was made for the job. Most all truck shops can make your lengths. Last one I sold was $4o for 3 feet of #14 with crimp fittings. Aeroquip would be my next choice, costs about the same. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1335 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 173.202.26.182  Rating: N/A |
Just be sure to allow for vibration if you decide on iron pipe. Using hoses for turns should take care of it. The PO used copper for my 4107 air/oil cooling lines which is better for cooling than iron. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 2093 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.71.157  Rating: N/A |
Personally, I wouldn't fool with the pipe for the little savings; also has the potential of fatigue leaks from vibration down the road. I, myself am a fan or reusable fittings. Also, don't pay extra for hose that is way over pressure rated for the job. | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 792 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 72.211.145.15  Rating: N/A |
My .02 cents worth.. Steel braid/Aeroquip for the high pressure side & rubber Tranny hose for the return.... But there is H/P steel line, like brake line (Lgr Dia) available in 6 ft. stock lengths which is cheaper than a long run of Braided/Aeroquip and just as reliable & long life-d.... coat it with bed liner for insurance ! | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1533 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 97.214.178.136  Rating: N/A |
"6ft. stock lengths"...also can be cut size,AIR, depending perhaps on supplier. Bed liner???? Can't think of why; enlighten me. Overkill? Doubt, under any circumstance I'd do that....perhaps "undercoating"..but then again...why? FWIW RCB | ||
| Laryn Christley (Barn_owl)
Registered Member Username: Barn_owl Post Number: 706 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 108.15.199.165 Rating: N/A |
I have talked to two hose shops, and they don't seem to have much of a selection for hose that can hold up to oil and temps around 250 degrees. What they do have is expensive, and some of the fittings are eyepopping even with my awesome discount. Can anyone be more specific on what would work for the low pressure return? (Message edited by barn owl on June 20, 2011) | ||
| Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member Username: Bill_gerrie Post Number: 505 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 216.198.139.38  Rating: N/A |
Laryn I did exactly what you are going to do only I mounted the cooler on the engine side of the rad so I didn't add heat to the rad. I used #20 hydraulic hose from Areoquip and their reusable fittings. I remember it not being cheap ($300) but easy to work with. I ran the hoses behind the rear bumper with brackets to hold them away from heat sources. I also used an air operated valve to stop the return of all the extra oil to the transmission when the engine stops. Not sure if that was necessary but did it anyway. Worked well now for the last 5 years. I used an oversize cooler (Hayden 2305) as it is only 60% efficient in that location. Bill | ||
| Brian Evans (Bevans6)
Registered Member Username: Bevans6 Post Number: 40 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 65.92.49.192 Rating: N/A |
this is what I would use, I use this system for my race car oil systems. Light, easy to assemble, essentially fool-proof and I have never had a failure. I run up to 120 PSI (cold pressure) and 250 degrees and 60 psi routinely. http://www.aeroquip.cc/fbv0400fc332-04aeroquipsocketlesspush-onhosehightempfc332-4.aspx Brian | ||
| Mel La Plante (Mel_4104)
Registered Member Username: Mel_4104 Post Number: 170 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.183.67.135 Rating: N/A |
you have me wondering why would you put anything in front of your rad as you need all the air flow you can get for cooling, the heat from the cooler will add heat to the rad and restrict air flow through it not a good idea, next if all the tranny coolers used by trucks and buses use hyd. hose not pipe due to flexability and presure why would you try to go for pipe. 3/4 high presure pipe is not easy to work with and crimps real quick. | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 1435 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.55.178.71 Rating: N/A |
Ok problem is solved!! Get the cooler and install a fan on it with a t-stat and put it whever is easiest. Gomer | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1337 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 173.202.19.248 Rating: N/A |
Bed liner on metal tubing, what are you thinking, Jack? He wants to cool the fluid, he sure doesn't want to insulate the lines!! I once bought some welded ss brake lines that were like butter to bend, loved that stuff. The welded tubing is much better than extruded because the wall thickness is consistent. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 2095 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.71.157 Rating: N/A |
you could cut a nice hole on the transmission door, mount the cooler with an automotive electric fan; even set up a thermostat for it. The savings in hose length would pay for the electric fan. Get one that is reversible so you can see which direction works best. | ||
| Laryn Christley (Barn_owl)
Registered Member Username: Barn_owl Post Number: 707 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 153.2.247.30 Rating: N/A |
Mounting a Hayden 1290 anywhere other than the front of the radiator is not possible because of its size. After talking with the Hayden engineers it is industry standard to put it in front of the radiator where you see an overall beneficial gain to the system. Part of the problem with the oil/water cooler is that it is undersized for long periods of excessive heat. Climbing 12k peaks at 8 to 12% grades in the Rockies for mile after endless mile generates more heat than it can shed without stopping, causing the tranny temps to rise higher than I would like to see. I am lucky that I have one of the largest radiators and fan combinations that you can reasonably fit into a 4106. Engine overheating has not been a problem although I have felt I cut it close several times. At the time I had a badly kinked upper radiator hose but that got fixed. I just don't want to roast what is now $130 plus worth of transmission fluid every time I feel like I have to travel to the highest peak I can find with those insanely steep endless grades. | ||
| Laryn Christley (Barn_owl)
Registered Member Username: Barn_owl Post Number: 708 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 153.2.247.32 Rating: N/A |
Wow Bill! That 2305 makes my 1290 look small! That’s a beast! That setup must have added several gallons capacity to your system in oil alone. In the end I think if front or back it becomes a wash. The oil has a chance to remove engine heat at the oil/water cooler if it is colder. Either way is much better than not having anything in my opinion. (Message edited by barn owl on June 20, 2011) | ||
| Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member Username: Bill_gerrie Post Number: 506 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 216.198.139.38 Rating: N/A |
Laryn The 2305 is a big cooler but for what I paid it was what I needed. With putting it after the rad I needed one larger then normal due to the loss of effiency. Also the large amount of extra oil was my reason to put in an air operated valve that stops the oil flow when the engine was turned off. Maybe I should have tried to operate without the valve for what it cost but I didn't want to have oil everywhere. If I change the rad later I may put the cooler in front of the rad but for now I run too hot for the engine to have more heat added in front of the rad. I am looking into a larger rad (maybe a dimpled tube type) but will have to make the upper and lower tanks bigger first. Always something to play with. Bill |