| Author | Message | ||
| Roy Mealer (Road_dawg)
Registered Member Username: Road_dawg Post Number: 3 Registered: 4-2011 Posted From: 72.178.195.93 Rating: N/A |
Hey guys what would you think the towing capacity is for a model "05 Eagle? I have a very strong hitch coming off the frame, but never really thought about limits....any input is welcomed...thanks | ||
| Bill 340 (Bill_340)
Registered Member Username: Bill_340 Post Number: 140 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.204.156.6  Rating: N/A |
we towed a 5500 lb vehicle everywhere for years, towed great,Behind our old 05 | ||
| Roy Mealer (Road_dawg)
Registered Member Username: Road_dawg Post Number: 5 Registered: 4-2011 Posted From: 72.178.195.93  Rating: N/A |
I'm thinking about a very large heavy trailer.... | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1817 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.195.124.20  Rating: N/A |
Roy - "I'm thinking about a very large heavy trailer..." Buses generally are not designed for heavy tongue loads. Flat towing a 5000# toad is much different stress on the coach chassis than the instantaneous dynamic loads induced by the tongue weight of a 5000# trailer. One of these would be a wise investment if you wish to pursue this project: http://www.trailertoad.com/ FWIW & HTH. . .  | ||
| Tom Christman (Tchristman)
Registered Member Username: Tchristman Post Number: 302 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 66.218.33.156 Rating: N/A |
Also-do you have an Allison or manual transmission. If you only have a 4spd manual, startability with the trailer is to be a concern. Good Luck, TomC | ||
| Jim Shepherd (Rv_safetyman)
Registered Member Username: Rv_safetyman Post Number: 333 Registered: 1-2004 Posted From: 75.220.253.252 Rating: N/A |
This subject comes up periodically on both of the major boards. I tried to reply to each thread with a lot of detail about my thoughts. That got to be a real pain, so I created a page on my website with my thoughts: http://www.rvsafetysystems.com/Trailer%20Towing.htm The big issue with Eagles (as well as other buses) is the corrosion of the support tubing/structure that constitutes the engine cradle/support system. Jim | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 124 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.120.170 Rating: N/A |
There are many ways to beef up the support system for towing, my eagle wasn't consumed by corosion as many are but I still had support added even tho I don't tow a trailer, I flat tow a vehicle, my hitch is made from 5 inch flat bar stock 3/4 inch thick with anchors both front and back to hold the receiver tube securely, the frame is reinforced and gusseted back beyond where the hitch mounts and is far stronger than my needs require. My concerns with a heavy trailer would be the porposing action that sometimes happens with any trailer and road conditions and the effects of it over time as a stressor. I guess as a starting point the first thing would be to have the frame carefully examined to determine its condition, after that you would have a better idea of what is needed, keep in mind that the trailer will create a cantilever action that continues far forward of the engine cradle and that will have to also be taken into concideration, I know of many bus owners that are pulling heavy trailers, what I don't know is whether they are doing it safely or not, the idea of a 20,30 or 40 year old bus being eaten by rust is safely assumed by many and may be the case but not always each bus and make of bus has it's own variables that only a careful examination of that particular bus can determine the condition or needs required to haul what you want to haul. | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 818 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 72.211.145.15  Rating: N/A |
Ya know Cody, I am surprised that the BossNut hasn't weighed in on this... if memory serves, he has a rather large trailer & seeing as how it is painted to match the coach.... one can assume he pulls it with said coach... eh? I know from personal experience that dragging a 28-ft. trailer behind a Dually-Crew Cab is more than a tiresome experience & after 8 years of doing it every summer every w/e that i'd never opt for that again. A Toad is an entirely different experience but a decent sized trailer is OUT OUT OUT...never again. | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 125 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.120.170 Rating: N/A |
We know many people in the music industry that tow what I would call big trailers full of equipment and goodies, I would find that tiring after a while and many of those buses are older and a combination of eagles, prevos, GM's etc. I believe it can be done safely with proper preparation and a close review of the frame and support structure of the particular bus. Most larger trailers have tandom and sometimes even triple axles that do cut down on the tongue weight and porposing and with careful loading to balance the load as much as possible along with a proper support structure in the bus, the engine and tranny along with the driving conditions that a person would expect are all important conciderations, a 4 speed in a hilly area with a 6v71 and a heavy trailer wouldn't be my idea of fun after a while but I've seen it done and continue to see it done on a regular basis, but like I said, whether they are doing it safely or not is something I couldn't address without having personal knowledge of the particular bus involved, all I can speak to is what I've done and how I've done it. (Message edited by cody on June 28, 2011) | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 1237 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 66.87.107.204  Rating: |
You guys worry way to much. Do an inspection if your frame and if its not ready to fall out, hook it up and go! Geeze, were nit talking paper here and if your bus has a frame like paper, it doesn't belong on the road in the first place let alone pulling a trailer. If its safe enough for you to sit your ass in and drive 70 plus mph, out should be safe enough to poul a trailer or a car/truck! If its not, DONT PUT ANY OF IT ON THE ROAD! Use some common sense! | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 821 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 72.211.145.15 Rating: N/A |
Can I borrow someone's decoder ring.... | ||
| Dal Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 620 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 75.91.199.111  Rating: N/A |
Ace... I voted for you cause we don't get a "Like" button! | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 1238 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 66.87.106.239 Rating: |
Jack, you dont need a decoder ring to understand the post. Judy use common sense. If you dont have any, then why reply? Dallas, I knew you would understand! You own a bus! Its the wannabees that post the stupid crap and they probably never pulled pork let alone a trailer let alone DRIVE a bus! | ||
| Dal Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 621 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 75.91.199.111 Rating: |
Yup, watch the NASCAR guys in their fancy Prevosts hauling around a 40' triple and quad axle trailer.... Those aren't light little car haulers. I've worked on those axles when they burn a bearing or when they trash a brake magnet that eats a drum. Those are Dexter 8,000 and 9,000 pound axles, jacking one up is a real joy, you actually have to use two 10-20 ton jacks to get a tire off the ground, (on the side of the road, putting a single jack under a single axle is nigh on impossible). If you try using one jack, the whole suspension comes up and leaves the one tire on the ground. Those trailers have parts, pieces, engines, transmissions, tools and all manner of stripper poles, (oops, sorry, that was the GGW bus!). And, yes, I did break a bus in half, (kinda), hauling an 8K lb trailer... that was my fault and at the time it was the only expedient possible. | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 822 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 72.211.145.15 Rating: N/A |
"Judy use some common sense"... ... and "she" did an efficient job of making my point  Sometimes I get the feeling that Norm Crosby is still alive & on this forum. (Message edited by Jack_fids on June 30, 2011) | ||
| Jim Shepherd (Rv_safetyman)
Registered Member Username: Rv_safetyman Post Number: 334 Registered: 1-2004 Posted From: 72.171.0.145 Rating: N/A |
OK folks I normally let these things go, but this one is really bothering me. The OP asked about towing a big trailer (we don't know how big) behind an Eagle bus that is over 30 years old. He states that it has a HD hitch (whatever that is). I offered my typical "be careful and here is what you need to consider" and then the "real experts" chime in and say just use common sense. What the h&*$ does that mean???? Then the experts site modern Prevosts that haul big trailers. Prevost, in recent years, has designed their coaches to be capable of hauling big trailers. That is a far cry from a 30+ year old bus that was **NEVER** designed to haul a big trailer. Can he do it? Maybe. If the owner really knows how to check the tubing supporting the engine (I will guarantee that the tubing is compromised by years of fluctuating loading and rusting), then maybe he can try it. I never say that you can't haul big trailers with a bus, but I offer some pretty well thought out concerns. Much different approach than a quick sentence that says use common sense. Folks, we are talking about safety here. What if the frame fails in mode that lets the trailer break away from the bus, crosses into the other lane and wipes out an innocent family? I have sited real instances of frame/hitch failures. This is not just some old fart engineer crying out that the sky is falling. Every day we have new folks joining our ranks who do not have a clue and ask honest questions. That was the case here. He needs to be made aware that there are potential issues. I guess some folks would say that he got a balanced answer. I am just not comfortable that the "go for it" group has presented information that relates to the OP bus. Jim | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 1239 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 66.87.106.239 Rating: N/A |
You know jim, I always appreciate your replies but come on, why would you dis mine and others suggestions of using good ole common sense. That would cover an array of issues including inspecting your OWN bus to see if its strong enough to pull a trailer. I mean, what your asking basically is for EVERY person that wants to do something structural regarding the frame like pulling a trailer, is to have the frame magnafluxed for OLD failures that can't be seen. Whether an old 30 yr old relic or a modern prevost, its all man made and open to failure. How does anyone know until the unforseen obvious happens? It can happen to you, me or anyone at anytime, but the bottom line still reverts back to common sense. Yea I know your an engineer and most engineers I know have very little if any that they use. They're usually book smart! Everything must be done by the book. This brings to mind a scenario in my field. The owner of a company I was doing work for was the same way. He studied every flooring journal known to man. He was what I call book smart. He was never on the installing end or out in the field on the job but he was first one there to tell you how to do the job. A new very expensive product came out and yours truly was the lucky one to install it. Keep in mind, I've never seen it or heard of it. I got out on the job and after studying the situation, I opted to use common sense and do the job how I thought it should be done. The owner asked, after it was all done, how it went and if I did such and such and after telling him, no, I opted to do it my way, he argued that it couldn't be done that way. Remember, he said it couldn't be done although it was ALREADY DONE! Being the worry wart he was, he called the mill that made the stuff and after his explanation of the instal they asked who the installer was because the process I used ultimately changed the way the mill delivered instructions. They even changed the videos they sent out to the various dealers because my method. So you see even in every day life something as small as this and someone as non important as me can make changes using pure ole common sense. Am I an expert on metal, frames, hitches, tongue weight, etc.? Nope, far from it but, I do have common sense and I know what I can pull and can't pull with MY bus safely. The same thing everyone that owns a bus should practice. Its no different knowing how fast you can travel down the highway. Just because your bus CAN do 100 doesn't mean your going to. Why? Common sense! I could go on and on but you get my point, then again, maybe not! | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 1167 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.60.241 Rating: N/A |
The new Prevost have a 20,000lb towing capacity with 2000 lbs tongue weight with a equalizer hitch check one of those babies out lot of engineering went into that not wham bam thank you mam and fwiw Prevost never had a factory hitch till around 1990 give or take a year or so best I recall. The MCI J 4500 is 10,000 lbs towing not that it won't tow more MCI just doesn't want the weight on their buses.I seen some nice installs on hitches by owners then I have seen some that would scare me to death towing any thing (Message edited by luvrbus on June 30, 2011) | ||
| les marston (Les_marston)
Registered Member Username: Les_marston Post Number: 346 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 68.151.225.213  Rating: N/A |
Any rating for towing with a MCI 102 D3? We want to tow a 16X8 foot enclosed trailer with our smart car in it (about 1800 pounds) and some wood working tools Total weight about 6000 lbs (my best guess). I don't know if the tow buddy would be acceptable in places like B.C. that don't allow two trailers behind a non commercial vehicle. I see Greyhound pulling freight trailers with 102s. Are they modified in some way to pull these rather heavy looking trailers? | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 1168 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.60.241 Rating: N/A |
I don't know the rating of the 102 Les I do know some came with factory hitches as I have bought a few take off from the tour operators they were class 3 10,000 with tongue weight 500 lbs . I am sure they would handle that or it would not have had the hitch from MCI forgot to mention they had a pull strap that ran from the hitch to some place on the tag framing I got the strap but never knew where or what it attached to (Message edited by luvrbus on June 30, 2011) | ||
| Jim Shepherd (Rv_safetyman)
Registered Member Username: Rv_safetyman Post Number: 335 Registered: 1-2004 Posted From: 72.171.0.145 Rating: |
Ace,first, an apology. I am having a bad morning and really kind of dumped on you and Dallas. Not much of my thought come out of classic engineering textbooks. They come from hands on, real world experience. What got me started on this whole soap box approach was when I saw some pictures of Gary LaBombard's engine compartment tubing. I still have a piece of that tubing that Gary autographed for me. The tubing had holes in it!!! I am quite sure that Eagle and others over-engineered their engine support system by a pretty good margin. However, the years can take their toll. I think Gary's engine support structure was a worse case scenario, but it really got me to thinking. It was holding up the engine (my guess is barely). If he had put a big tongue weight on it, and drove it down some of our terrible road, I am quite confident he would have had a serious frame failure. BTW, I am more concerned about dynamic loading than I am static loading. With our road getting worse every year, that is a big deal. When I started working on my Eagle, I was blown away by how much the tubing in the engine compartment had been corroded. My bus was not all that bad from a rust standpoint (better than many Eagles). But as I began double tubing all of the supports, I often blew through the old tubing with the MIG welder - sometimes like it was almost paper thin. It looked fine from the outside. I spent a lot of time on my engine compartment structure and feel pretty good about it's integrity. That said, we all know that there are some pretty careless builders who either cut corners or don't understand the issues. You do not need to use fancy equipment to test the engine support tubing. A simple ice pick and hammer or 1/8 inch drill can give you an idea of the tubing wall thickness. To do that you hit the ice pick or drill the tube up high in the structure and then repeat that process at the engine rail level. I think most folks would be amazed at how much easier it is to penetrate the tubing at engine rail level. The other big problem is that the safety chains that retain the trailer are usually attached to the same structure and they can be compromised as well I fully understand that folks get away with hauling big trailers behind older buses. I just want to make sure that folks understand that there can be issues. Jim | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 1169 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.60.241 Rating: N/A |
Jim, if he doesn't tie the upper frame into the lower frame on a Eagle with a large trailer he will have problems, that is what we had to do to Dick's because of the heavy stacker he tows he lost one side it dropped down and also did that on Doyles 05 because of the 32 ft trailer he pulls.Looking at hitches on these GM buses those would scare me with any kind of tongue weight but they do alright for towing a toad I guess 1000's of GM's on the road good luck (Message edited by luvrbus on June 30, 2011) | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 1240 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 66.87.106.239 Rating: N/A |
Jim, I understand the bad day situation, we all have them. As for using Gary and his rust relic as an example would not be a good thing in my opinion. Obviously his bus had a lot of rot and should never hit the road under any circumstances and I ahem, applaude him for not endangering the public by doing so. This is where I credit him again, ahem, with common sense. Where I dont is when he actually bought it. Goes to show that he DID learn something from these boards other than how to type. Anyway, shows good reason for common sense. People know down deep if what they are about to do is safe or not end if not, they come here. I think that is why a lot of these post go on and on without ever helping the op. Way too much technical advice for the average person. (Message edited by Ace on June 30, 2011) | ||
| les marston (Les_marston)
Registered Member Username: Les_marston Post Number: 347 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 68.151.225.213 Rating: N/A |
Fair enough. I suspect that if they came with a hitch capable of a 10 k lb. they (MCI) must have intended them to be able to pull somewhat near to that load. By any chance do you still have any of the hitches that you had and can you tell me how they attached to the cradle? I have to assume that the cradle is heat treated and not to be welded to or drilled. Thanks Les | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 524 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
Les Go and see Trevor at the Hound garage and ask him to show you how they are doing it. At one time Mci had the details of their bagage trailer hitch on their website apparently, but it was removed for obvious reasons, lawsuits being one of them. Joe. | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 1453 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 76.4.118.153  Rating: |
SOLUTION!! Do it like UPS does! Four down and all you do is pull. The next problem is stopping? Not! You already have brakes on the coach, all you do is wire in a controller. YEAH FOR ME!!! Gomer | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 824 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 72.211.145.15 Rating: N/A |
“Common sense is not so common.” Voltaire quote Common Sense is the knowledge that is so familiar to one person that they assume everybody knows it as well. I assume that we ALL know the definition of ASSUME but I'd bet that I am wrong. Anyway, it's Judy nice that there was some resolve finally ... | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1821 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.195.124.20 Rating: N/A |
Les - "I don't know if the tow buddy would be acceptable in places like B.C. that don't allow two trailers behind a non commercial vehicle." Now that is an interesting question! More research is needed! Who's in BC that would be willing to follow up? FWIW & HTH. . . | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 1241 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 66.87.104.151 Rating: N/A |
Jack not sure who your trying to impress with your so called comedy but it isn't me so quit trying to humor us. It gets old! And for your information, the "judy" was a typo for "just". Using a new htc evo 3d phone for almost everything and still learning. The typo was done using "swype" on the keyboard. If you knew anything other than comedy, you would understand. | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1545 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 97.213.99.104  Rating: N/A |
......sigh!.... Thanx, Ace. RCB | ||
| larry currier (Larryc)
Registered Member Username: Larryc Post Number: 358 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 207.200.116.13 Rating: N/A |
I have a pintle hitch on the back of my Eagle 20 for all the toys with commercial trailer. It's stronger than the ones we use on over the road doubles and triples because I shop built it with bigger tubing braces than I use on the tripple sets. The Model 20 was a little harder than the one I did on my 05 and the 05 is easier to get strong. Ace, I looked for you in the infield at the track, how about that finish! Really this 2 car deal looks pretty bad or sad or something, but crashes are pretty cool unless it's you crashing. I can't forget walking down the track and counting 13 poles and all the fence the day Jeff Bodine died. (They revived him). It is a sad thing that we can't run 250 around there and keep the cars out of the grand stands. The track is big enough... I'll drive,lets go. | ||
| Paul Lawry (Dreamscape)
Registered Member Username: Dreamscape Post Number: 730 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 74.2.251.162  Rating: N/A |
Sooooo...What is the answer to the OP's question? |
