| Author | Message | ||
| John Rigby (66.25.227.151)
Rating: N/A |
Is it possible to keep my 671 to cool? As i am changing my old 4 row radiator to a new 7 row ( 3 more rows,and they look the same size so should cool a lot better.) also adding RDW,S new fan shroud design, where the fan sits inside the shroud.Also going to add the 1.5" spoiler just before the radiator. All this should increase my cooling by 300%.Does anyone think this will keep the engine to cool or present a problem?? John | ||
| Phil Dumpster (24.16.243.37) Rating: N/A |
As long as your thermostat(s) is/are working properly, there shouldn't be any problems. | ||
| Doug (68.83.22.144) Rating: N/A |
may need to install shutters | ||
| mel4104 (208.181.100.61) Rating: N/A |
John you stated the the new fan sits inside the new shroud, you might like to rethink that as we always keep part of the fan out of the shroud to give better cooling, but seems like you are doing a great job. also the thermostats are for regulating the tempature of the engine not the temp, of the coolant in the rad. m | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905) (69.162.21.219)
Rating: N/A |
WILL need to install shutters esp. in cool weather or engine will run too cool except on grades | ||
| TWO DOGS (65.177.145.6) Rating: N/A |
look at the bigtrucks...in the winter they use "winterfronts"....a piece of naugahide around the radiator,with a zipper down the middle ,for adjustment....the only way ya' can get the heater inside to blow warm air...adjust the zipper so the engine runs 180....that's where a diesel runs best..... TWO DOGS | ||
| Jimmci9 (209.240.205.68) Rating: N/A |
volvo white/gm did a study on the "winter fronts" on the radiators... they recommend not to use them....why?/ because of the "shock load" of the available air coming thru the radiator.... seems their thinking is that the fan blade is unloaded when its' behind the cover, then hits more solid air in the uncovered part... they had fatigue tests to substantiate thier results... me??? i worked for volvo at the time, so i believe it... i'd look into a fan clutch if possible.... | ||
| TWO DOGS (63.185.97.181) Rating: N/A |
I guess half a million truckers must be wrong | ||
| Jimmci9 (209.240.205.68) Rating: N/A |
i didnt say that they were wrong 2dogs....i only said that the fan hits a "loaded " wave of air, on only part of the blade, not the entire blade....and that causes fatigue....if you could see the films that were made, using a strobe light to "freeze" film frames.... it looks scary.....the blades were really flexing when it hit "free air".... besides most "modern" trucks have a fan clutch... it freewheels lots of the time..... | ||
| FAST FRED (63.234.20.35) Rating: N/A |
"I guess half a million truckers must be wrong" Wouldn't be the first time, Look how many still idle their OWN! rigs while taking on fuel, even tho its against the law in 25 or 30 states. FAST FRED PS, a "Mousetrap" is the name for a clutch pedal assist mechanism on some GM coaches. YOU have it confused with the Emergency engine stop flap on top of the blower. FF | ||
| Phil Dumpster (24.16.243.37) Rating: N/A |
On a truck the radiator takes air in from the front. On most rear engine busses air is taken in from the side(s). With a fan clutch, you don't need shutters or any kind of winterfront. Without a fan clutch, get a fan clutch. Truckers are often wrong about a lot of things. I deal with way too many who think they know everything. I've driven lots of trucks and busses in sub-freezing weather, and I have never had to use anything to block airflow through the radiator. The only drivers manual I've seen that had winterfront advice in it was for an old Freightliner cabover. | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior) (64.229.212.211)
Rating: N/A |
Hello all. Perhaps it might be good for relations if we define what "running in the cold" means. Above, oh, 5 to 10 degrees F, well, carry on, as long as you've got a half decent antifreeze mixture, and the vehicle is being run. But once you start messing around down to the 0 and below, beware.... On a truck, the blast of highway speed fridgid air is capable of removing ALL the heat from the coolant, which will drop the radiator temp to match the ambient air temp. If that exceeds the antifreeze protection, the rad will begin to freeze in the middle. It is not unusual to be operating at times in minus 40 and below in the northern states and Canadian prairies. How many have that much antifreeze? And most of the trucks now employ a symetrical rad cover, with the centre opening out to the four corners to prevent the fan imbalance. On a coach, we have the benefit of not exposing the radiator to the full might of the fridgid highway airflow, so we can exist without added on covering. However, on a stock coach, you'll get little to no heat for the interior if the shutters/damper doors are not functioning, and be unable to reach operating temps operating on the flat. The returning coolant to the engine is just so cold under these extreme conditions, that the thermostat doesn't spend much time open continuously, there is little hot coolant entering the radiator, the heat of which is quickly lost to the airflow through the fan forced extremely cold air, below freezing coolant is returned to the engine, which can soak up a great deal of engine heat, thermostat doesn't stay open long....and the temp gauge doesn't make it to running temp. On a bus with shutters, they spend a great deal of time closed under these conditions, blocking the movement of air through the radiator, keeping more heat in the returning coolant. The goal is to have the thermostats running open to some degree most of the time, not closing. Shutters are also a benefit at warmer temperatures. They help a lightly loaded or idling bus maintain coolant temperature at all air temps. By lightly loaded, I mean operating around town, secondary roads, sitting at the lights, etc. Some coaches enjoy some form of speed control for the rad fan, some do not. If you can thermostatically control the fan speed, then the coach will be able to operate at temp in cooler weather without shutters. Usually the fan speed and the shutters worked in tandem in stock set-ups. I know, depending on vintage and options, GM had temp controlled hydraulic fan clutches. MCI do not have any fan control until you get into the rear mounted rads and newer 4 strokes, 102D and beyond. An engine that runs below operating temp uses more fuel, wears more, contaminates the oil quicker, may burn more oil, won't evaporate accumulated crankcase moisture, and won't keep the occupants warm, if using engine heat for heating. John, FWIW, I would finish the job off and install a set of shutters, and if you have a hydraulic fan drive, return it to functionality so that the coach will operate well in more weather conditions. You've already done a great job in taking care of the extremes for heat, not that hard to knock off cold while you're at it! happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Don KS/TX (66.82.9.29)
Rating: N/A |
I take exception to Fred and Phil believing that all truckers are dumb and usually wrong. I doubt that a person that spends well over 100k for a truck, and has to make a living with it, driving well over 100k miles a year, can long survive in ignorance or misconceptions. I found just the opposite to be true while out on the road with my truck, the guy that owns his own truck and drives it, usually knows more about caring for trucks than the so called mechanics that he has to rely on too often. I am not sure how Fred can determine the difference between a truck owner/operator and just another dumb hired truck driver, must be some sort of magic power, I always had to ask and sleuth to find that out. (or just wait and see if he leaves the motor running for the night and while fueling.) | ||
| Tony (64.215.196.109) Rating: N/A |
You just have to take into consideration where this Information Is coming from and look over It, The only thing that FF has ever done that Impressed me was putting In the 50 series In his coach and I am not so sure that he did that without help, he has been on the water for so long that he Is getting waterlog, just owning the boat with the 238 In It makes him an expert, don't you know that | ||
| John Rigby (66.25.227.151)
Rating: N/A |
Buswarrior Your input was most interesting thanks. Past experience driving in 90 to 100 deg heat has showed me that the cooler i.e. 185/190 deg engine temp the better performance I have got out of my 671. So when the temp starts to creep up above 190/to 195 to 198 to 199 to 200deg the WORST the power /performance seems to get very bad.I back off at 199 change down whatever to get the temp down. However there has been times when I have been to slow. My thermostat is rated at 178deg with my new additions should this not keep the temp at around 178 to 185?? Thanks John | ||
| Peter Broadribb (Madbrit) (67.136.90.190)
Rating: N/A |
Fast Fred with a 50 Series in his coach? Is that for real? Peter. | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior) (64.229.208.150)
Rating: N/A |
Hello John. I expect that you will be pleased with your results under extreme heat. You have added considerable capacity to pass heat to the air from the old set-up. The only problem you will have is if you have no way to moderate all that cooling when it isn't really hot out. That's where the shutters and/or fan clutch comes in. They would be thermostatically controlled at a slightly higher temp than your thermostats, so as to allow the system to reach operating temp before the fan starts pulling a lot of air, and then stops it before it cools too far. Keeps everything in a balance for good operating temperatures. On the 6V71 GM transits that I am familiar with, the hydraulic fan clutch allows variable slippage all the way from no fan spinning at all on the idle in the sub zero, to full engine speed when hot out. It works using engine oil pressure and a temp control. I don't know if that style unit is compatible with your 671. Anyone else want to jump in with what options John has to control his great new rad? happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Phil Dumpster (24.16.243.37) Rating: N/A |
Don, by my experience I'd say about 70% of the truckers on the road today are, to put it politely, not exactly the brightest stars in the sky. I never said all truckers are dumb. I did say that truckers are usually wrong about a lot of things. I've met smart owner operators who have been in business for 20 years and operate in the black. I've met owner-operator wannabees who were in reality leased with England or Prime or any number of "lease/purchase" trucking scams in operation in this industry. I've also met owner operators who had piles of credit and drove for a year or two but never made money. Just become someone is an "owner operator" does not bestow upon the person some special wisdom. Having said that, it is the number of drivers out on the road today throughout the industry (long haul, local, and everything in between) that are dumber than a box of rocks that gives all truckers a bad reputation by default. This is why today there are all kinds of restrictive regulations and hefty fines to back them up. You may not like the reality but it is the way that it is. Since you cannot disqualify someone from employment based on what they might do without a previous record to back it up, the particularly dim trucker candidates usually get weeded out after totalling their second or third rig. The downside is that your family may be in whatever vehicle they collide with. We won't even touch on some of the political philosophies some truckers have decided I must hear whether I wanted to or not. More often not. Actually always not. But damn, they spent 100K for their truck. They MUST know everything. | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.23)
Rating: N/A |
I can agree with all that Phil, except that the percentage of DRIVERS whose elevator never makes it to the top floor is probably more like 80%, and yes, they know just enough to be dangerous, after all, they just learned it all from some other driver on the CB. I guess it is mostly terms, I seem to be hesitant to call the hired driver by the name trucker (hired driver seems more appropriate). I have driven my own rig, and then hired a driver when I became uinable, and know both sides of the fence pretty well. | ||
| TWO DOGS (63.185.72.205) Rating: N/A |
I know what you mean...I've noticed the farther north you go ,the more oxygen deprived peoples brains are... | ||
| Jimmci9 (209.240.205.68) Rating: N/A |
does that mean your posts are more intelligent when you're wintering in the valley 2d???.... maybe you oughta go back........... | ||
| TWO DOGS (63.185.72.205) Rating: N/A |
just haveing fun.....  | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.46)
Rating: N/A |
You were supposed to keep that information confidential Two Dogs, pretty soon we will be overcrowded down here. | ||
| Jimmci9 (209.240.205.68) Rating: N/A |
so you found me a place yet, don??? | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.16)
Rating: N/A |
Still lookin Jim. I am slow these days you know. | ||
| TWO DOGS (65.179.208.112) Rating: N/A |
show him that shop I showed you Don....would be a nice "bus conversion' shop | ||
| FAST FRED (63.234.23.188) Rating: N/A |
"Fast Fred with a 50 Series in his coach? Is that for real? Peter. " NOPE just more ignorant board mis information, I'm happy with the stick shift 8V71 in the Sportscar and would chose a transit with a small Cummins to transplant when the time comes. The series 50 shakes too much , the series 40 is being discontinued by GM (why pay 300% more for an engine built by International for DD paint?) The L10 is a great engine , but hardly needed for a 25,000 lb road rocket. FAST FRED |