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FAST FRED (63.233.189.243)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 5:54 am: | |
This was a nice consice bit of writing picked up from a boat board , that should help the Newbee get started.
John,
Your alternator is not the culprit, it is your regulator that determines what type of charging your batteries get. Most marine engines for reasons known only to God come with an automotive style regulator. These units are designed to do only one thing and that is replace the small burst of energy you expended starting the motor. After a very brief period of allowing the alternator full field output they kick down to a trickle charge. You could motor to Hawaii and never get your house bank full. What you need is a "Smart - 3 stage" regulator that will charge your batteries utilizing bulk, acceptance or float cycles as is appropriate for the batteries given state of charge. There are lots of choices - Balmar, Lifeline, Altra, Cruzpro to name just a few.(They sell for $150 to $250) Get one of these and replace your automotive regulator (usually attached to the alternator itself), and you will be able to efficiently/safely charge your house and starting batteries. I would also invest in a digital display such as a Link 10 or 20 so that you can accuately monitor the batteries as to volatge, amps in/out, time to go, reserves etc. etc.. This is more important for the house bank as you starting battery can be monitored just for voltage.
Lastly, there is no reason not to use deep cycles for starting except they cost more. I would get a pure starting battery with lots of CCA (cold cranking amps - not to be mistaken for MCA - Marine cranking amps) so long as the starting battery can NEVER be used as a house battery (which would kill it off very quickly).
Take Care,
Lifted by FAST FRED |
TWO DOGS (63.185.72.205)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 6:39 am: | |
or,ya' could get a g.m. alternator,with built in internal regular |
Nick Morris (Nick3751) (65.117.139.135)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 7:20 am: | |
On that note 2 Dogs, and everyone else.
My alternator (I think and not generator) has a large 6 or 8 gage wire running to the cables from the batteries. It also has a few 12 to 14 gage wires running to what I thought was an adjustable regulator. Is this thing a alternator or generator? If it's a generator how do I swap it over, is it nessesary, and if not what's the best course of action to test the thing? |
Jimmci9 (209.240.205.68)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 8:00 am: | |
you've probably got the original generator, nick... and if it charges, i'd keep it... 'cause unless you've got some big$$$, theres no reason to change....on my 5105, a '54 model, i still have my generator....with the 671, unless you want to do some serious remodeling on the engine, the direct drive set-up is about the only way to go.... |
James Maxwell (Jmaxwell) (66.81.61.90)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 10:45 am: | |
Problem with the article is that it has very little applicability to "most" of our buses, especially those equipped w/OEM Delco alternators, which are internally and inherantly self regulating for amperage and externally voltage contolled--somewhat different arrangement than most Toyotas. Also, seems to be contradictory. The article says there is nothing wrong with using deep cycle batteries for starting then discusses ratings for selecting starting batteries. First, certain batteries, particularly gel and AGM deep cycle, do not take well to starter service, and in fact can be terminally damaged by such use. Quite simply, there is no hard and fast rule here and no universal fix; it depends on the system under consideration. |
Nick Morris (Nick3751) (65.117.139.135)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 12:48 pm: | |
Jim,
My rig is belt driven does that matter? |
DonTX/KS (66.82.9.61)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 4:34 pm: | |
I disagree James, and I agree with the article. When designing my bus, I bought a Heart inverter, AND a three stage regulator for my original 8v71 alternator. I would heartily recommend everyone doing just that, the difference is huge, and the effects on the house batteries is wonderful. After all, the charger in the inverter does exactly the same thing (three stage). |
Jimmci9 (209.240.205.68)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 4:42 pm: | |
nick.... if you have a belt driven, it can be either a generator or an alternator....look for a tag....mine is a 12v generator, positive ground, direct drive...with yours being belt driven, you can change easily to whatever suits.... |
Nick Morris (Nick3751) (65.117.139.135)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 7:16 pm: | |
I thought I had had an old Allice Chalmers tractor with a belt gen. Didn't really pay much attention when the guy working on it put the alternator on it so I didn't know what was involved.
Would your guess be that it is a gen with the regulator back there or do some alternators use external regulators? If it is a generator can I take it to Advance and get them to test it or is there another method? |
Sam Sperbeck (204.248.119.254)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 7:44 pm: | |
Hi Don,
You said "the difference is huge" with the three stage regulater on the bus alternator, but you didn't say what the difference was. Do the bus starting batteries last longer or is the difference only when you use the bus alternator to charge the house batteries? Just curious as to why you recomend that everyone switch to a three stage regulator on the bus alternator. What are the advantages?
Thanks, Sam Sperbeck
La Crescent, MN |
DonTX/KS (66.82.9.16)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 8:42 pm: | |
Fair question. The biggest difference is in recharging time when for instance running the genset at night for a charge top off. With the characteristics of an automotive type regulator, as the post said, you could drive to Hawaii and back and STILL not get to full charge!
This alone would increase the life of house batteries, as well as a pleasant difference when you don't have to run the genset so long, AND you get a proper charge. The three stages are positive steps, not a gradual increase. The link 2000 system I had with mine, showed the stage of charging, and monitored the battery temperature as well during charge.
I used my big engine alt to charge and control the house batteries. An inexpensive one wire Delco 24volt hangon did the starting batteries, and you could hook them together if you wanted for starting (or to get home in an emergency if one of the alternators quit).
I found this system to be very rewarding, and would do it again the same way if I built another. |
Mike S (67.37.129.138)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 1:04 am: | |
Don
Just for my information who was the manufacturer and model of regulator you used?? Thanks Mike |
FAST FRED (63.234.23.188)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 5:29 am: | |
For the power post camper the orig coach alt with its moron brain will work just fine.(after readjustment)
For the camper that pulls the house bank down to that 50% point and moves on the difference would be considerable , in charge time.
Automotive / truck V regs will only give the batt set about 1/2 of their rechage every hour.so a 100A bank reduded 50% will need 50A and get 35 or so , 25 gets into the batt , the rest is "pushing " it in.
Second hour the batt set will need 25A and see 20 charge , 12.5 going to the batt the rest to "push it in".
AS you can figure this works much better for a start batt that may have only used 1% of its cap starting the engine.
GM and other bus regulators are not ever this bright and only go to a set voltage and try to hold it. Thats why so many bat sets get boiled on 12 hour drives after the coach HVAC has been removed.
3 or 4 stage regulation can be done with a coach alt , or for the real boony folks a belt driven alt off the noisemaker works great!
FAST FRED |
DonTX/KS (66.82.9.57)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 9:43 am: | |
Mike, I cannot recall. I bought it in a package from a Heart dealer, the inverter, link 2000, and the regulator. I am sure it is NOT Heart that makes it |
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