| Author |
Message |
Bob Baldwin (Bob4106) (69.132.84.145)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 10:37 am: | |
This is what I was told. Is this right. Wiring for my bus should not be done like a house. Should be done like this KEEP THE NEUTRALS AND GROUNDS SEPARATE. GROUND THE GROUND TO THE BUS CHASSIE.Ok no problem there. I got a box that does keep the neutral and ground separate. But i'm lost at the generator. There is 2 white(neutrals) 2 blacks and a green. I looked and the green is tied in on the same as the whites (neutrals).If I run the generator wires to my box where do I place the green one? With the whites (neutrals) Or grounds.
HELP DON"T WANT TO HAVE WET FEET AND GO TO OPEN A METAL DOOR AND @#$%%^ |
Sean Welsh (Sean) (64.81.73.194)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 11:57 am: | |
Bob,
The neutrals need to be kept separate from the grounds when running on shore power.
When running on generator, the neutral and ground must be bonded (connected to each other) at the generator frame, which must also be bonded to the vehicle chassis.
Your transfer switch needs to switch the neutral (as well as the hots) between shore and generator to accomplish this (or else just use a single cord and plug set for your mains, and put a receptacle on your generator output -- to use shore power, unplug the cord from the generator and plug it into the shore receptacle).
If you also have an inverter in your system, the whole ground/neutral bonding issue becomes way more complicated -- see the several other threads on this issue elsewhere on this board.
HTH,
-Sean |
Jim-Bob (12.46.52.74)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 2:23 pm: | |
What Sean said.
If you check into the wiring on your genset, you MAY find that the genset has two coils inside that make 120V. Whether it produces 120 or 120/240 depends on how they are connected.
You need the gen-end wiring diagram for your machine. |
Sam Sperbeck (204.248.119.254)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 3:09 pm: | |
Hi Bob,
You didn't say what size generator, the type you have, or if you have a transfer switch in your wiring plan, but the way you describe the wires from your generator (two white, two black, and a green) indicates that it is set up to produce 120 volts only. If that is the case, do you have the wiring diagram for your generator? I ask because if you are going to use it that way and wire it through a three pole transfer switch you will be combining the two neutrals at the transfer switch in order to switch the neutrals. You will then need to use a neutral wire capable of carrying the combined amps that the hots carry from the transfer switch to your panel. As an example, if the wires from your generator are capable of carrying 30 amps, then the neutral between the transfer switch and panel has to be capable of carrying 60 amps. This only applies if your generator is produceing 120 volts on each of the two hot legs to neutral and doesn't read 240 volts between the two hot legs, not if it is set up for 120/240 volts. My 7.5 KW Onan Quiet Diesel is set up this way is why I am aware of this. If this post doesn't make sense to you, maybe Sean will explain it better. It is important not to overload the neutral between the transfer switch and the panel.
Thanks, Sam Sperbeck
La Crescent, MN |
Bob Baldwin (Bob4106) (69.132.84.145)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 8:31 pm: | |
Wow Hmmm Ok this is what I got and though I could do. I have a 6.5 onan generator. My main box with all the brackers has a wire size 6 awg
4 Conductors 50 amp wired for supply. What has an 50 amp male plug on the end for supply shore power. Now my generator I was plaining on having a 50 amp female plug wired on to that so I could plug from shore to generator with the male plug. I wasn't plaining on useing a tranfer switch. Didn't think I need one because I seen a RV wired like this. Will this not work? |
Jerry Liebler (165.121.34.48)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 10:29 pm: | |
Bob,
My thoughts on the plug system VS transfer switch are the switch is much safer and is designed to do the job. While the plugs will work there is a distinct possibility of getting a part of your hand on a hot conductor while either plugging in or out and the plugs are only designed for a few insertions, how often do you unplug your dryer or stove at home? I've broken several on my welder's extension cord & gotten zapped unplugging it. Manual or automatic transfer switches are not much more expensive than cheap plugs and less than good twist locks. Ron the busnut has a 50 amp automatic for about $89. I'll sell a used 100 amp manual 3 pole switch that came with my generator for a little less.
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120 |
Jerry Liebler (165.121.34.48)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 10:47 pm: | |
All,
I would like to add a bit to Sam's comments above. Not only the neutral wire but the switches too need to be sized based on the amps. 50 amps at 120 volts is 6KW any larger generator that only supplies 120 volts will require larger than 50 amp switch gear whether plugs, auto or manual transfer switch. Fortunately most generators can be set up for 120/240 & then 50 amps covers up to 12KW. But if you're the victim of Onan's folley with the quiet diesel you need more expensive switch gear or your insurance company will get a free ride if you have an electrical claim.
Regards
Jerry |
Sam Sperbeck (204.248.119.254)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2004 - 8:53 am: | |
Hi Bob,
With the way you plan to wire your generator into a 50 amp receptical you do NOT need to be concerned with the issues I brought up in my previous post. I wired our 4106 like you plan to 14 years ago with a 6.5 Onan that only produces 120 volts on two legs and it has worked fine, so I see no problem in you doing the same. My concern was related to use of a transfer switch, as I did in the Prevost we are working on with the 7.5 KW Onan. If your 6.5 Onan is like the one we have in our 4106 it has one 30 and one 20 amp breaker on it so combined you have 50 amps so combining the two neutrals at your 50 amp receptical will work just fine. I'm sorry I alarmed you with my previous post and had I known how you were planing your wiring I wouldn't have posted. Your post was about neutral/ground and Sean answered your question well.
Jerry, your concern about using a receptical, I think, is moot, as we have no alternative to having a plug at the end of our shore cord. We have to plug into the campground receptical anyway so what is the difference if we plug into a generator receptical? Are campground recepticals of better quality to withstand repeated use?
Thanks, Sam Sperbeck
La Crescent, MN |
BrianMCI96A3 (69.68.102.7)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2004 - 9:43 am: | |
I'm going to have to agree with Sam about the plug set-up, even though I have one of Ron the Bus Nut's 50 amp transfer switches.
At NDOT, on my side of the shop, a plasma cutter, a mig welder, and a hoist are all wired for the same type receptical as shore power, and in that corner of the shop there is only one receptical.
The hoist is ususally plugged in the most, but it is not unusual to have the three swapped on the same receptical several times a day... day after day.
We have never had a plug or the receptical fail...
I'm of the opinion that those plugs are pretty sturdy and will last far longer than any plugging and unplugging a busnut could possibly do.
Brian |
James Maxwell (Jmaxwell) (66.81.60.1)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2004 - 11:25 am: | |
I'm with Brian on the plugs. I use a common outlet in my shop for air compressor and 2 welders(along with a 50' extension for the welders; switching plugs for what I am using. Been there 28 yrs without a failure of receptacle or plugs My Grumman is set up with the plug arrangement; the Neoplan is set up with manual transfer switch for now. |
Bob Baldwin (Bob4106) (69.132.84.145)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2004 - 1:00 pm: | |
Sam you got it thats the generator I have. I as one 20 amp and one 30 amp breaker on it. Like i said my plain was to use a single cord and plug set for my mains, and put a receptacle on my generator output -- to use shore power, unplug the cord from the generator and plug it into the shore receptacle). And was told to keep the KEEP THE NEUTRALS AND GROUNDS SEPARATE. After looking at the wires on the generator i knownest the green is tied in on the same as the whites (neutrals). But after reading all this i see i'm ok as long as long as I keep The neutrals separate from the grounds when running on shore power.When running on generator, the neutral and ground must be bonded (connected to each other) at the generator frame, which must also be bonded to the vehicle chassis. Thanks for all the help.
I hate to have my grandson have wet feet and try to open the door on the bus and get a shock |
Sam Sperbeck (204.248.119.254)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2004 - 4:10 pm: | |
Hi Bob,
Your method should work just fine. Enjoy your conversion and take your grandson with you as much as possible, you will both enjoy the experience more. Good luck in your travels.
Thanks, Sam Sperbeck
La Crescent, MN |