| Author | Message | ||
| Brandon M (Brandon314159)
Registered Member Username: Brandon314159 Post Number: 22 Registered: 3-2011 Posted From: 12.108.0.2  Rating: N/A |
Hey all, Spent a couple hours searching the old archives, and couldn't find much in the way of pictures/explanations for my question (lot's of good other info learned though!) Currently my '55 4512 has a VH transmission (mechanical F-N-R and the big air cylinder for Hyd - N - Lockup). 1-speed...either hydraulic or lockup. I am sourcing a VS2-8 so I can have another gear (currently 1:1 in the VH = 55MPH @ 2300-2350RPM). Should help MPG and engine longevity if this swap works. My question is, does the VS2-8 sprung coupling bolt up nicely to the 6-71 'flywheel' as it would to a 6v71/8v71? Am I in for a big home-brew project with the lathe and milling machine? Haven't seen any photos/diagrams/etc. that show the differences between the two...(the basics are right...angle, length of trans, output coupling). Bellhousing should be similar? Any words of wisdom from those who've dealt with the older coaches? Thanks in advance! -Brandon | ||
| Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member Username: Bill_gerrie Post Number: 515 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 216.198.139.38  Rating: N/A |
Brandon The VH/VS2-6/VS2-8/V730 all have the same housing except for a bump on the adapter ring that you need to block off for the V730. The VS2 series are available in two final drive ratios. .88 to 1 for the final drive and the other is 1.04 to 1. The V730 is .85 to 1. You will need a different flywheel depending on the tranny selected and different shifter mechanisum. The V730 is a lot newer then the other ones so more redily available to buy and for parts. I don't remember if the VH uses the spacer ring or not but you will need one for the other trannies. If you change engines at some point the V730 has a higher HP rating then the other ones. Hope this helps you. Bill | ||
| Paso One (Paso_1)
Registered Member Username: Paso_1 Post Number: 186 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.165.246.240  Rating: N/A |
Hi Brandon I have a VH9 bolted to a 6V71 in my shop so I can take any pictures you might need. I also have a VS2-8 bolted to a 8V71 in the shop. They Made a VS2-6 that they used with the 6V71. Not sure what the differance between the VS2-8 and the VS2-6 are exactly. But if you need pictures let me know. | ||
| Brandon M (Brandon314159)
Registered Member Username: Brandon314159 Post Number: 23 Registered: 3-2011 Posted From: 12.108.0.2 Rating: N/A |
Hey Paso 1, Some photos would be great...just trying to get everything lined out that I may need! I have a photo or two of the 8V71 connected to VS2-8...but could use some photos of the interface to compare with my 6-71. A photo or two of the VH9 interface would be good. Email me off list if you wish brandon 314 @ gmail . com (remove spaces) Thanks! | ||
| Brandon M (Brandon314159)
Registered Member Username: Brandon314159 Post Number: 24 Registered: 3-2011 Posted From: 12.108.0.2 Rating: N/A |
Here are a couple photos of the current setup: This shows the hydraulic - netural - lockup shifting mechanism (large air cylinder w/ lockout): https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/29830_553963456051_42000869_32277653_ 1344134_n.jpg This shows the engine to transmission interface a little (I don't see a spacer...just the bellhousing part that the starter bolts into as well): https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/29830_553963545871_42000869_32277670_ 3032865_n.jpg So I guess the main question is, do I need a different flywheel (or what are the differences?) and do I need the spacer ring off the 8-71 to VS2-8 interface? Thanks! P.S. These photos are pretty old, so don't judge the condition of the engine compartment too sternly :-) (Message edited by Brandon314159 on July 14, 2011) | ||
| Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member Username: Bill_gerrie Post Number: 516 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 216.198.139.38 Rating: N/A |
Brandon All the trannies mentioned use a different flywheel for each one. VS2-6 uses a flywheel with a large steel plate to drive tranny. VS2-8 uses a gear looking type of drive. V730 uses a spring type of flex plate to drive the tranny. All of these need a 2 1/2" spacer ring as well which can be hard to locate. Nimco in NJ might have everything you need. Bill | ||
| Tom Christman (Tchristman)
Registered Member Username: Tchristman Post Number: 308 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 66.218.33.156 Rating: N/A |
Personally wouldn't waste my time converting the old VS to overdrive. You still have hydraulic 1st gear that heats up seriously on a long grade, and doesn't provide any engine braking unless in direct or overdrive. The V730, on the other hand, can lock up in first gear to keep the transmission from overheating in the mountains and provide engine braking in 1st also. I went on highway 4 from 395 out to Angels Camp staying in 1st the whole way. Wouldn't do it again and don't suggest it, but at least I made it. Good Luck, TomC | ||
| Brandon M (Brandon314159)
Registered Member Username: Brandon314159 Post Number: 27 Registered: 3-2011 Posted From: 12.108.0.2 Rating: N/A |
Bill: The 8v71 that I am removing the VS2-8 from should have this spacer ring...is it the correct one for my 6-71? Tom: In 1:1 my 6-71 pushes the fairly light TDH-4512 over most of the bumps around here in the Pacific NW. Only once have I had to downshift on a long grade into hydraulic (last 1/4 mile)...and that was because I had >10 passengers on-board. The engine is turning 2200-2300RPM at 55MPH so it seems to climb over grades without needing to downshift. Currently my coach is running about 19,500lbs...so fairly light comparatively. What I really need is the overdrive addition as I'd prefer cruising RPM's be slightly lower for 60-65MPH driving. Thanks for the input! I guess I just need to split the trans off to figure out what the VH uses and how to modify it for the VS2-8 | ||
| Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member Username: Bill_gerrie Post Number: 517 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 216.198.139.38 Rating: N/A |
Brandon The spacer ring is the same for all trannies. The flywheel will be different if you are going to use the VS2-6. Do you have a VS2-6 already? I have all the books on the VS series so if you need any info just let me know. You can call me anytime as well. Look in profile. Bill | ||
| Brandon M (Brandon314159)
Registered Member Username: Brandon314159 Post Number: 28 Registered: 3-2011 Posted From: 12.108.0.2 Rating: N/A |
Hey Bill, I have a VS2-8, and am removing a VH (single speed original to the 1955 TDH-4512). I'll need to look closer and see if mine has a spacer ring. The flywheel off the 8v71 is not available, so I may have to do some machining to make things connect up. Thanks for the info. I will contact you about the manuals/books. Need to check my stash (I think I may already have a VS2-8?) -Brandon | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 1475 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 76.4.118.153  Rating: N/A |
Brandon I have a VS2-8 manuel if you need anything from it. Gomer | ||
| Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member Username: Bill_gerrie Post Number: 518 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 216.198.139.38 Rating: N/A |
Brandon There is no way to machine a fit for a VS2-8. The flywheel has a series of teeth cut into it to connect to the O/D clutch pack. I used the flywheel from a VS2-8 on my 6V92TA to make an O/D unit for my V731 so I know exactly what the flywheel looks like. It is 3 piece heavy cast steel flywheel with 30 springs inside it to act like shock absorbers for the O/D clutch pack. Call anytime as I am retired but remember we are 3 hours ahead of you for time. EST 9pm your time is midnight here. Bill | ||
| Paso One (Paso_1)
Registered Member Username: Paso_1 Post Number: 189 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.165.246.240 Rating: N/A |
Sorry to take so long to post the pictures. I only have the V730 removed from the 6V71 The VS2-8 is the one with the orange filter The greasy one is the VH9 It appears the VS2-8 and the VH9 has the spacer mentioned    | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 2103 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.71.157  Rating: N/A |
it must depend on application. My 4505 has the v730 and I removed one from a fexible with a 6v-71 and neither used that spacer ring. Apparently they are only needed for the vs series. | ||
| Paso One (Paso_1)
Registered Member Username: Paso_1 Post Number: 190 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.165.246.240 Rating: N/A |
If you focus your eye on the starter hump. You can see the distance from the hump to the tranny flange. VH9 and VS2-8 has the extra space The V730 has no spacer in the three pictures above  | ||
| Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member Username: Bill_gerrie Post Number: 519 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 216.198.139.38 Rating: N/A |
John The spacer must be used with a GM cradle. It allows the tranny to clear the rear motor mount. It has been so long since I saw a 6V71 with a V730 but I know for sure the 8V71 in a GM must have the spacer ring for the V730 trannies and both 6 and 8V71 use the spacer for the VS series due to the O/D clutch pack. Bill | ||
| Paso One (Paso_1)
Registered Member Username: Paso_1 Post Number: 191 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.165.246.240 Rating: N/A |
Thats good to know Bill I was keepimg the 8V71 incase I ever rebuild it and had planned to use my Spare V730 On it, so I would definately need the VS2-8 flywheel and spacer according to how I read your posts. | ||
| Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member Username: Bill_gerrie Post Number: 523 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 216.198.139.38 Rating: N/A |
Paso 1 You will need the spacer ring on an 8V71 and a V730. The VS2-8 flywheel is only good if you use the VS2-8 tranny. It has no other applications. Your first picture is the V730 flywheel with the drive plate attached. There should be a cup and a spring in the centre of the drive plate. Make sure the series of springs around the drive plate are not broken as well as it is common for that to happen. Bill | ||
| Brandon M (Brandon314159)
Registered Member Username: Brandon314159 Post Number: 33 Registered: 3-2011 Posted From: 12.108.0.2 Rating: N/A |
I thought I had the manuals for a VS2-8 laying around here, but have been unable to find them. Anyone have some scans of the VS2-8 manual? Would happily reimburse. Thanks! | ||
| Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member Username: Bill_gerrie Post Number: 526 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 216.198.139.38 Rating: N/A |
Brandon I have the VS/VH service manual SA1239G. It covers all VH and VS maintenance and overhaul procedures. It is a lot of pages with a lot of colored diagrams on large pages so I expect it would be costly to reproduce. Probably around $30 to $40 in printing cost but if you want it I can have it done in town. What ever it cost me is all you pay plus shipping. Let me know. Number in profile. Bill | ||
| Brandon M (Brandon314159)
Registered Member Username: Brandon314159 Post Number: 34 Registered: 3-2011 Posted From: 184.76.34.86 Rating: N/A |
Hey all, Quick update before hitting the bunks! The VH has been removed, and the VS2-8 flywheel attached to the 6-71. The biggest issue so far is that it requires ~5" of spacer (instead of the stock 2 3/8" spacer for a VS2-8 on a 8v71. I am looking for a VS2-8 additional spacer (or if someone has one of these mystical 5" spacers) to mate these two up. It will require some modification of the drive-line exiting area, but should all be do-able with the plasma cutter/cutting torch/welder. I have tons of photos to document the differences, flywheels, etc. etc. which I will be posting up on my notes website. So if anyone has a lead on another spacer they could get me before this weekend, that would be spectacular! Thanks! | ||
| Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member Username: Bill_gerrie Post Number: 536 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 216.198.139.38 Rating: N/A |
Brandon I have never heard of needing 2 spacers. Something is wrong. The housing on the 6V71 is the same as the 8V71 and you only need 1 spacer. Call me if you want. Number in profile. Bill | ||
| Dal Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 673 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 98.20.56.115  Rating: N/A |
Bill, I don't think he has a 6V71 and the 6L71 is different than the V models. Brandon, is this because you don't have space in the bell housing spacer or is it because of the mounting of the engine? You can always move the engine back enough to make it work, not a huge job, but a pain in the pants. I don't know this for a fact, but I've seen 6-71's with the VS2-8 with only one spacer. | ||
| Brandon M (Brandon314159)
Registered Member Username: Brandon314159 Post Number: 35 Registered: 3-2011 Posted From: 174.255.172.249 Rating: N/A |
Hey! The single spacer would have had to be 5.25" thick, otherwise the flywheel/od clutch combo won't fit inside the bellhousing with the two mated. Quick and dirty is two spacers...eventual 'correct' is a single spacer. The bellhousing depth referenced from crankshaft face is much smaller on the 6-71 versus a v motor. Bummer. Anyone have photos of the 6-71 mated to vs2-8? Anyone have a lead on another spacer for fair price? Luke wants 500 but thats a bit steep for not the 5.25" one Could have my own cast at that price or buy a whole transmission/spacer combo. Nimco bus scrapped their stock. I could also trade for a v730 spacer if someone had one. I have a couple videos and lots of photos to share! Thanks guys, off to the day job. | ||
| Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member Username: Bill_gerrie Post Number: 537 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 216.198.139.38 Rating: N/A |
Brandon Sorry. Didn't read that it was a 6-71 and not a 6V71. Bill | ||
| Brandon M (Brandon314159)
Registered Member Username: Brandon314159 Post Number: 37 Registered: 3-2011 Posted From: 173.8.221.225 Rating: N/A |
No problem :-) I appreciate all your guys help on this project! It should be a sweet drive train once done (6-71 Turbo/Aftercooled mated to VS2-8). With the rear end I have, '2nd' gear is 55MPH @ 2250RPM (good for pulling hills) and splitter overdrive should knock that down to about 1600-1700RPM at 55MPH. Comfortable cruiser at 1800-1900RPM. Thanks! |