| Author |
Message |
cgoodwin (208.12.29.127)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 9:35 pm: | |
I just took my new (new to me) 6v92TA in for a complete check over, filters and fluids, rack, etc. I got a call today explaining that they have found "Quite a bit of what looks like roller bearing cage on the drain plug" It has been explained to me that roller bearings are used on the alt, air compressor, and water pump and that although the engine makes no unusal noise it is likely that the bearing material (ferous) came from one of these locations, because there is no current sign of failure the mechanic believes that there had been a previous failure, the component was replaced but the shrapnel was not cleared and slowly made it's way to the pan???
I am a mechanic by trade, specializing in german cars with more than 25 years experience, that said, no german cars come with 6V92's. It seems to me that a better safe than sorry attitude is best here so I have instructed the shop to remove the pan and inspect, if they find nothing to explain the metal, to begin removing the Alt, Compressor and Water pump looking for signs of failure or previous failures.
The engine is quiet and strong, no unusal smoke, no unusal sounds, and everything works. Any suggestions or educated guesses????????
Chris |
TWO DOGS (65.179.209.13)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 9:56 pm: | |
it's really strange what some mechanics do....don't know how long you have had the bus...I'd like to hear what they see when the pan comes off....I was working on my bobcat once .repairing a BIG chain on the main drive & found another chain in there..the mechanic before had just left it in the oil bath....I think if they can't see anything...put the pan on & take it for some short runs....don't get too far from the house....then work up to 100 mile trips... |
cgoodwin (208.12.29.127)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 10:04 pm: | |
Seems to me that they must have had a catastrophic failure at some point and just left the junk in the case...I don't understand at all, I have had to do 8 hrs labor because I dropped something in the engine, you make that mistake once and then spend an extra 30 min on each subsequent job making sure nothing can fall anywhere you can't fish it out with a magnet or claw.
I just figured that now was a better time to rip into it than in Azerbijan or on the Cumquat overpass in Pittville on a 120 degree day with my one year old crying in the bus! It looks like I could easily drop a grand in labor to find out that all is well, but we will have to see, I am bracing for the impact as we speak. |
John Rigby (24.174.238.253)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 10:21 pm: | |
Ace, I believe, also found metal parts in the pan of his 8v92, I dont know what came of it.
Lets hope it was from previous failure, cause I know it a concern.You are doing the right thing checking those areas.
John |
TWO DOGS (65.179.209.13)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 10:35 pm: | |
if something did take a dump into your engine,look at it on the outside,should be a new part on there,look for fresh gasket cement,if I was the mechanic..I would have told the boss it needs to go to auction or the oil needs to be changed....sounds like a dumb answer,but,drive it around with new oil, it will either be o.k. or it won't... |
guy bouchard (209.162.160.146)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 11:15 pm: | |
You might want to check the cam gear train idler gear; double roller bearing in there, seldom changed out in in-frame jobs. Not nice if it leaves at full revs.
Guy 4905 |
Ace (24.28.44.58)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 11:16 pm: | |
John you are correct! I found a small curved piece of metal about 1/2x1/2x30thousands thick in the pan. When I had the bus at ABC for other work the head mechanic with clean hands took the piece to the other head mechanic with dirty hands and he came up with the idea that 1, it's either a broken piece of feeler gauge left over from previous rebuild or 2, it's possible it's a piece from around a pump. Don't quite remember what pump but said it usually goes a little at a time and then quits abrubtly! They both seemed to think it was a feeler gauge that was broke off while doing some adjusting!
Motor runs fine, doesn't smoke, no wierd noises that I can tell so life goes on as usuall. If and when something drastic happens, I'll fix it then!
Until then, the conversion continues!
Ace |
cgoodwin (208.12.28.149)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 2:44 am: | |
Hmmm, look for new parts and or fresh gasket cement, never would have thought of that. If it were that simple do you think I would have bothered posting?
Firstly, perhaps you did not read the part where I said "I am a mechanic".
Secondly, are you seriously suggesting that I or anyone just "take it for some short runs....don't get too far from the house....then work up to 100 mile trips"??? Is this in your opinion sound advice? Just button it up and take the 20,000 lb vehicle out on the road and see what happens... Are you completely daft? Let's see, spend upwards of $1000 to get everything checked out and find out if there is something failing which can be repaired now, in a shop, or just button it up and hit the road hoping that it will not fail and destroy a $10,000 engine??? AND who has a 40' bus to take 100 mile trips? I walk farther than that to go to the bathroom! If I wanted to "Work up to" 100 mile trips I would ride a bicycle would'nt I!!
Next:"if I was the mechanic..I would have told the boss it needs to go to auction or the oil needs to be changed" Go to auction or change the oil???? What in the world are you on about? Are you well? Did you skip a pill this morning?
Perhaps I should have specified that I was seeking suggestions or advice from conscious persons. Are you just writing whatever comes into your head without thinking, like some sort of nervous tick? Do you read what you post before posting?
Look I do not want to start a pissing match but please either respond with some thought or simply do not respont to my posts, it only irritates rather than informs or enlightens.
With all due respect,
Christopher Goodwin |
ChuckMC8 (67.97.199.8)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 5:53 am: | |
Hmmmm...Hey, that's easy enough! |
Bill K. (209.86.73.128)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 6:08 am: | |
It is much cheaper to fix before failure. One time I bought a dozer and found a piece of metal in the screen filter, the filter was very hard to get to and get off, When I buy any used machine I give it a complete service, I talked to several people about the metal pieces, some of the advise was that the metal was probably there after so one had already done a fix from a previous failure. So I finished the service and was ready to go when I received a monthly
mag. from cat and had a article fix before failure, after reading I tore the rear-tran apart and found that both ring and pinions had a tooth off. So it's you choice, if it where me I would go further, much easer to fix at home, and if nothing else piece of mind. This is my way. |
Geoff (Geoff) (66.238.120.13)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 8:19 am: | |
Idler gear bearing. |
TWO DOGS (63.185.96.7)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 8:47 am: | |
guess I'm daft.....go ahead & spend 5000.00 on a rebuild |
Jim-Bob (149.174.164.74)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 9:00 am: | |
I found similar bearing parts in my 6-71 oil pan. (Chewed bearing balls & misc metal) I also found gear teeth.
Turns out it was bits from a failed alternator drive bearing that had fallen down THROUGH the timing gears, damaging all but 2 of the gears. Two adjoining gears had 80 percent of several teeth gone. The catastrophe had also split the gear/bell housing where it could not be easily seen, causing an oil leak.
None of this was visible externally except the out of sight oil leak which was one of several manifesting itself on the driveway. The bus ran fine & did not make any abnormal noise. When I repaired this it was evident it had happened quite some time before. Someone had replaced the original generator drive with a modified drive and a belt driven alternator.
My opinion? Listen to Geoff. Remove some of the gear driven accessories & get in there with a light & mirror & see what's there. Rotate the engine & confirm all teeth are in place. If you find any damage, go farther. If there is something partially failed, the next chunk can destroy the engine. As you have noted (and it's my motto too) it's way easier & cheaper to fix it in your shop. Peace of mind in KNOWING what's going on in there is worth a lot to me. |
John Rigby (24.174.238.253)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 9:12 am: | |
My friends 8v71 came apart, they think, because of the power steering mount at the blower. It appears the pump was an off the wall brand that did not connect up right, started to shear the gear teeth on one pully. then the next pully on and on. Total out of frame rebuild. Keep looking.
John |
cgoodwin (208.12.28.149)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 9:49 am: | |
Can somone enlighten me as to where the cam cears are located and the general layout - pleasae don't tell me thay are on the cam and leave it at that. Is there a timing chain? One cam gear or two? Front or rear of the engine? One gear on the crank and another on a single cam like a standard V6? Two cams - one per head - with a chain to the crank? One crank - one cam - and an idler gear???
Also what is the idler gear??
chris |
Buswarrior (Buswarrior) (64.229.210.144)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 9:59 am: | |
Chris, go easy....
"mechanic" means as much as "driver" does as a job title. Doesn't mean anything until you've seen the work...
In my experience there are far more mechanics and drivers out there that think they know what they are doing, than know their limitations....
As well, there are a lot of people reading the boards who needed to hear the advice to go looking for fresh work on the motor.
2Dogs was referring to the decsion making process that goes on in a fleet when an older bus suffers some sort of potentially expensive condition: Get rid of it to auction, or change the oil, and run it and see what happens.
If the motor fails on the road, oh well, it needs replacing. If we get some more miles of revenue generating business out of it, saved the expence of fooling with it.
Hence 2Dogs suggestion: as long as everything sounds good, try it out. What have you got to lose? Gamble on the price of a tow, or rebuild a motor that doesn't need it?
This style of customer service or fleet management may not be to everyone's liking, but it is and has been working for a very long time.
So does this get the pendulum swinging a bit more towards the middle?
happy coaching!
buswarrior |
John Rigby (24.174.238.253)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 9:59 am: | |
Call Luke on moneday he will know 1888 coach 34
John |
jimmci9 (209.240.205.68)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 11:42 am: | |
buy a detroit service manual...it'll cost less than $100.... |
BrianMCI96A3 (65.40.150.253)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 11:48 am: | |
As a diesel mechanic of 25 years experience, I can safely say that working on a 6v92 is not like working on a car engine (German or otherwise).
Tearing into a 6v92 to remove a few bits of metal can be a costly task, as you are aware, and if you are like many fleet owners, you tell the mechanic to drain the oil, get out as much junk as humanly possible and "ship it" (get it out of the shop and back on the road). That may entail dropping the drain pan, but it might not.
The flip side of the coin is: A flat rate mechanic is given a bus that needs a compressor replaced, he is being paid what the rate book says for a compressor change probably an hour, if he is lucky. Does he tear the engine apart trying to remove every last piece of that failed bearing? Unless he can have that task added to the work order, it isn't likely.
Lastly, a small marginal carrier might ask his mechanic: "If there are pieces of roller bearing left in the engine will it cause damamge to the engine?" The answer, if the mechanic has drained the oil and gotten out as much as he humanly could, will be "It's possible, but probably not, since most of what is left, if not all of it, will be larger pieces that will migrate to the bottom of the pan, and stay there."
I'm not saying any of those choices are optimal, or even the "right way" but I can easily see how each could result in bearing material found in the bottom of the pan.
If as you say they found "quite a bit of...roller bearing cage." the possiblity that it could be an existing condition seems quite slim.
I believe what I would have done first is probe the engine with a mechanic's stethoscope with the engine running up and down the RPM scale at the suspect locations, no unusual noise means no existing problem, I'd then drop the pan, clean it thoroughly look for any remaining bits on ledges or crannies, search for any damage, button it up and send you on your way.
Difficult to say how certian you can be of getting every last piece without tearing down the engine.
Brian |
cgoodwin (208.12.28.149)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 12:22 pm: | |
Fleet management...Awesome, do I have a fleet?
""mechanic" means as much as "driver" does as a job title"...I said "I am a mechanic by trade, specializing in german cars with more than 25 years experience.
Look perhaps my limted experience is clouding my vision. No one ever said that the motor should be rebuilt, I surely did not suggest it and frankly were that the case I would buy a good 8V92 and swap it out. The question was where could roller bearing material come form, I never asked anyone if I should "just change the oil and run with it" To me this seems a rediculous concept, even to a "Fleet manager". You find signs of damage you investigate before failure occures. Do you mean to tell me that Greyhound simply fills a bus with passengers and sends it out on the road after finding a bunch of metal in the oil pan? The engine seizes, the air brakes lock up and 53 people and all thier goods are sitting at the head of a 20 mile tail back on a mountain pass....Somehow I do not think so.
Furthermore, even if "fleet managers" were so foolish, why would anyone else be? Hell, some people sleep with sheep, it doesn't make it a good idea! If in fact there is internal damage then it can now still be repaired without waiting until the whole thing is eaten up or siezes.
As for my limited experience. 25 years working on German cars including working for Porsche Racing, converted a bus in 1990 and drove from LA to Nicaragua and back, lived aboard for 2 years. Design and construction of underwater filming equipment in London- credits include; Star Wars 1, The Beach, Tommarrow Never Dies, Entrapment, etc., 5 years designing and building expedition vehicles for Discovery, Nat Geo and other compaines. Built and drove a 2.5 TD Landrover 110 from London to the Arctic - across Russia - crossed to Africa at morrocco and continued to CapeTown and returned, crew of 4 living full time in the rover. Raced rally cars and flown all over Africa in small planes, even drove a Mercedes bus into Kosova for a charity during the war. Since the very first wrench i picked up I have never known anyone with a lick of sense who would simply change the oil and see what happened (with the possible exception of a few Mexican fishermen).
IMHO no one should ever just drive a 20,000 lb vehicle "Hoping for the best" and if they do please drop me a line and tell me where you will be travelling so i can avoid the area.
Again, the question was "where could roller bearing material come from?"
Boards are so strange, so many people just want to banter without ever saying anything usefull or make suggestions so bloody obvious i question thier IQ for making them - "Buy a manual" How about you answer the question or just stay out of the thread. Have some common courtesy, if someone asks a question and you don't know the answer, just shut up. perhaps then those who do know will answer without having to read pages of crap and we can all learn something. I thought we were all here to exchange information and experiences, not just blather on and on.
WADR
Christopher Goodwin
Owner
christopher Goodwin Motorsport |
Peter Broadribb (Madbrit) (67.136.122.163)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 12:32 pm: | |
Hmmmm,
Chris Goodwin, now are you originally from England? I knew a Chris Goodwin there and he was into motorsport.
Peter. |
cgoodwin (208.12.28.149)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 12:37 pm: | |
Brian,
This is exactly what is being done, thank you for your imput. Lee at Pacific Torque in Burien Wa. suggested that the pan be dropped (he had already checked for noise) and the bits cleared out, he also suggested that the compressor, alternator and other external bits be removed and inspected and that any residual stray material be removed at that time. he also suggested that the parts (alt, compressor, etc) be inspected to see if a new bearing had been installed in the recent past.
Again thank you for your informed reply to my question.
Sincerely,
chris |
Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 3:20 pm: | |
Sorry to says this, but maybe just maybe I smells a RAT!. Strange the mill still runs just fine with no strange sounds.
Nothing I can add to the above excellent posts. If possible, just change the oil, do NOT drop the pan, look over ALL the stuff inside the oil...
....then if all seems fine even that, then just run the mill with new filtures, then pull a filture later and tear IT apart...
...and at that point if the mill still runs strong with no wierd stuff and the oil remains clean, just carry on. Good luck. |
James Maxwell (Jmaxwell) (66.81.60.148)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 11:13 pm: | |
Wow, all that experience in life and you're only 45, that's amazing! Only thing I saw missing in your resume was history of steady employment. By the way, Mexican mechanics do it much the same as Mexican fishermen. You seem to be bundled pretty tight, maybe a bit too much. |
guy bouchard (161.184.178.40)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 1:08 am: | |
If you say that the parts you found came from a ROLLER bearing, about the only place that a roller bearing is used in DD is the gear train idler. The compressor and pump drives as well as the water pump and the blower bearings are all BALL bearings. The gear train is made up of a drive gear on the rear of the crankshaft meshed to an idler gear which drives a gear on the camshaft which is meshed to the other camshaft gear.The blower drive gear is driven by one of the camshaft gears. All the gears are at the rear of the engine. Hope this answers some of your questions Chris.
Guy 4905 |
John the newguy (199.232.244.26)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 7:45 am: | |
Chris
Hey... I might be a "newbie", but really:
"Hmmm, look for new parts and or fresh gasket
cement, never would have thought of that. If it were
that simple do you think I would have bothered posting?
Firstly, perhaps you did not read the part where I said
"I am a mechanic". "
................................................................................
"Can somone enlighten me as to where the cam cears are
located and the general layout - pleasae don't tell me
thay are on the cam and leave it at that. Is there a
timing chain? One cam gear or two? Front or rear of the
engine? One gear on the crank and another on a single
cam like a standard V6? Two cams - one per head - with
a chain to the crank? One crank - one cam - and an
idler gear???
Also what is the idler gear??
chris "
-----------------------------------------------------
I would buy a manual for my vehicle and learn something about
my engine before I denounce anyone offering a suggestion that
already knows where the dipstick is.
Egads.. Wouldn't an apology be in order here? |
TWO DOGS (63.185.81.164)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 7:53 am: | |
yeah...ya' damn limey |
John the newguy (199.232.244.26)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 8:26 am: | |
What's funny, is that in the original posting, Chris says:
"the mechanic (two were involved) "believes that there had been a
previous failure, the component was replaced but the shrapnel was not
cleared and slowly made it's way to the pan??? "
Doubting your own mechanic(s) whose opinion you've paid well for,
then doubting anyone else who gives you the same opinion for free
is.... well......... I guess Chris has his mind made up that the engine
should be totally rebuilt - period.
In the short time I've been at this forum, I've learned one thing for
certain: There are two different breeds here. One group loves pouring
cash into the "hobby" of building a bus conversion, and the other group
loves RVing in their own designed vehicle as inexpensively as possible.
I'm probably in the same league as you, TD. If it ain't broke, don't
fix it - And don't spend on what you don't need.
I wonder why a master mechanic doesn't just have an oil analysis
done at the closest MCI center. |
Ian Giffin (Admin) (64.228.43.12)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 8:34 am: | |
"Look I do not want to start a pissing match but please either respond with some thought or simply do not respont to my posts, it only irritates rather than informs or enlightens. With all due respect."
Chris, that statement doesn't show all due respect, it shows no respect at all. How about instead of directing my viewers to not respond to your messages, you use the scroll bar on the right side of screen to zip past anything you think is useless information.
Now, again, everyone, please stop the personal attacks. Do that on other bulletin boards, but please don't do it here. It'll just disappear from this board, as you know.
Thank you.
Ian Giffin
www.busnut.com |
degojo (68.35.160.48)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 10:57 am: | |
Remove the oil filter element from the filter and add 3 cups of quartz sand to your oil. Remove any rev limiting devices and run the engine at 4500 rpm for thirty minutes. This will micro pulverize any metal in the oil. Then park your bus and make a movie about it |
cgoodwin (208.12.28.149)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 11:58 am: | |
OK, I do not "want" to rebuild my engine, I however do not think it good advice to simply change the oil and keep driving hoping that there is nothing wrong, I feel this would be foolish and for this reason decided to have the various components removed for inspection. I wrote hoping one or more readers would have had a similar experience and have traced it to say...an alternator bearing and might enlighten me.
I honestly find the suggestion that after finding large chunks of metal in the oil pan, one would simply fill it with oil and drive it until something really fails, to be foolish and irresponsible at best. If someone called my shop and told me that they had found bearing material in chunks in the oil of thier Mercedes, I can not imagine what would motivate me to tell them to fill it up and just keep driving.
If calling a stupid suggestion stupid merits an appology then Mr.Two Dogs has my most sincere appology. I will put the metal encrusted drain plug back in, fill it with oil, look around a bit for anything shiny or covered in gasket cement and keep my travel plans to a 100 mile radius of my home.
Ian, I regret that we have a differing opinion as to how much respect is due, I wrote with the respect I felt due. In the future I will simply not respond to foolish followups.
Mr.Maxwell...I have been steadily employed since I was 15 years of age and am now 40. What I listed is only a sample of my experiences. I however have never learned to suffer fools gladly.
All this because I was hoping to find out where roller bearings were used on a 6v92 over the weekend. Enough said on this subject. |
Johnny (4.174.112.122)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 1:10 pm: | |
I don't agree with "change the oil and drive it", but I have no doubt it does happen. |
BrianMCI96A3 (69.34.169.67)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 1:51 pm: | |
Chris,
the truth of the matter is that you can not equate your experiences wrenching on fine German automobiles with (for instance) a flat rate diesel bus mechanic... or for that matter any of the other scenarios I mentioned earlier. In certain parts of this industry a situation occuring where the metal in the pan is judged to be of no consequence is easily imagined, especially when you consider the precarious nature of charter operations.
In all honesty, if it were my engine, and I discovered such remains in the oil pan, I would have been equally as concerned. I certainly would have drained the oil, removed the pan and as much metal from the engine as I could find, refilled the engine, and run the rpm up and down the scale while listening... If there was no unusual bearing noise (and it is really hard to miss) then it is metal left by a previous failure. I would then sample the engine oil and send it to a lab, if their finding indicate no additional metal in suspension, I'd call it resolved and go on my way.
The chance that a piece of metal from that previous failure causing a catastrophic failure later on is very slim.
Brian |
FAST FRED (4.245.128.98)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 2:20 pm: | |
One of the very large differences between Porsche and GM, is GM die very slowly.
Most DD are VERY happy to protest loudly there impending doom , even if its many many hours away.
A real good inspection of the oil pan contents , (with no terrors being found) , would cause me to go drive and sample the oil at about 25 hours.
Might even pull the oil in a clean can to inspect & replace & pull the filter.
A tubing cutter can open the filter , with out adding particles & a good look with a nasty magnet & magnefying glass might prove usefull.
Sad to say the comments about "good enough for charter" are spot on, many "mechanics" started on Harleys where a bigger hammer was all that was ever used.
Really carefull examination of the oil & a good listen by an experienced DD guy (if avilable) on the dyno is not expensive , and could give you confidance to "carry on".
FAST FRED |
John Rigby (24.174.238.253)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 3:13 pm: | |
Yes, Chris, I agree dont start pulling everything off change the oil, run it and then analize( avalible $15.00 from a DD dealer)I always forget the oil analist, a perfect way to tell you after you have cleaned up, what type of metal may be still going aound and were it came from..
John
Cheers Ian |
TWO DOGS (65.179.200.236)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 3:18 pm: | |
100.00 worth of oil one way.....5000.00 labor for an engine removal & complete disasembly,& re-assembly with your old sleeves & pistons.. |
cgoodwin (208.12.29.127)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 08, 2004 - 7:18 pm: | |
OK
The alternator had spit its bits at some point, it was replaced but no one bothered to clean out the bits. There was "significant" damage to the gear train (cam, crank, idler, etc) and some wear on the main bearings....
I asked the mechanic what he would do if it were his coach and he said he would probably run it as is and take regular oil samples although he said that he would do so because he has 30+ years experience and feels confident that he can hear and feel the engine. I am going down to his shop in the morning to inspect the damage and discuss the options.
It seems to me that if the repair is under 2k it is probably worth it for peace of mind, if it is more than I may look to upgrade from the 6v92 to a good used 8v92.....
I'll see in the morning.
Moral of this story is allways clean everything out after a failure!...And always get a good buyers inspection! Stupid me, and I tell a dozen customers a month to get buyers inspections...Seems a cobblers children always go barefoot.
Chris |
TWO DOGS (65.179.200.115)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 08, 2004 - 8:09 pm: | |
If it has gear teeth in the oil pan...one inch long &3/16 wide....from the gears that run the alt. (bad news)...start your hunt for a new engine or rebuild that one...know you don't like advise from me...but...I won't ever lie to anybody |
jimmci9 (209.240.205.68)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 08, 2004 - 9:36 pm: | |
if you pull the accessories (power steering pump, alternator drive) off the back of the engine (flywheel housing), also pull the 6-bolt star covers, the two 5-bolt man-hole covers, you can nearly see all the gear train on the back of the engine....then you can make an intelligent decision as to the condition of the gear train...hope it helps..jim |
MCIMarty (67.166.82.144)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 12:03 am: | |
Chris,
In the thread above this one you ask about leveling and by the responses from members that have their airbags up for weeks or months at a time, the advice you received from Pacific Torque in Burien, WA does not appear to be accurate advice at all.
(“it is nearly impossible to stop all the little leaks in the air suspension and that as long as the system worked it was best to just leave it. It was explained to me that the system was never intended to hold the bus up for days..”)
The responses on that thread were very helpful and in fact Chris you made what most would consider a huge mistake in thinking your bus only weighed 14,000 lbs. But nobody called you stupid or daft. In fact a member offered to give you a call.
I could not help but notice Chris you often use the word “enlighten” and this word is as you know defined as: giving further insight to, but in the spiritual context in which it is most commonly used when you are “enlightened” first and foremost you have let go of your ego, and then you reach a calm peaceful understanding towards others, a place of unconditional love and compassion.
I in no way mean any disrespect I just found it ironic and felt like expressing my humble opinion and observation. It is times like this in my life when someone spoke up and mentioned something I would typically ignore, that I made personal improvement. If the timing is right this may reach you, if not then maybe it will cross your mind further down the road.
We are all just doing the best we can with the available knowledge and experience that has got us to this point. Each person took the time out of their life to post on your questions, myself included, because they felt they had some bit of information or insight that to them at the time they wrote it, seemed valuable.
All the best,
Marty |
cgoodwin (208.12.28.149)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 5:52 am: | |
Marty...
Enlighten vb. (tr) 1. To give information or understanding to; to instruct; edify. 2. to give spiritual or religious revelation to. 3. poetic. to shed light on.
You however seem to be speaking of "enlightenment" in a Buddist context and while I could go on for some time discussing the variations between Indian, Tebettan, Nepalese, Chinese and Japanese forms of Buddism I will assume that you speak in refference the "East meets West" Allan Watts/David Suzuki Pseudo Zen Buddism translated from the Japanese and popularized in this country in the late 1950's and early 1960's and enjoying some revival today among the "New Age" coffee table philosophers.
Buddism itself as propogated by Buddha and his followers declared that by destroying greed, hatred, and delusion, which are the causes of all suffering, man can attain perfect enlightenment or revelation (haveing all revealed). Buddha clearly stated that enlightenment must come from within each or us and can not be given or emparted, Indian Buddism belives for the most part that it is attained only through mediataion and Acetism while in Zen Buddism lessons are often tought through the use of "Koans" or riddles and in solving a seemingly sensless riddle the student has a revelation regarding the answer he is seeking, ie rather than simply being told an answer to a query, the riddle provides to tools for the questioner to solve the problem himself (or herself).
If you study Buddism and it's history you will find that debates between it's followers often were stern, terse, and at times even utilized violence to make a given point.
As for finding anything in my discourse ironic, I can only assume that you are referring to the apparent incongruity you feel between your impression that I am seeking enlightenment in a spiritual form, and my having misstated my vehicles weight and not having been chastized for it? Not quite sure what you are getting at there, irony on the other hand requires sarcasm which is heavily dependant on the ego, the very thing you are suggesting I should abandon?
While I appreciate your attempt to make this thread a life lesson for me, I did not come here seeking a life lesson nor do I feel that my impatience with those whom I felt were giving obvious advice in an attempt to iether make my question appear foolish or themselves seem less so, is any implication of my need for enlightenment. If you were privy to other threads between myself and those with whom I had harsh words above, you would see that we have come to some form of mutual understanding and now exchange humorous quipps in a friendly manner.
Knowing that often people attempt to give to others what it is that they themselves seek, I offer you this:
"please let me help you to live better said the monkey to the fish as he took him from the stream and gently placed him in a tree" - part of a story from a Zen master - don't think that what is good for you is good for others, or that what has worked for you is what is best for everyone.
"Those who speak against killing and who desire to spare the lives of all conscious beings are right. It is good to protect even animals and insects. But what about those persons who kill time, what about those who are destroying wealth, and those who destroy political economy? We should not overlook them. Furthermore, what or the one who preaches without enlightenment? He is killing Buddhism" Gasan - early Buddist teacher
And lastly - "Nan-in, a japanese master during the Meiji era (1868 - 1912), received a university professor who came to inquire about Zen. man-in served tea. He poured his visitor's cup full, and then kept on pouring.
the professor watched the overflow until he no longer could restrain himself.'Is is overfull. No more will go in!'
'Like this cup," Nan-in said, 'you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empt your cup?'
And a little irony - Thank you so much for your advice regarding the metal in my oil, that is what I came to this thread seeking.
I appreciate everyones opinion if it is just that "advice", if it is ludicrous in my opinion and I call it such am I not simply expressing my poinion? If I come seeking specific advice on my engine and someone takes the time to write simply "buy a manual" who does that serve? They have not given me the advice I sought, they have only responded to respond, they have answered no query, given no help and in fact offered nothing at all. It leads one to question - why make such a reply - is it an attempt to make others look small? is it some form of Tourettes Syndrome?
Thank you for the enlightenment and I hope we have shared some insight and understand one another better.
chris |
cgoodwin (208.12.28.149)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 5:59 am: | |
Two puppies,
I love your advice! Come on, don't be sore. How can you say you never lie to anybody? Don't you remember that night in Paris? We drank fine wine and danced all night along the Rue de Blah-Blah, at dawn we watched the sunrise over the city and you told me.... Well never mind, but it was a lie. I still have a soft spot in my heart for you though. |
cgoodwin (208.12.29.127)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 10, 2004 - 1:33 pm: | |
Just got back from the shop... The alt pieces did some damage to the gear train, some pitting and scratches, not great but not catastrophic. Metal also found it's way into the main bearings, probably plugged the filter and it went into bypass, and the bearings are showing bad wear, scratches and some bronze comming through....
Have decided to replace the main and rod bearings, flush the motor, and button things up. I plan on oil samples every 500 miles for the first 2k or 3k and decide what to do from there. The expense of replacing the gear train is about what replacing the motor with a good uned unit will cost so I am now looking for a good 6v92TA or possibly an 8V92.
Anyone know anything about swapping in an 8V92??? |
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