| Author | Message | ||
| Dal Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 756 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 98.20.60.176  Rating: N/A |
This is a generic post and is not pointed at any one person. Yes, I know that there are a lot of you that enjoy working on your own or can easily write off the cost of bus repair, but and this is a big Butt... There are those that want to have the cost of their goodies covered by a shop that makes repairs and charge going rates. Personally, I charge $35/hr and work 3 - 6 hours per day... you'll be charged for every hour I work, not for the time I spend looking for parts online, travel time or most of the little parts that can need replacing. Both Clifford and I and probably Luke and BK and any number of other bus service places have gotten to the point that we like working on buses, but can't afford the "nit-picking" that happens with individual owners. Yes, we understand that your bus is your baby and probably the largest vehicle that you have ever owned and that you are understandably proud of your accomplishments. But, We look at you spending a couple of hundred to buy a pair of headlights, another couple of hundred to buy LED tail lights, and another couple of hundred for marker lights to replace the existing ones, plus another bunch of hundreds to add more "chicken lights". You'll argue the finer points of a Webasto over original bus heat, OTR A/C over roof air or basement air, Michelins over HanKooks, even soft brake pads over harder brake pads. You'll spend a fortune on buying front and rear caps, or fancy double paned sliding windows with a screen so you can open them, but you'll never open them..... you'll run the A/C. You have to have the sweetest toilet or refrigerator from Norcold or Dometic or some esoteric aftermarket maker. It doesn't bother you to go to Camping world to buy a shroud for your roof air that you knocked off on a low branch... at over $150 each. You'll buy the latest and greatest doo-dad like a new cook top that requires magnetic cookware, and you'll spend beaucoups of bucks to get just the right kind. This can go on and on and on, but...... You will holler about some guy charging you for doing maintenance on YOUR bus and expecting you to pay it. I did a job for a fellow in South Carolina once.... I replaced over 2000 rivets in his Wanderlodge. I even bought and installed umbrella caps on those rivets that were "pop" type, The bucked rivets I didn't charge any more for. The bill was $500 to give him a break and he happily wrote the check, drank (2) bottles of wine, and drove back to Charlotte, NC. On the way, he called his bank and cancelled the check. And you wonder why shops charge so much? This is one of the major reasons I don't work on any buses anymore. | ||
| Glen Rice (Rgrauto)
Registered Member Username: Rgrauto Post Number: 14 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 98.18.117.205 Rating: |
Dallas I think I would have rolled into his drive with a batt.powered drill and told him that I was going to take my rivets back unless he paid me cash plus expenses! I hate chickin-sh't low-life people like that! | ||
| David Dulmage (Daved)
Registered Member Username: Daved Post Number: 289 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 174.136.114.96  Rating: |
Dallas, Most of us are willing to pay a fair price for work done on our cars, trucks or coaches. I work in a business where we charge for technical services that often far exceed what one might typically spend on a coach repair. But we also provide accurate quotations for our work and detail what was done (whether a small dollar amount or large bill) or we don't get paid. If I get a bill for $1000.00 labour, it seems only fair to have a breakdown of what was done. If the bill stated x number of hours at a particular hourly rate for a stated acivity, there would be no confusion or question. Certainly a shop or a mechanic is due a fair price for their labour. No one argues with that. But if it's worth charging for, then it's worth taking the time to identify how the charges were derived. DaveD | ||
| Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member Username: Bill_gerrie Post Number: 564 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 216.198.139.38  Rating: N/A |
Dal How could anyone be that cheap. I wish somebody worked for $35/hr around here. Thankfully I do most of my own work but for those that can't do it the going rate at DD is $110/hr. I am with Glen. It would serve him right to have you drill them all out. Bill | ||
| Mel La Plante (Mel_4104)
Registered Member Username: Mel_4104 Post Number: 179 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 207.216.52.166 Rating: N/A |
Dal i know how you feel,it seems that the bus guys are so cheap that after awhile you end up with just a few good buddys that you will work on their buses.some are so cheap that their nuts squeek when they walk. the other think is the number of tools that just go by by when they leave. one of the big truck dealers in our area will not work or quote on work on a privately owned bus. if you take a bus apart they will tell you what they want off it but always have a reason as to why they cannot take the part off themselves or pick it up. i agree with you they will spend money on all the do dads dut when it comes to saying thanks for a job done they just take their cash and go and buy a bottle of wine, sit around with their little pinky stuck up in the air as if they were some one. best of luck DAL. | ||
| David Dulmage (Daved)
Registered Member Username: Daved Post Number: 290 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 174.136.114.96 Rating: N/A |
My experience with truck shops it that, since they don't usually work on buses, they are often at a loss as to exactly what to do with them. A bus is a different beast than a truck and if you can find a good mechanic who is experienced with buses, he'll be able to take much better care of you than the average truck shop. As for encountering the non-paying customer who has stopped payment or not paid his bill, most of us who have been in business for any time have had the unfortunate experience of having been taken by one or more of them at some time or another. | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1854 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.195.124.20  Rating: N/A |
"As for encountering the non-paying customer who has stopped payment or not paid his bill, most of us who have been in business for any time have had the unfortunate experience of having been taken by one or more of them at some time or another." It may be a PITA, but I've been very successful in these situations by utilizing my local Small Claims Court. Granted, I may get a judgement in my favor and still not collect the $$, but they get a nasty on their credit report for the next 7-10 years! Dallas - Excellent post! I totally understand and agree. FWIW & HTH. . .  | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 1612 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 76.195.75.94  Rating: N/A |
Machinery and inventory is one reason for high wrench costs. A 4 wheel hoist is about $10K , plus electrical hookup, which has to be standing by , even if all you need is a new headlamp. Inventory has to be purchased , and standing by , or repairs may take days or weeks , instead of hours. A backyard wrench can get by with out lots of things , but SPEED is never part of the concept in their repairs. Yes you can raise a bus with a small jack and blocks of wood , but the labor is unproductive. FF | ||
| David Dulmage (Daved)
Registered Member Username: Daved Post Number: 293 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 204.101.119.243 Rating: N/A |
Getting the judgement is often the easy part, collecting is something else. My son had a customer who picked his car up from his body shop in the middle of the night after repairs from a major accident. The car was sold and the customer was living on the other side of the country before any legal action could proceed and my son was left holding the bag for $9,000.00 in parts plus the labour he didn't get paid for. Pretty hard for a small shop to absorb. In this case the customer had cancelled his insurance right after he bought the car so there was no insurance payout either. A couple of lesson learned as well. Keep an unpaid for vehicle like this locked up inside and be sure and get a substantial upfront payment for a major repair where insurance is not involved. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1390 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 72.156.194.7  Rating: N/A |
Dallas, You can't make a living at that rate, nobody charges less than $60/hr today and usually much more. You have to charge for the time you chase parts on the phone too, you have overhead costs. My recent genset work cost me $100/hr and I was lucky to find someone who would do it 2000 mi from home in the hottest summer on record! What bugs me is when I get charged while the mechanic is working on some other vehicle or taking care of a flat that just rolled in. On the other hand it is very hard to keep track of exact time on any one job. | ||
| Brian Evans (Bevans6)
Registered Member Username: Bevans6 Post Number: 92 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 65.92.48.78 Rating: N/A |
At $35/hr (I charge $40/hr - race car work) you are really just paying yourself for your time, on an incremental cost basis. Not paying for any overhead nor making a real wage. I work out of my backyard shop, I deduct costs from my revenues so I don't pay tax on them, and settle for that. About the best thing it does is keep the free-loaders away and pay for a few bits and bobs from time to time. I figure I was probably just going to watch TV or something with the time anyway, so it was free to me. If I was in competition with my day job I'd have to charge a whole lot more. | ||
| Dal Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 757 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 98.20.60.176 Rating: N/A |
Gus, I never do it to make money, I only did it because I enjoyed it. It also helped pay for my toys. Once in awhile I still do a small job here or there, but between my physical problems and pure laziness, I don't work hard at it. Personally, I would rather the owner did the work and let me supervise. That way they learn something about the beast and what it actually takes to work on one. This includes using my tools, jacks, torches, welder, etc. For that there is actually no charge, just whatever someone wants to donate toward consumables and electricity + their camping fee which doesn't go in my pocket, (Oh, and sufficient cold adult beverages to keep me happy)! Dave, Itemizing is great if you can do it. I work on computer equipment on the side, both software and hardware, Linux, Unix, MS, Granny Smith, Cisco, Sun Micro, etc. Usually I have no problem giving a pretty accurate estimate, within 10% of what the costs and charges will be, both for the customer and for the billing department, (LOML). Working on heavy equipment is a completely different animal. Until you break into a system, be it an axle, a governor, a engine block, you have no idea what you will find. Yes, generally, it's easy to figure charges using a flat rate book, but that's usually for an estimate, (at least in my old shop). Consider the last MCI MC9 that came in here. He complained of wandering in the front end, and after questioning more closely, I figured the tie rod ends were worn or the drag link was loose. This was before EVER jacking it up and crawling under it. Once we had it off the ground, we found that every bushing in the front end was so bad you could see daylight between the bushing and the link. When we pulled the drums and hubs, we found that the hub nut had never been torqued, only put on finger tight, and had so much play the threads on the nut had been ruined. I had a used one in good shape and swapped. Should I have charged him for a new nut? or the time to go find it? Many times a mechanic will find a loose bolt or a leaking air line connection that is fixed with a turn of the wrench. Should he add that to your bill as a separate job, fix everything you asked for then ask if he should fix it, or should he take a few minutes to fix it and add it in as just part of the hourly rate? Caution on how you answer: Option #2 will require him to bring the coach back in, jack it up and perform a lot of work that could have been done easily with 15 - 20 minutes work in the first place. Most shops I've worked in consider anything over 2 minutes a tenth of an hour, (6 minutes). You would be amazed at how many guys will fix stuff they see that doesn't take long at no extra charge. Now, if you want all those little things added up on your bill, you'se gonna pay! It is costing you for the time the tech., (I hate that word.... if he's worth his salt, he's a mechanic), to figure up each and every extra item that he's done. If he lists it, you are gonna holler because he added it to your bill without authorization on the work order, and that will give you reason to dispute the bill. As for customers that dispute the bill or do as my example did, ... it's not worth going after them. The particular example I mentioned in the original post was from a different state and according to the prosecuting attorney, would be more of a hassle because I would have to have him served across state lines. So to summarize, it just ain't worth the hassle. I chalk it up to live and learn or Karma or the golden rule. In 6 years I lost around $20K because of deadbeat clients. Could I afford it? nope. Did I learn anything? probably not. Will I do it again? probably. Again, it's not a profit and loss thing for me, it's for the safety of the owner, my peace of mind that I did the right thing and that if someone has to save a buck using my back.... let them. I try to get along with people, although I really don't like dealing with people. I figure if a man is good for his word I can trust him. If he isn't then I'll never do anything for him again. It'll be his loss. Good Luck. BTW, I really wasn't targeting your thread on this one, I just thought it was time to give an opposing view. | ||
| Brandon M (Brandon314159)
Registered Member Username: Brandon314159 Post Number: 47 Registered: 3-2011 Posted From: 173.8.221.225  Rating: N/A |
Interesting points of view! I wanted to chime in real quick... ...I spent days/months searching out some answers on transmissions & jake brakes & etc.. Fortunately, in this world there still exists some old timers and businesses that know a thing or two about vehicles from the '50's and DD's. My specific example, I got my '55 TDH-4512 when I was 23 have been working on it for two years. After spinning my wheels on specific problems, sometimes it is nice to tap the knowledge base of people like Gary in Chicago or the gents in Hillsboro that do DD equipment work. Sometimes having the right part in hand, at ANY price, is nice when you're working with parts long obsolete. I think some people forget that owning old/big/complex things isn't like owning a new Toyota or a Kia. I ran a local clutch/brake/general repair shop here in Portland, OR when I was 20-21. Got a quick view into being on the other side of the counter :-) Never have had any significant repairs shored out (Me and my father are DIY types since teenagers) other than alignments with the expensive tools. You can appreciate the appropriate sized bills when you look at the complexity of a job, the required skill/patience/tool level, and how bad it needs done. :-) | ||
| David Dulmage (Daved)
Registered Member Username: Daved Post Number: 294 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 174.136.114.96 Rating: N/A |
Dallas, Thanks, I understand. I was just looking for something on the bill like R & R studs 8 hrs @$100.00/hr; oil change, lube, change filters 2 hrs @$100.00/hr. That's kind of why I asked the question here before going off half-cocked. I have no complaints about the quality of the work. My mechanic worked for 7 years for a national bus line when they were running MC-8s and 9s and he knows what he is doing. When I first bought the bus he suggested replacing suspension bushings and other parts then, even though it would have passed a safety without doing so, so that I wouldn't need to deal with them later. That was expensive but I think it was the right thing to do. DaveD | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 2131 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 174.89.177.190  Rating: |
It is frustrating when folks balk at shop rates. Besides the overhead, the heat, the air conditioning, the electricity, the rent/mortgage, the insurance, the machinery, the tools, the employees, the payroll taxes, the health benefits, and, ultimately, somewhere, the PROFITS, the capitalism we all defend on principle, which we then resent when it's our turn to pay... Hopefully, we also get to pay for knowledge, time and effort that we don't have available. I'm also a bit miffed at folks who devalue their rates. Charge fair prices, not charity prices, for your time, talents and consumption of your tools/equipment. If you are going to be a prostitute, best be a high priced call girl, not some toothless streetwalker? happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1608 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 97.226.197.105  Rating: N/A |
Devalued rates are one thing....."If you are going to be a prostitute, best be a high priced call girl, not some toothless streetwalker?"... gouging is quite another. Methinks the question is.....what is a fair deal for both parties? No one know that but the "seller" what is fair for him....and no one knows what is "fair value" as the customer sees it. As a man thinks, so is he, as I have heard it said. From my point of view, Coach Class gets one there as soon as First Class and with the equipment and the same folks "doing the work"; the difference is only in amenities and "position". Like to go First Class...then look to pay for the "goodies". Not necessarily a better "flight". Perspective? I have been (was/still am) in business for a bunch of years and have seen both...I like to sleep nights and like to see my customers do the same. I have been gouged...I have been treated with extreme "kindness". I remember both extremes and take my business accordingly. References (both cases) on request! RCB | ||
| Dal Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 760 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 98.20.60.176 Rating: |
BW..... I may be cheap, but I'm also easy, I never thought of myself as a lot lizard, more like a recreational reptile! I must disagree with you assessment somewhat. First, making a profit for a company is one thing, but what I do isn't for a company, it's for a learning experience for the owner. I don't claim to be an expert mechanic, but just someone who makes stuff work. Sometimes it's fixing the problem as the factory wants it, but then sometimes it's creating something that will work the same or better. Now, having said that, I've worked in shops where I was paid $35 USD/flat rate. I would bring home a VERY good paycheck, but a few times I got to see the invoices for the work that was done and noticed the company billed $100/hr for all the time the vehicle was in the shop, whether it was being worked on or not, (and at some points, I was told to leave it in the shop until the customer picked it up). This could add up in a hurry for a customer who was an owner operator of a small trucking company. Here at the old campground, I charge my $35.00 USD/hr, for EVERY HOUR I ACTUALLY WORK. Not for overhead, (Included in their space rent is the electricity, water, sewer, wifi and a beautiful view of our burning pile. My tools are paid for, and if a user breaks one, either we use another method, or the user buys a new one to replace it. If it was a lifetime guaranteed tool.. it get's replaced without cost. Now, according to your formula, [Hopefully, we also get to pay for knowledge, time and effort that we don't have available. ] I am already being paid for my knowledge, time and effort and equipment. You forgot to mention liability insurance in that paragraph, but, since the customer/client/user is renting space from the campground, according to Texas statute, (and many other states, BTW), they can only sue themselves since they have taken it upon themselves to perform functions for which they aren't qualified. I feel bad for anyone if they get hurt, but really it isn't my fault. I give the best information available to keep them safe, if they choose not to use that information... too bad. I also do not sue people or take them to small claims court. I figure that probably someday, I will meet them again, I have a revolver, a tire iron and at times a bad temper. I figure I might go to jail, but the deadbeat will spend a lot longer recovering. This is why I only take donations when they do their own work. The example I listed wasn't worth my time, and I may seem them again. I never make threats, but I do follow through. Sound harsh? maybe, but it's very satisfying. I also have a couple of questions for you BW, How am I "not" charging a fair price? How am I devaluing my services? Why should a shop that pays flat rate to it mechanics able to charge full hourly rate for all time in the shop.. (see my previous post about anything over 2 minutes being a 1/10th hour charge). I also believe in fair rates and fair charges. If I were running a shop again, I would be charging a much higher rate. I just don't have it in me any more to try to do anything of that sort. I don't want to be responsible for the insurance and I don't want to be responsible for the mechanics or the infrastructure. I just don't want the hassle of dealing with people, since I'm not good at it. | ||
| Skip N (Skip)
Registered Member Username: Skip Post Number: 59 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 67.142.165.26  Rating: N/A |
So whats the cost of immortality. 'A mechanic never dies for there are bits and pieces of them on every rig they work on' 35 sounds fair to me for what one gets in return Skip | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 291 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.117.126 Rating: |
I've been watching this thread and resisting the urge to comment but I guess I'm not very good at resisting, I've been piling sawdust, redoing interiors and doing benefits for most anyone that needs something done most of my life, I would think I've built probably several hundred storm windows and installed them and walked away without asking for anything, many of the piles of sawdust I've done were paid for with a cup of coffee, am I a prostitute? maybe, have I taken so much work from the local shops that they are bankrupt? maybe, will I stop? nope. I really don't care if anyone likes what I do or not, this is what I do and if anyone thinks I'm a hooker, well, thats ok too, I sleep well at night, I realize I can't change the world but maybe I can make my corner of it a little nicer. I realize this approach may not work for everyone, but it works for me and thats enough for me at this time, I'm not a rich person or even a well off person but my needs are met and my wants are secondary, it just makes me feel good to do a benefit that gives something to somebody that they need, or a warmer house to an older person who might be able to ditch that robe and run around the house naked in january for the first time in years, maybe I should rethink that part, but I'm not in this to make money and I don't really care. (Message edited by cody on October 25, 2011) | ||
| Donald P H (Eagle19952)
Registered Member Username: Eagle19952 Post Number: 91 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 75.202.75.229 Rating: N/A |
OK here's a thought, the Society of automotive Engineers are who determine flat rate. These rates are determined by highly qualified vehicle specific mech/techs with surgically clean tools and parts layed out in trays.Then they average 4-6 completions. I defy 98% of all so called top dollar flat rate shops to have all the special tools and experiance to garner top money. The enthusiast charging 30-40-50$ maybe reasonable,or perhaps more than the "big" flat rate ill equipt shop.... just a thought to ponder. | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 292 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.117.126 Rating: N/A |
Interesting thought, one example might be a friends shop near me, him and his son run the shop and do all the work, both are excellent mechanics and they charge a flat rate of 50 an hour, chances are both will be working on the car or truck but the rate is the same, they always do more than expected, for instance, jamie had hit a deer and broke the headlight, we had the new replacement housing on the floor in the back of her jeep, the jeep was in for other work but they took the time to put the headlight in, the final bill didn't make mention of the light and was 30 dollars less than the quote. These guys are booked at least 2 weeks ahead, the local "big" dealership is a GM dealership and sells new and used cars and trucks, they have only 2 bays compared to my friends 4 bays and you can get an appointment with them at any point you want, an advantage to J&J Repair is that joes son worked for an rv dealership for several years before his dad opened up the repair shop so he is well versed in almost anything from your dodge truck to your onan generator, but thats what you often find up here when you look beyond the big signboards out front and these guys are certified in almost every aspect of automotive repair and also fairly well versed in the big diesels too. | ||
| Dal Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 763 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 98.20.60.176 Rating: N/A |
Donald, you are correct... although SAE only uses new equipment for testing. People with new cars don't go to non-factory shops. The unfortunate thing is that while the mechanic and the shop may not be top rate, they have to get a rate from somewhere. The easiest palce to get those rates is from Petersons, Motors or a couple of other publishers, which all use the SAE standards. Even if the shop and the mechanic are the cream of the crop, they are going to be dealing with a vehicle that is past it's warrantee, which means mud, rust, frozen bolts, frozen nuts, corroded wires, plus "Harry Homeowner" repairs. As has been shown time and again, what is in the book isn't always what real life is. For instance... You have a 50DN with the associated regulator for the start system, but you want it to charge your house system so you change the settings. If the mechanic changes it back to the factory spec. and it eats the house batteries, is it the shop or the tech or the owner fault? This is the problem we run into. Cody.. Flat Rate is a list in a book that most major (and many minor) shops go by. Your example is a bit different. What your shop is charging is their "flat rate" meaning they don't charge more or less for a service. Flat Rate by the book is actually the time SAE technicians took to do a job on a new vehicle with no other underlying problems. Big difference. Shop Mechanics in many shops get paid from the "Flat Rate Guide" no matter how long it takes them to do a job. For instance.. 1984 S-10, V6, Auto, oil pressure sensor, (not sending unit), calls for 6.4 hours (IIRC), and I can change it in about 25 minutes. SAE requires jacking the engine up and removing the exhaust manifold. Our way is to jack it up, remove the LFW and cut a hole in the fender well with a die grinder, insert a 3/8" drive extension with the appropriate sensor socket on it and swap out the bad for a good. Weld back a chunk of steel and spray some under coating on it. Should the customer be charged for the Flat rate or what amount of time it actually took. It sounds like your shop charges for what the job actually took to do. Good For Them! | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 293 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.117.126 Rating: |
Dallas, your right but what I'm talking about is a local term I guess, what your calling flat rate we call book rate and what we call flat rate is the per hour shop charge, I'm not sure if it's a state requirement for licensed shops but in all of them up here you'll see a sign on the wall that says the labor rate that the shop charges, thats what we call the flat rate, what we call book rate is what the book says a job should take in hours and the way some shops up here deal with it is if the book rate says 5 hours and the shop charges 100 per hour flat rate then the labor will be 500 dollars, we missuse terms up here all the time lol but as long as the only ones we're corn fusing are the tourists then we're ok lol. Mechanics here in michigan have to be certified by the state and those certifications posted, then the state wants the guys to be certified in brakes or in transmissions or something else and the states position is that before a mechanic can work on a particular item they have to be certified in it, makes for a real mess at times but is interesting reading material on the walls, (nobody in this area cares about the wallpaper, we all know the mechanics and if they are any good or not lol). | ||
| Skip N (Skip)
Registered Member Username: Skip Post Number: 60 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 67.142.165.30 Rating: N/A |
OK I'll be serious for just a sec. I spent 8yrs working under a flat rate system for Cat dealerships. Trust me a competent mechanic can make flat rate and if you can't you will be down the road. Though it varies redo percentages can get you the road also. Time and material type work I have done since seems to still be within the norms. I have seen the pluses and minuses of both systems so to me it is a matter of customer perception of are they getting a fair deal and competent work. One can charge what the market will bare or what they feel appropriate doesn't really matter as long as both sides of the transaction are happy. Skip | ||
| Dal Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 764 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 75.91.198.45 Rating: N/A |
Skip, I agree completely. Unfortunately, what the dealership pays the mechanic and what they actually charge the customer can be two completely different things. Another for instance: Around 1992 I had a nice little KW K100E with a Cat 3406B, RTOO 13, 3.36 rears. It originally came with a Cummins BCIII that one of my drivers blew up and a RT9. The battery box was in the same place it had always been, the cables from the battery box were moved around a tiny bit, (about a 1" difference). I went to the Cat dealer in Louisville to have a charging problem fixed, figuring a battery was fubar. I had checked the batteries earlier and one was completely dry. The mechanic that did the work was a friend of mine and had driven for me and also worked on the truck before he went to work for Cat, again. My bill was in the $1900 range when I got the truck loose from them. The diagnoses was a bad battery and a poor ground cable. My friend that did the work was making $40/hr/FR as a diagnostic tech, and got paid for .75 hours FR. The work he did was to check the charging system, determine the battery was bad and clean the cable connector of the green crud. He showed me his work order log sheet to prove it. Cat charged me 18 hours @ 85$/hr plus the battery and a new custom cable with terminals crimped on, plus tax, plus battery disposal fee. I took it to small claims and lost because the representative argued that the unit was not original to the serial number of the truck and they had to re-route the cables. Since I didn't have photos of the cables before and after, I was denied my claim. Oh, and when I worked as a Diagnostic tech for a major repair shop, I normally exceeded my 40 hour work week. It's not hard to do. Sometimes I could make 70 or 80 hours in a 40 hour week, other times I would be within 10 or 15 minutes of my 40 hours... it just depended on the week and the jobs. I seldom came in under 38 hours. Call backs were a real threat to your lively hood. More than 4 call backs in 3 months was auto-dismiss. 8 in a year was also. We were told to document, document, document... and when in doubt, document again. The only problem I ever had was with a BMW 325I that had an intermittent short in the ignition. It took me 3 tries to find that one, turned out to be a wire corroded inside it's jacket from the switch. Customer was happy, I was happy and the shop was happy. It also took me 3 months to find it with no charge to the customer until it was fixed right. Cody, that is the crux of the matter... customers see "Flat rate" and think that is what the mechanic makes. What the shop charges that's posted is also the "Flat Hourly Rate", but different than what the shop pays the employee. All that is is a guarantee that what is on the wall is what the shop will charge you, not what they pay out. It's kind of like the company store... The snap-on guy comes in, has all kinds of bright shiny tools and sells them to the mechanic. The shop (sometimes), will guarantee payment to the Snap-on dealer, but takes it out of the mechanics wages. When the mechanic quits or is fired, the shop checks his toolbox for the tools owed for and removes them. He then sells or returns them to the dealer for an amount agreed upon by the two parties. Even if the mechanic only has a dollar left to pay on $10K worth of tools, he can lose all of them in the blink of an eye. For years, I kept up my ASE certifications, but since I don't work on anything other than my old Detroits anymore, it isn't worth it. I expect I'll never be able to work in a shop again, because of my physical limitations and because I drink way more than is good for anyone. Doesn't bother me. I just don't give a rat's patootie any more. (Edit: BTW, ASE and SAE are two different groups, and they are not always mutually inclusive). (Message edited by Dallas on October 27, 2011) | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 294 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.117.126 Rating: N/A |
I know what your saying, I've decided that I really no longer care what people think, I do what makes me happy and if they object then they can deal with it, my needs are met so far by my pension, not my wants but my needs are met, I got turned down by the medical group on the heart net, they told me I'm a bad risk, I guess they only want to document successes. The doc told me there is nothing more he can do, that I should enjoy life and do the best I can and he'll try to make me comfortable, comfortable would involve the swedish bikini team but he neglected that part. But I'm happy as a bug out here in the woods and thats what matters to me. | ||
| scott kneifel (Kneifels)
Registered Member Username: Kneifels Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 69.95.122.235 Rating: N/A |
its pretty sad that it happens but some people are just that way and everything always makes a complete circle.my dad always said as long as both parties are happy than its a good deal.i think its awesome to help people but some ruin it for us by putting the screws to us. | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 295 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.117.126 Rating: N/A |
Scott, a good example of some people putting the screws to us is the idiot that turned me in for making a few sites for traveling buses to stop and enjoy without having to fork out 30 to 50 a night. Dallas is probably never going to be a rich guy driving a white cadillac with long horns on the hood of it thru his turning wrenches but maybe some young kid like me will learn where the oil fill is and I'll never shut down merrilat cabinetts by building that corner unit for the meds in helga's mc9's bathroom, I guess there are always going to be people that brag about paying 120 an hour to get a burned out clearance light bulb replaced but there will also be poor guys like me that can't afford 120 an hour and head to walmart to buy the bulb. The key thing to remember is that we're busnuts and hard as we might try, we'll probably never get promoted to trailer trash, so our reality is we'll be stuck using truck stops for the night and never have that nice trailer park to live in like they do. | ||
| scott kneifel (Kneifels)
Registered Member Username: Kneifels Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 69.95.122.235 Rating: N/A |
we are definately busnuts.i learned from the school of hard knocks and do 90% of my own repairs.i feel everyones pain and also like to see everyone succeed at transforming their coach into an rv.its a labor of love and worth every bit of it.i tip my hat to all of us that are capable of living the dream. |
