| Author | Message | ||
| Robert V (141.149.236.45)
Rating: |
We are in the process of planning a Mobile Command Post for a county here in NY. We are presently looking at a 1986 Neoplan AN430, 6v92TA, V731 ATEC for the conversion. The shorter 430 length will give us better mobility. The bus we are presently looking at has all systems in working order. There are a few questions I have? 1. Will the V731 Allison accept a PTO unit for either a PTO or Hydraulic Generator? 2. Will the bus heating system be sufficient for NY winters? 3. The V731 has a 3 speed lockup converter, what exactly does it do? Are there any issues with the Neoplan I should be aware of? Thanks Bob V. | ||
| FAST FRED (4.245.128.43) Rating: N/A |
Most DD have an unused power take off pad that is unused, and can be hooked to a moderate load. 10 or 20 HP is fine , the DD dealer will have hyd packages ect. Unless your "emergency" status lets you to flaunt the air polution laws , you will be illegal in NY in 3 to 5 min of operation stopped. I would sugest a gen set optimised to your loads . This will alow a proper heater , although a DD at high idle WILL make enough heat for a real NY winter. None of the usual issues with a NEoplan will concern a vehicle that doesn't go 10,000 miles a year. FAST FRED | ||
| bowlingshoegiverouter (63.185.97.104) Rating: N/A |
mobile command ??  YEAH SURE | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A |
Neat idea of a mobile command post. Curious as to which agency, or is that really important. Volunteer Fire Department? Very cool. Might suggest if a short(er) overall length is desirable, then perhaps a model coach or bus with higher ground clearance may be a better choice. This MAY preclude your excellent suggestion. How about a retired ex-schoolie with a chassis more likely to get where the vehicle needs going? Good luck. | ||
| Robert V (70.16.49.133)
Rating: N/A |
This bus will be used for a County-Wide Command Unit up in Herkimer County, NY and will be equipped with a floodlight tower and remote controlled video camera mast. The dealer just called and threw me a curve, they just had two 1986 Gillig Phantoms come off lease and are available for about the same $$$$. The Gillig has a 6v92 DDEC and Voith as compared to the Neoplan they offered with a 6v92TA and Allison v731 ATEC. The dealer said that he considers the Gillig to be a better constructed unit... Since my bus knowledge is minimal, I'll turn to you pros for an opinion. My present mobile command vehicle is dying a slow but sure death and I need to make a decision. Thanks for all your help.. Bob V. | ||
| jose (63.190.72.91) Rating: N/A |
May I ask a question or two ? Are You in a rual area ? Can You get a 40 foot,102 in. wide bus down rual gravel lanes and crooked farm drive ways ? The reason I ask several years ago, our rual fire dept. bought 2 big tamden axle fire trucks, really nice big city firetrucks. The only problem is they can't turn in to a lot of gravel driveways on narrow gravel rds. They send a lot smaller Ford cabover about a 1980's something to do most of the fire fighting. { part of the reason I believe, they don't want to scratch the paint on brush along the driveways } Oh well tax payers money | ||
| ralph7 (208.148.72.182) Rating: N/A |
First will the unit have munisipal plates, IF so your group qualifies for a special program, meaning a used bus before it goes to public auction, and they are not junk. e-mail me if ??? ralph7 | ||
| Johnny (63.159.217.39) Rating: N/A |
What's wrong with the current mobile CP vehicle? | ||
| Robert V (70.16.49.133)
Rating: N/A |
Let me try to answer all the questions at once.. The buses we are considering are 30 footers not 40's, so manuverablity is not a huge issue but still gives us the interior space we need. Shouldn't be utilizing a Command Vehicle in too many farm yards, at least we haven't to this point. The vehicle will carry "Offical" Plates, which is NY version of a Municipal Plate. Our current Command Vehicle has too many problems to even consider a refurb. Besides we have out grown the size. So Gillig or Neoplan??? What about the Voith Tranny??? Don't know too much about them.. Thanks again, Bob V. | ||
| FAST FRED (4.245.230.138) Rating: N/A |
Gillig is a longer lasting platform than Neoplan, by design. FAST FRED | ||
| Ian Giffin (Admin) (69.156.209.126)
Rating: N/A |
Hi Robert, One of the "grandfathers" of this hobby, George Myers, is converting a Gillig Phantom. You may be wise to look him up and find out the reasons he bought his. http://www.coach-builder.com Regards, Ian www.busnut.com | ||
| Ian Giffin (Admin) (69.156.209.126)
Rating: N/A |
Jose, The Gillig only has two axles, I believe, and a mobile command post rarely, if ever, sets up near the "hot zone" of an occurrance. The standard is that they only need to be close, ideally with a view of the occurrance (but not absolutely), so there would likely be no need for a command vehicle to turn down a narrow driveway. Buildings burn on all 4 sides, so even if command were getting warm with the flames, two sides of the occurrance would still be impossible to see. The ideal position for command would be in a chopper - likely not cost effective at Robert's department. The rural fire dept you refer to, I'll make a wager on... no consultation with anyone in the fire service. Probably a part-time department and likely the township CEO, not the part-time fire chief, wrote the specs on the vehicles, thinking more about the Santa Claus parade than if the trucks had to get to his own home. Tax payers money, indeed!! :-) Ian www.busnut.com | ||
| Mark R. Obtinario (Cowlitzcoach) (204.245.250.5)
Rating: N/A |
A thirty foot Gillig would be a pretty handy vehicle with lots of go. The only real concerns I would have with any city bus set up to do what you want to do has to do with ground clearance and engine placement. Transit buses were designed and built for urban/suburban roads. They aren't the best design when it comes to rural roads and they are a poor choice if you have to go off of the pavement. A good used front engine school bus may actually be a better choice if you anticipate going off of the pavement. School buses were designed and built to be cheap to keep and to be able to travel on any road in the country. Some even came from the factory with a driven front axle making rough country travel very easy. Only you can really determine what is the best choice for you. Just don't get hung up on the Gillig or Neoplan just because they happen to be available right now. Good luck. Mark O. P.S. For my money, I would purchase the Gillig and leave the Neoplan alone. MRO | ||
| FAST FRED (4.245.185.254) Rating: N/A |
Attempting to opreate them main engine as a powerplant will get you in loads of troubble in NY state whewre there are laws aganst ideling for more than a few min.(at least for us commoners) A good genset and std heater will work far better than hi ideling a big DD to death for a 5 hp air cond , or a bit of heat FAST FRED | ||
| Robert V (141.149.217.123) Rating: N/A |
If I can find a good place for a deisel genset I will use one, it certainly is the best option. However, I need to leave the PTO or Hydralic Unit option open. PTO gensets are becoming the standard in emergency vehicles, which generally are running anyways at emergency scenes... | ||
| FAST FRED (4.245.212.42) Rating: N/A |
The unused flange on the engine can be hooked to a clutch (Klutchmaster) to pull about 15 hp should you need hyd power for something. FAST FRED | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (65.40.153.206)
Rating: N/A |
I agree with Fred, I'd stay away from a PTO off the Allison, and check out a belt driven unit, I've seen some nifty belt driven underhood Gen/Welders. Brian | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A |
Sorry everyone and I do hates to says it, but a mobile command post is SUPPOSED to be nearly on top of all the action. Since poop/stuff always seems to happen just about anywhere, the chassis would best be selected to be able to go where needed. This may preclude the choice of a bus designed primarily for urban use on hard paved roads free of debris, junk... ....garbage, wreckage, bodies, tornado or flood damage, etc., etc.. Not suggesting you need or desire all wheel drive... ...but perhaps a large chassis with adequate off road manners conductice to commanding large scale incidences... ...with future expandablility. Not to bore everyone with specific cabilities but only to suggest maybe a truck type chassis. Again...has anyone considered a short wheel base ex-schoolie? I know they are somewhat cheap, but the application... ...may not eat up the road miles. Perhaps you are asking the wrong people. Not all of us are retired fire... ...service with multiple college degrees and years of experience. I know I am not. Maybe you need to try... ....some of the volunteer (bless 'em) or paid fire boards on the net selling specific used apparatus. Maybe your district can buy something... ...used that will already be outfitted the way you need it. Sounds like you already have a time crunch situation. Good luck. | ||
| RJ Long (67.181.211.253) Rating: N/A |
Henry - Fresno PD has a mobile command post built out of one of the transit department's retired "New Look" Flxibles, which is fine for their application - it never really leaves the metropolitan area. I would tend to agree with Mark's suggestion that a skoolie might make a better chassis to work off of in Robert's situation, especially since it seems that this is a more rural application. Robert - IMHO, start looking for a Thomas or Blue Bird skoolie, preferrably one of their rear engine models. You'll probably find one in a similar price range to the Neo or Gillig. Would also suggest you stick to one with an Allison automatic, Voith's are a good transmission, but very, very few people know how to work on them, and their electronics can be cantankerous. Ralph 7's suggestion is an excellent one, btw. Fresno PD got ther Flx for $1 from the transit dept thru this program. That's right, one buck. Such a deal, eh? Worth looking into, contact Ralpy directly for more info. HTH, RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| Tony (64.215.196.143) Rating: N/A |
Henry I wish I had the opportunity to get a used fire engine, those things almost always have a good low mileage engine and Allison Trans that we could make do In our Buses. Tony | ||
| Robert V (12.152.140.209)
Rating: N/A |
I'd like to thank everyone for their suggestions. I have decided one the Gillig Phanton which has better ground clearance over the Neoplan and newer version Detroit, it already has a paint scheme that I can use with little alteration. Command vehicles generally don't go into the heart of an incident, they stay away in the safe zone. I wouldn't be afraid to take even a coach on 85-90 percent of the roads in the county. When we are done with the conversion I'll post the finished product.. Thanks again, Bob |
