| Author | Message | ||
| LABryan (63.198.141.130)
Rating: N/A |
I'm picking up my bus this week -- '90 Prevost converted by Country Coach. (Yeah, I know it's not a "real" conversion, but it works for me.) I'll be hauling a bunch of kids and need seatbelts right away. Behind driver and jump seats I have 2 center facing Flexsteel sofas which fold to make beds, and behind that on right I have a booth dinette which also makes a bed. I am planning on using plain vanilla belts (i.e. no pretensioners or retactors) and it looks like there is enough space in the gap between back and bottom cushions to hold belt heads when not in use, but I am unsure about attachment points and methods. Does anyone have experience or suggestions with this type of installation? Are there any specs for this install other than what comees with the belts? Comments about belts and safety in general would be welcome. Thanks for sharing your experience. I've got lots to learn! Bryan | ||
| TWO DOGS (63.185.97.142) Rating: N/A |
you aren't planing on mounting them to wood are you... | ||
| Robert Wood (Bobwoodsocal) (4.47.58.156)
Rating: N/A |
Bryan, if it were me i would not put seat belts in. They are not required by law in a bus. When I was a kid my Dad had a few different motorhomes, my fave was a 34 ft pace arrow. the nicest thing was moving around while underway, even using the bathroom. if you have small kids you are trying to restrain, that's another thing. my .02 worth, all the best, Bob | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.79.46)
Rating: N/A |
"I am unsure about attachment points and methods. Does anyone have experience or suggestions with this type of installation?" It's my understanding that they need to bolted through the floor, and the underside needs to be backed up with steel. I have always seen them backed up with 2X2 plates, but I think whopping big fender washers would work fine. "They are not required by law in a bus. " Is this true? (Please, somebody convince me it is!) I have been told that you have to have belts everywhere passengers could sit, to the extreme of having them on the bed (Hey, someone told me that I didn't make it up). Are we caught in semantics? They are not "Busses" once they no longer carry fare-paying passengers. Gary | ||
| TWO DOGS (65.179.201.110) Rating: N/A |
different states are different...if your bus?or car did not have them as original equipment ,they are not required....If I were hauling a bunch of kids around...#! would be at least one responcable adult back there to keep them seated...some kid running around back there would RUN through the windshield in a panic stop,#2, I'd consider a cargo net about two feet behind the driver stretched across ...but what really would concern me,would be the parent takeing everything I own because his kid got hurt on my bus | ||
| Ed (4.225.103.73)
Rating: N/A |
I would use a cargo net dehind the drivers seat across coach belts or not. I don't know if the prevost had a side rail as my eagle did for seats. If it did and they might have left it in and just covered it. It would be possible to drill and tap and use a fine thread bolt to attach belts. Dinette area is probally over luggage bay for easy acess through floor. Ed | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.79.46)
Rating: N/A |
"different states are different" I know this is true... "if your bus?or car did not have them as original equipment ,they are not required..." This is not always true, some states make you retro-fit seatbelts into vehicles that never came with them, especially for Minors, as you say, different states are different. On my bus, it's last duty was a worker transport. It had a bazillion seatbelts in it. I'm baffled by the logic, to take workers to pick lettuce, we need seatbelts, to take our kids to school we do not. But of course, Common Sense IS long dead. Oh, and there is no way I'd transport a bunch of other people's kids IE: YouthGroup, whatever... Gary | ||
| TWO DOGS (63.185.80.196) Rating: N/A |
If you have a cargo net...everybody is better off,say you strap 3 kids to a flexsteel...NOW...you have a 200 pound sofa with 600 pounds of kids strapped to it....heading at 60 mph...to mash your head like a pimple...naaaa...no kids in my bus....I can see a lawsuit right around the corner... | ||
| LABryan (64.165.235.119)
Rating: N/A |
I guess I should have said "a few" kids. And no, I don't plan on hauling kids if their parents aren't also on board. Perhaps simplest solution is to just pile them all on the bed in back and use the cargo net to hold them down... I was planning to mount through the floor and I thought about using big washers as Gary suggests. Seems like it should work, but the 2x2 plates are probably better. Dinette is partly above generator bay. I am somewhat concerned about poking holes in the top of that compartment. Maybe I should just follow the advice of the big, permanent sticker on the dinette table which says something to the effect of "Do not sit here while coach in motion". Thanks for your input. Bryan | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat) (68.7.217.217)
Rating: N/A |
I've actually always wondered about the usefulness of seatbelts in a bus from a purely physics standpoint... I really can't imagine that seatbelts would help anyone in an impact that stops a bus as quickly as a car could be stopped in an accident. Maybe that's why many states don't require them....???? There's a big difference in what happens between a 1,200 pound car and a 27,000 pound bus decelerating at the same rate... in fact I'd think that not much could stop a bus quickly enough to warrant seatbelts, except running into a mountain side or a concrete fortress, or head on into another bus or maybe a train, at which point what's the use because you're already squished. Certainly the driver and copilot would perish, and anyone inside probably would be killed from flying water tanks, sofas and refirgerators hitting them from behind, seatbelts or not... ..So I wonder... | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell) (66.81.213.234)
Rating: N/A |
Interesting thought; school buses don't have them. Must be some reason for it. I've heard a lot of reasons why: cost, driver couldn't keep them in it, etc. Recently viewed a Newell, from the early 80's, lost the brakes on a 10% grade (jake would not engage for some reason), rolled it down a 45'embankment when he left the roadway. Nothing left of the bus from floor up; it was gone, in the canyon. He, banged up and bruised real bad, her: several broken bones and some healable internal injury. My understanding was 1 had a belt on, the other did not, don't know which did or did not. After seeing it, most wondered how either survived. I'm not sold on them being what they are touted as. To Bryan's ? Lock em'in one of the cargo bays. Hell, you don't want all them rug rats messing up your interior with coke, ice cream, and candy. Any of the parents object, lock them in there too. I don't really know how the law applies to a private bus, except for small children, and they are required to be restrained, at least in CA. I presume the laws that apply to any other private passenger vehicle apply to private buses and motorhomes. I know that all newer manufactured units have seat belts in seating areas, some even at the dinette. They don't necessarily have to bolt thru the floor; depends on what they are attached to, like a seat that IS bolted thru the floor. | ||
| FAST FRED (4.245.149.71) Rating: N/A |
Seat belts aren't in Skoolies as the distance between the seats is so short that the seats are expected to catch/stop the kids after a foot or two. "Inherently safe design" , additionally the Skoolie's can roll over without the roof colapsing better than most vehicles. FAST FRED | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (69.68.96.164)
Rating: N/A |
Bryan, if you do add belts at any position, the belts should attach to the flexsteel... Anchor belts attach the flexsteel to the floor. I plan on using 3" diam. fender washers through the floor and 1/2 bolts. Brian | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (68.79.122.176)
Rating: N/A |
"Perhaps simplest solution is to just pile them all on the bed in back and use the cargo net to hold them down..." Have you considered Duct Tape? Gary | ||
| joe (67.242.199.237) Rating: N/A |
I’ve researched this a good bit. Seat belts are a good idea and I think are required in the driver and co-pilot seats. In a converted bus accident a couple of years ago, the driver and his friend went thru the windshield and then were run over by the bus. So I always put on the belt. I built my dinette of steal, bolted it to the floor, & the belts to the seat structure. The typical RV dinette is a simple box structure made of particleboard or ply and I have seen belts attached to the particle board sides! I have found DOT standards on the WEB that address belt anchor requirements but I wouldn’t bother. This is what I suggest: Use belts on the driver and co-pilot seats minimally; anchor belts to floor with fender washers (& bolts-n-nuts); ask your passengers to remain seated while under way; have fun. Joe 4106-2119 | ||
| degojo (68.35.160.48) Rating: N/A |
Lap belts and children? Not a good idea as they cause lower spinal cord injuries. I'd rather have them bounce around than sever their spinal cords. Happens when their lower half is secured but their upper half bends 90 degrees and is flung forward. | ||
| LABryan (64.165.235.119)
Rating: N/A |
Thanks for this excellent exchange. It prompted me to do more research, which provided interesting results. First, in California where I live, effective 7/1/04, all new school busses must have lap and shoulder restraints for all passengers. See, here: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc27316_5.htm Cal. VC also requires seat belt use for all passengers over age 16 (section 27315) and use of approved child safety restraint (car seat) for all kids under age 6 and under 60 lbs. (section 27360) These sections apply to all "motor vehicles" which is defined to be any "passenger vehicle, motor truck or truck tractor". It specifically includes farm labor vehicles (as Gary found out) but excludes taxis and limos, which must still make belts available. Unclear whether it applies to "housecars" and commercial busses, but "housecars" are defined as motor vehicles in other parts of the code. I guess kids between 6 and 16 do not have to be belted at all. Seems strange, though, doesn't it. Finally, section 27314.5 requires a sticker on old vehicles sold with lap only belts which reiterates Degojo's point -- that lap only belts are dangerous for kids as compared to lap/shoulder combo belts. Something I did not know. So, now I'm re-thinking. I think I will try to install lap/shoulder combo belts on the outboard positions of my sofas and lap only belts in the center, like in the back seat of a car from the 80s. Dinette will get lap only or none at all. Thanks again for this exchange of ideas. Bryan | ||
| mel 4104 (170.224.224.134) Rating: N/A |
well if you can afford a 90 prevostyou might have enough money to pay legal bills for the next year.because the parent that see's that but and JR> just hurt his little finger will end up coming to see about it and will also see your house and car. so off they will go to get a liar for hire and the new owner's of these items is about to happen. your best friend will drag you into court if jr. gets hurt and you will lose every thing ..answer NO kids in my bus without parent writen consent that includes grand kids. | ||
| Tim Brandt (Timb) (12.8.192.60)
Rating: N/A |
My question is how useful is a lap or lap/shoulder belt on a sofa which is mounted 90* to the plane of motion. Seems to be outside the design parameters of that type of restraint. Just go for a 5 point "simpson"  | ||
| LABryan (63.198.141.130)
Rating: N/A |
In response to Mel4104, I appreciate your opinions. For what its worth: 1) I actually can't afford the bus, but I got a loan to indulge myself and to have fun with my family anyway. Aint that the American Way? 2) I won't live in fear of lawyers. I govern my actions by my moral principles and an effort to follow the law, which usually match up. In this case I am actually concerned about the safety of my passengers, not whether I might get sued. 3) IMHO anybody who gets behind the wheel of a 30,000 pound machine should have lots of liability insurance anyway. 4) Better get a lawyer to check out your written consent form. Courts don't like liability waivers, and even major ski resorts with big law firms have trouble making them enforceable. Bryan | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.79.46)
Rating: N/A |
"Courts don't like liability waivers..." Yeah like: you knew such and such activity was going to be dangerous, so much so you had everyone sign waivers, therefore you are negligent. Further proof that you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. Gary | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell) (66.81.63.75)
Rating: N/A |
Bryan: Thanks for the research on CA VC. I presumed that the laws that apply to cars or passenger vans would also apply to private buses, otherwise defined as "motor vehicles". Based on that, I purchased lap belts for one of the couches and a chair in the LR (not installed as yet); but then, 99% of the time there are only the two of us. In your case, I agree that seat belts would be a worthwhile investment, if for no other reason than compliance. Like you, being sued is not my major concern, as it appears to be among so many people that rely on the overly-sensationalized results of a very few trials. The facts of the course of litigation in most auto accidents and personal injury cases does not warrant such paranoia. | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (67.136.241.182)
Rating: N/A |
Oh come on Gary S., we all KNOW your Crown Super Coach will go at least 90 mph...maybe a little bit more. What would happen if you rolled the old girl? We plan on seatbelts on all the assigned underway... seating and may go to a seatbelt for the potty. Anyway, I can think of many reason why seatbelts SHOULD be a good idea. CROWNS FOREVER!! | ||
| joe (67.241.230.135) Rating: N/A |
For what its worth, the dinette I built has lap & shoulder belts and allows me to buckle in child seats for my little ones. works pretty good. joe 4106 | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat) (68.7.217.217)
Rating: N/A |
Hee hee Henry, I'm NOT gonna roll her! Geez, would that make a great video though, rolling a crown at 90mph!!! Truthfully though, she only does 85... | ||
| Johnny (65.177.177.180) Rating: N/A |
"Seat belts aren't in Skoolies as the distance between the seats is so short that the seats are expected to catch/stop the kids after a foot or two." Not anymore--as of 2004, all school buses in the US are required to have seat belts (and, strangely, air conditioning). | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (68.79.122.176)
Rating: N/A |
" and, strangely, air conditioning)." Oh for chrissakes. Yeah, that makes sense. Gary | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (67.136.241.239)
Rating: N/A |
I think the key here may be that this new Commiefornia (er...California) school bus law says "Type 2 activity buses". Ahh...what exactly is a type two bus? I do not know. Maybe it is a small, passenger van type school bus. If soosss, then it may kinda make a little bit of sense protecting the kiddies. But...if a type two bus... ....means the big ones, then I haven't got a clue why they inacted such a new law. But then I haven't got a clue in general either. And....finally, I believe Gary S is sandbagging us. (again) The math works out to a cool 103 mph at 2500 rpm and he has the power! CROWNS FOREVER! |