| Author |
Message |
Nelson Thomas (205.188.116.136)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 12:34 am: | |
Webasto, Aqua Hot, Pro Heat which is the best or are they all about the same? Pros & cons? Is maintz complicated or with some moderate skills can they be self serviced?
Thanks Nelson |
Doug (68.83.48.39)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 7:40 am: | |
I prefer the webasto airtop series.
low fuel use and elec draw, deisel fired forced air heat
no maint to date, three in the family with the oldest two being 25 years old |
Jack In KC (65.26.0.37)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 3:44 pm: | |
Hydro-hot is Aqua-hot’s little brother. It costs less and is not as pretty (no ss). The engine heat is optional on the Hydro-hot. |
David Anderson (168.215.176.185)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 5:53 pm: | |
I love my Webasto DB2010 system, but I have had some problems. In March I got an airlock in the system and melted my burner flue. I will write that off to my own engineering, and I'm still scratching my head as to how that happened. I may have let my expansion tank get a bit low on coolant after the initial startup and all the burps had not bubbled from the system. That hasn't happened since, and I now check it with a dipstick before trips.
Webasto recommends changing the nozzle and filter, annually. I did that last month when replacing the burner flue. I used it about an hour in Leadville CO a couple of weeks ago and it started smoking profusely. I had to shut it
down. Great, now I had no block heater. That bus was a bear to start in 38 degree temp.
I couldn't get it to stop smoking like the narrow gauge railroad locomotive, so I gave up and sent the head to a Webasto service center. The tech called me and said the nozzle was fouled. I found out if you touch the tip with your hands while installing it will foul it, and there is no way to clean it. I wish Webasto would include that warning in the replacement kit.
Anyway, that was a costly lesson. Hopefully, I have jumped beyond the learning curve for this system. It is a great system when it works, nice cozy warm air, no stinky heated coils in the coach, abundant hot water, and great block heating, and superb coach heating with the engine heat exchanger while going down the road.
However, there is diesel exhaust outside, but I have not found it to be much an issue near the coach exterior. If I'm near other rigs and use the heater a lot, I put a vertical pipe extension on the tailpipe and exhaust it above the coach roof, up and away. I am considerate of my neighbors and check to make sure I'm not stinking up their air. I've never had a complaint from my neighbors, so I guess I'm doing it right.
David |
Geoff (Geoff) (66.238.120.50)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 10:12 pm: | |
David-- your problems sound similar to the one's I've had with my Webasto, and like your problems, it has always been "owner error"! Except instead of burning out nozzles and burner flues, I have burned out the overheat fuse 3-4 times because of an air locked system. Now I am very carefull to bleed the air out the heater pipes after working on the heating system before I start the Webasto!
I was unable to use my Webasto during the MAK Gathering at the Caverns 2004, and it snowed on me in Flagstaff (click on my name above). However, even though it was only 30 degrees outside my 6V92TA fired up immediately even without the Webasto warming it up.
I have also adapted a vertical pipe for the Webasto exhaust, and love the heat it gives out-- since the heater pipes run along the wall, after a couple of hours the heat just radiates from the wall and heater boxes and makes the bus cozy without fans.
For Nelson-- my system consists of a Scholastic Series Webasto hooked directly into the bus driver's heater pipes along with a couple of heater boxes and a heat exchanger water heater (also electric/ or propane). The system also heats the engine up directly without a heat exchanger. Follow this link for a schematic of a simple system you can install yourself instead of an Aqua Hot or Hydro Hot:
http://www.vehiclesys.com/Webasto/webasto_school.html
--Geoff
'82 RTS CA |
David Anderson (168.215.176.192)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 12:25 am: | |
Geoff,
A question: What does the system do when you burn out that fuse? When mine failed in March the heater finally just shut down and the toe kick heater fans never came on because the coolant never got above 120 degrees. That is when I knew something was awry.
I turned on the pump and added some distilled water and opened some bleeders and the proper flow returned. I restarted the heater and it worked for the rest of the trip. It wasn't until I got back to Texas while I was doing an annual cleaning that I found my flue had melted. The system had worked fine up to that point. It didn't give another problem until I changed the nozzle. That is where I'm at right now.
David |
Geoff (Geoff) (66.238.120.16)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 8:05 am: | |
As we know, when the heater pipes are airlocked, the hot water won't circulate. What happens on my unit in this situation is the boiler overheats the water and the screw-in overheat fuse on top of the boiler simply burns out shutting down the burner circuit. If I try to start it after that (with a blown fuse), all the Webasto does is start pumping but it never fires, and after a minute or two the whole thing automatically shuts off. When it does this it is not delivering fuel to the burner at all because there is no smoke whatsoever. Also, there doesn't seem to be any damage since it works the same as it always has-- a little smoke when it is cold then it clears up.
--Geoff |
David Anderson (168.215.176.175)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 2:25 pm: | |
Interesting. Mine didn't do that in March. It got very hot and finally shut off, but it didn't heat the water. Sounds like classic air lock as you described. I wonder why it didn't blow the fuse?
About air locks: The piping installation manual makes highlights to avoid droops and rises in the coolant lines. Obviously, this is not avoidable when you loop to the heaters. However, they have bleeder valves. I bled the system several times when installed, but still after months of driving and sitting, somehow I got that air lock. The manual states that all the residual bubbles should travel through the system with the driving, rocking motion of the coach over time. That makes sense, but I still don't see how I had that problem back in March.
Just thinking out loud, but I wonder if a tee in the line at or near the pump or the heater with, say a 1/4" line going to a small storage tank that is at the same static level as the expansion tank. The best way I can describe it is a tank similar to the water tank above my radiator on my Eagle. It has a 1/4" line going to the return pipe near the t-stat on the DD6V92 that will allow any bubbles to float up to the tank, assuring no air in the system.
What do you think? Would a similar setup insure the heater or pump always has coolant and no cavitation could occur?
Just my thoughts.
David |
joe (64.222.165.18)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 9:41 am: | |
Nelson, If I'm not mistaken, the Aqua Hot & Pro Heat both use Webasto heating components. So they are all pretty good I think. The Webasto has one inlet and one outlet for the coolant while the others may have a heat exchanger along with multiple ports for hot water, cabin heat and so on. So the Webasto should cost less.
I have a Webasto 2040 80K btu unit, Works great. I have had to replace the blower motor which is a big $ item.
David, my unit has an overheat fuse but I think I read where some units have a hi temp breaker that re-sets when it cools off. Maybe that is what yours has.
Vehicle Systems sells an expansion tank. It is to be used when the engine circuit is isolated from the webasto heating circuit. I asked Vehicle Systems tech support about bleeding and they told me that all air would be purged with the engine driven pump along with the Webasto 2040 pump moving coolant. Maybe the 2040 pump is bigger than the one on your units? I have never bled the system and have had no problems with air.
Joe 4106-2119 |
Joe (64.222.165.18)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 12:59 pm: | |
Geoff, Can you please elaborate on what you mean by "burner flues"
I just re-installed my Webasto with a new distribution manifold and was going to use a 4" section of exhaust pipe for the 'flue'
Thanks, Joe
4106-2119 |
David Anderson (168.215.176.213)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 5:19 pm: | |
Thanks Joe,
I'm glad you've had basically a trouble free operation. That gives me hope that the system will do better after I get my "education" on doing things right.
The burner flue in the DB2010 is the combustion chamber that the nozzle actually sticks into, inside the heat exchanger. The housing of it is aluminium and the flue is steel. It is a replaceable item. You have to pull it out to clean the heat exchanger of soot.
David |
David Anderson (168.215.176.192)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 12:05 am: | |
Got my Webasto head back from Sure Marine Service in Seatle WA, today. Hooked it all up and $110 later, it works like a charm. No more smoke. All they did was change the nozzle and let it run for 3 days in their shop. They couldn't find anything else wrong with it. I hope this is the end of my problems with this. It works so well when it works correctly.
I won't know till next winter, however. It's too hot to use it right now.
David |
Jim Ashworth (Jimnh) (172.170.130.111)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 5:59 pm: | |
WOW! The nozzle from Webasto is $14 and from the local plumbing supply $4.50. I guess they charged for 3 days labor letting it run.
These things are not complicated. Your local oil burner man can work on them and tune them up. Surely you can too.
Jim |
David Anderson (168.215.176.200)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 30, 2004 - 2:52 pm: | |
You bet I want to learn to work on them myself, especially at the prices they have to charge. Thanks for the tip on the $4.50 nozzle. However, we have zero "oil burner men" in Texas so it my be a bit difficult to find this in Texas, but next time I will get out the yellow pages and start calling.
Thanks,
David |
Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (65.74.66.104)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 10:24 pm: | |
David, the yellow pages won't be as much help as talking to some people who live where oil fired heat is the norm.
You should try to find out what the numbers are on the nozzle and order a spare to carry with you, because I don't think most heating dealers will have that size sitting on their shelves.
A careful measurement of electrode spacing, and the distance between electrodes and nozzle opening in both directions will give you a lot of the information that you need to service the unit.
If the distance that the nozzle protrudes into the firing chamber is adjustable, you will want that info, too.
There are tune-up kits made for popular burners that would have what would be needed for servicing a furnace, but I don't know how much you will be able to get out of the Webasto dealer, because they don't really want you working on these.
I noticed that no one has mentioned that airlocks can be caused by seeping head gaskets. This is always something you want to guard against if you want to prevent another big bill if or when you develope some combustion leakage.
Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
Suncatcher |
Nelson Thomas (152.163.252.199)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 10:36 pm: | |
Thanks for all of the replies. I found a Pro-Heat on E-bay that I bought for $800. It was new old stock still in the box. I talked with the tech at Pro-Heat and he said that the Pro-Heat had heaver duty components than the other models. He said that models that claim 45,000 BTUs were really stating the potential maximum BTUs. My unit is rated at 30,000 BTUs but he said it was equal to their newer model rated at 45,000. Thanks for all of the information.
Nelson , Knoxville |
David Anderson (168.215.176.195)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2004 - 10:54 pm: | |
Thanks Tom,
I'm not sure what you mean about a seeping head gasket. How or where does that fit into my Webasto system?
David |
Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (65.74.66.104)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 06, 2004 - 2:51 am: | |
David, many people connect their domestic heating systems to the engine for preheating the engine and then use the heat from the engine to heat water to use in the domestic heating.
If you do this, the combustion gases can get into the domestic heating system unless it is fully isolated by a heat exchanger.
One other concern with interconnected systems is that a domestic heating system leak can cause you to be sidelined until a repair is made.
Each item needs to get its proper weight, including any required warnings and labels to keep you out of trouble later on.
Good luck!
Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
Suncatcher |