| Author | Message | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 526 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 66.87.0.18  Rating: N/A |
Sorry to just barge in after this long absence. Oh, I’ve been lurking, just not posting. Lots of reasons for that, mostly health related (not mine, but Tony’s). Anyway, kinda on my own these days and, suddenly, told I have to move the bus. Okay. No big deal, I’m thinking. Main problem was bad batteries, which are now refreshed. Topped up some fluids, etc. and she was ready to start. But then I read some archives about checking the emergency shut-off before starting the bus. One of several below… Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 6:30 pm: ________________________________________ Moe, I would recommend testing your emerg shutoff with the engine not running. This is just as good a test as with it running and there is no chance of damaging the air box or blower gaskets. GusC ------------------- Good idea, I thought, especially since the bus hasn’t been started in several months. So I did and it worked just fine. Re-set it and fired up the bus. Bus started on the first turn but then just chugged and smoked - exactly as though the emergency shut-off was still on. So I went through the drill again: activate shut-off, re-set and start bus. Same result. This has happened several times. Something else: I cannot give it any throttle; it’s like the pedal is locked in the ‘up’ position (only when the bus is running). I feel like I’m missing something really simple. Any clues or ideas? Is anyone near Homestead, FL that might be able to take a look? I wish now I’d just started the thing without checking the shut-off… right now I’m assuming the butterfly flap isn’t opening, but maybe it would have done this anyway? I’m happy to be back aboard and your thoughts are surely welcome. Nellie | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 1314 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 75.224.39.91  Rating: N/A |
Sounds like you lost your prime! Pull the filters and make sure they are full | ||
| Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member Username: Bill_gerrie Post Number: 586 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 216.198.139.38  Rating: N/A |
Nellie Pull the large rubber pipe off the top of the blower housing so you can actually see the emergency stop flap. Make sure it is actually staying off when you reset it. Try and run it with the air intake open (rubber hose still off) just to see if something is blockiing the air off other then the flap. You say the throttle won't respond which is exactly what will happen if you are not getting any air. Good luck. Bill | ||
| Mark Renner (Boomer)
Registered Member Username: Boomer Post Number: 253 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 206.58.200.38  Rating: N/A |
....."it's like the pedal is locked in the up position". Sounds like the fast idle is on. | ||
| George M. Todd (George_todd)
Registered Member Username: George_todd Post Number: 1309 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 76.94.209.14 Rating: N/A |
Nellie, Bill is correct, you are describing the classic symptoms of a closed shutoff. Are you SURE that the flapper shaft turns a full quarter turn from tripped to full reset when you raise it under the latch? Smoke is un-burned fuel, so a loss of prime would be indicated by NO smoke. I feel you were correct in checking the emergency stop after the bus had sat for a long time. This is exactly when a stuck rack from condensation will occur, and now you know your emergency shutoff works, instead of having a runaway engine destroy itself while you are frantically flipping a stop switch that doesn't work! Please check to see that you are actually getting the little cam up under the latch, and it is holding it up. Bill's other suggestion about removing the air inlet pipe has merit for two reasons. One, you can check the actual position of the butterfly with a flashlight. Two, if the air cleaner has been invaded by rodents, or you have a birds nest in the intake, so it is plugged, the engine will run properly with the inlet pipe off, and you can look to the air cleaner for the problem. G | ||
| Bill Holstein (Billmoocow)
Registered Member Username: Billmoocow Post Number: 165 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 24.21.114.17  Rating: N/A |
I second the high idle switch on. | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 2167 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 174.91.141.79  Rating: N/A |
Hold on, the coach has sat for a long time. You need air pressure to get the fast idle to lock the pedal. There won't be any air pressure present. The throttle linkage may be seized. And when it frees up while running, it will go to the floor and won't come back up by itself. Work the pedal with the engine off and lube all the cranks both under the driver and above the transmission where the rods come out of the utility tunnel. Oh, and hi, old friend Nellie! happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Dave Walker (Chrome_dome)
Registered Member Username: Chrome_dome Post Number: 419 Registered: 3-2010 Posted From: 74.41.14.235  Rating: N/A |
Did you reset the switch at the dash after throwing it. Is that what you meant by "I re-set it, or did you go to the back right side and reach in and move the flapper lever until it clicked and stayed in place. If you didn't you are not getting any air to the engine. Chromie | ||
| Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member Username: Bill_gerrie Post Number: 588 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 216.198.139.38 Rating: N/A |
Dave Very good point. Not to belittle Nellie but such a simple thing it cold be over looked with somebody not experienced with the engine. Bill | ||
| Pete/RTS Daytona (Pete_rtsdaytona)
Registered Member Username: Pete_rtsdaytona Post Number: 671 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 184.88.99.113  Rating: N/A |
hopefully this will help  | ||
| Pete/RTS Daytona (Pete_rtsdaytona)
Registered Member Username: Pete_rtsdaytona Post Number: 672 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 184.88.99.113 Rating: N/A |
hmm - maybe this is clearer   | ||
| Brian Evans (Bevans6)
Registered Member Username: Bevans6 Post Number: 107 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 67.71.38.16 Rating: N/A |
They have a kind of two stage setting process. You think you have them reset, but they really aren't. You need to take the lever handle and really crank it over, towards the passenger side of the bus, until it is almost horizontal and locks into place. If yours is broken, I sent my stock MC5C blower top unit down to Babell2 on the other board back in May but he couldn't use it. If you need it maybe we can arrange for it to be sent on. Brian | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 527 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 66.87.4.11 Rating: N/A |
I’d nearly forgotten how HELPFUL you all are. I’ll respond to certain posts, just for clarification… Bill: Good tip. Haven’t done that yet (removed the tube) but will probably have to. George: You said “Please check to see that you are actually getting the little cam up under the latch, and it is holding it up.” Hmmm. Not quite sure what you mean but I’ll take a closer look. Hi ol’ bud BW.! Throttle works fine when engine off… just locks when I start it and it chugs and smokes. Scratching my head… Dave: I went back and manually re-set it. But I think I’m doing it wrong. Hi Pete! Great diagram and many thanks. Confusions: Mine doesn’t have that little lever? And the cam lock (on the diagram) seems in the same position in both ‘on’ and ‘off’ diagrams. I’ll print this and take it behind the bus to compare. What’re you doing these days? Brian: I think you might have hit on my problem? I didn’t feel any “two stage process,” just the cam clicking back in place (or not). Like I told Pete, I don’t have that little lever so, sure, if nobody needs it would love to have. Thanks. Thanks to all! Nellie | ||
| Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member Username: Bill_gerrie Post Number: 589 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 216.198.139.38 Rating: N/A |
Nellie Can you post a picture of the set up you have for the emergency stop? They should all be the same or very similar. If you can't post a picture email a picture to my email and I will look at it for you. Look in profile for email. Bill | ||
| Brice Abell (Babell2)
Registered Member Username: Babell2 Post Number: 30 Registered: 12-2010 Posted From: 72.145.154.41  Rating: N/A |
Nellie Does your air intake have one hose as the picture Pete posted or does it have two smaller intake hoses? The assembly Bevens6 sent me has two that's why I couldn't use it. It is however available. Brice | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 1329 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 184.12.185.137 Rating: N/A |
I have the shut down shaft with the lever,latch and solenoid if she needs it's came off Derricks MCI we replaced the control tubes I also have some spring loaded injector control tubes if one of you guys want to install those for her where she can do away with that piece of crap | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 2169 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 174.89.179.225 Rating: N/A |
Nellie, is the lever on the opposite side from the solenoid and the cam mechanism? happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Pete/RTS Daytona (Pete_rtsdaytona)
Registered Member Username: Pete_rtsdaytona Post Number: 673 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 184.88.99.113 Rating: |
Nellie That little lever is just an "AID" to help reset the shutdown valve. If you don't have one - just find something to help rotate the shaft - THE OBJECT OF THE GAME IS TO: ROTATE THE SHAFT (THAT HAS THE PIN IN IT IN THE PICTURE) - *****COUNTER-CLOCKWISE**** SO THAT THE CAM (IT'S A DETENT) FALLS DOWN ON THE FLAT FACE OF THE CAM & HOLDS THE SHAFT IN IT's ***MOST CLOCKWISE POSITION*** WHEN AN EMERGENCY SHUTDOWN GET TRIPPED - THE CAM (DETENT) COMES UP AND ALLOWS THE SHAFT TO TURN --CLOCKWISE) - WHICH IN-TURN CLOSES A HUGE FLAPPER PLATE INSIDE THE HOUSING TO STOP ANY AIR FROM BEING SUCKED IN (thus stopping the engine) CAUTION - don't get your fingers near the parts You can take the "teacher" out of the classroom - but you can not take the "classroom" out of the "teacher" Pete " IBM INSTRUCTOR 30 YEARS & now RETIRED" | ||
| Pete/RTS Daytona (Pete_rtsdaytona)
Registered Member Username: Pete_rtsdaytona Post Number: 674 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 184.88.99.113 Rating: N/A |
oops "SO THAT THE CAM (IT'S A DETENT) FALLS DOWN ON THE FLAT FACE OF THE CAM & HOLDS THE SHAFT IN IT's ***MOST CLOCKWISE POSITION*** should read SO THAT THE CAM LOCK LEVER FALLS DOWN ON THE FLAT FACE OF THE CAM & HOLDS THE SHAFT IN IT's ***MOST CLOCKWISE POSITION*** | ||
| Brian Evans (Bevans6)
Registered Member Username: Bevans6 Post Number: 108 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 67.71.38.16 Rating: |
Nellie, I suspect you are going to figure it out, but Brice has the assembly I sent him sitting in his front hall, you are welcome to it. As Clifford said, if you have or if you install spring loaded control rods you don't need the flapper valve for emergency shut down, and I also have a spare set of those. | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 528 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 66.87.4.197 Rating: N/A |
Sorry guys. Didn’t plan to disappear like that but had to spend time at the hospital. But I’m back at it now and here’s an update. Before leaving I doused everything with WD 40… everything smooth as silk now. Maybe too smooth? I can push the shaft by hand (towards the shutoff position) when it’s (supposedly) locked. Not good, I think? I pulled the rubber hose at the intake manifold (to eliminate the air filter, etc. as possible problems) but still no go. BUT I didn’t know about Pete’s info: “THE OBJECT OF THE GAME IS TO: ROTATE THE SHAFT (THAT HAS THE PIN IN IT IN THE PICTURE) - *****COUNTER-CLOCKWISE**** SO THAT THE CAM (IT'S A DETENT) FALLS DOWN ON THE FLAT FACE OF THE CAM & HOLDS THE SHAFT IN IT's ***MOST CLOCKWISE POSITION*** WHEN AN EMERGENCY SHUTDOWN GET TRIPPED - THE CAM (DETENT) COMES UP AND ALLOWS THE SHAFT TO TURN --CLOCKWISE) - WHICH IN-TURN CLOSES A HUGE FLAPPER PLATE INSIDE THE HOUSING TO STOP ANY AIR FROM BEING SUCKED IN (thus stopping the engine). I don’t quite get it, but I get the idea. But do I turn it counter-clockwise or clockwise? The instructions seem contradictory? (Hey, Pete, what’s a detent?) BW, I don’t seem to have a lever. Luvrbus, “piece of crap” says it all (or maybe I’m just grouchy?). But, yeah if either you or Bri could send what I need I’d be eternally grateful! Pressure’s on and I gotta move this thing pretty quick. Can I just post my address here or should I send it by PM? Many thanks… again. Nellie | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member Username: Dmd Post Number: 658 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.114.3.22  Rating: N/A |
Nell, when you rotate the shaft, the detent locks the shaft in place, open. Mine resets with 2 hands, i have to hold the lock lever up while turning the shaft,then letting the lock reset. youll get it. try you tube maybe. | ||
| Brice Abell (Babell2)
Registered Member Username: Babell2 Post Number: 31 Registered: 12-2010 Posted From: 72.145.154.41 Rating: |
Nell Here is the link to what I found with my box. http://mci-conversion.blogspot.com/2011/04/emergency-whatdown.html What Brian sent me looks nothing like what I had but I hope my pictures and naritive will help you with your problem. Brice | ||
| clint hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 664 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.236.127  Rating: N/A |
... yup sounding like fuel pressure flow problems, .fuel level ? ..dirty fuel filter ? ... crusty old fuel pump seal gave out ? ....crusty old fuel lines are leaking and filled with air over time ? =fuel flow & pressure test is indicated |
