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Message |
Letterhead (Letterhead) (68.113.251.143)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 5:04 am: | |
Greetings! I'm looking forward to a lot of help from all of you! Thanx in advance!
I just looked at a 1975 MCI 8 (Setra? I think? Roswell, NM mfg.), 8V71 non-turbo ,Allison 4-spd auto (I forget model #). This was an AZ greyhound from '76-'91, then used by a small nearby motor coach co. until '99 when an itinerant carpenter bought it, and drove it cross-country. He has since settled nearby and wants to sell the bus.
Here's the good:
- Smokes on startup, but clears in 30 seconds
- Documentation says 247,000 mi.
- Appears in decent all-around shape, most everything important works, no dents
- We are assuming the motor was rebuilt in '91
- tires ok, lots of tread, bags show no cracks
- new chassis batteries
- I can find little rust on the body or frame (just printed Jimnh's post- Thanx much!, will go back to investigate further)
-Most of the seats are out
Here's the bad:
- the motor has a couple of leaks, oil is slinging in the engine compartment
- Is being a greyhound bad?
- The owner says he comes out to start and drive it every month, but it has been sitting in a field in WI for TWO YEARS! (I'm well aware of what this can do to cars!)
- The #8 injector has been shut off because the engine would not idle down from full speed.
Here's the ugly:
-ME! :P
The bus we buy will be our full-time home (w/ 2 kids) in 3 yrs. Our budget will be limited for the conversion (until we sell the house), but we really don't want anything fancy, just a comfortable, reliable home. I'm really handy so I plan on doing all the work myself, possibly even an engine rebuild, if needed. I think I can get it for $5,000! But then again, this is the first one we've looked at.
Whaddya all think? |
John that newguy (199.232.240.144)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 7:37 am: | |
I hate to be the first one to answer, since I'm a "newbie" myself.
However... One rule of big piggie that I have learned, is to avoid
buying a bus from a church or someone that doesn't know how
to maintain it, or that can afford to pay someone else to maintain it.
You didn't mention who, or how long that injector was "turned off",
but the fuel is also a lubricating factor for a diesel. The trouble it
takes to "turn it off" instead of replacing it, is.... well... Why wasn't
it replaced and how long was it run like that, should be your question.
Are you sure there isn't a compression leak that caused them to
"turn off" that cylinder? A leaky, corroded sleeve?
New MCIs will be out soon and many older MC9s will be flooding
the market. ABC coach has sold units for as little as 5k that ran fine.
Most decent coaches in "drive away" condition (that have been in
service to the day of sale), can be had for well under 10 grand.
Check the MCI web site. They sell buses too and their prices
for "warranted buses" aren't too bad.
Newer MC9s will have integral steering, while the earlier models
do not. Integral steering gives you a feel of a soundness and stability
in the wheel. You won't be fighting the wheel's play as you would
in an older model.
The 8v71 is a great engine. The 6v92 has almost the same power
without the turbo, and most all have a turbo, giving it more power.
The 6v92 was designed to meet most state's emissions and is easier
to work on, from what I've been told (Dunno, they all look the same
to me).
The one thing you should do, is take it to a bus garage prior to sale;
Have it inspected thoroughly.
After looking at 30 to 40 buses and partially converted coaches,
I ended up buying our '79 MC9 from a minister that has spent years
operating buses for charter. He also brokered buses to churches, and
buying and selling used coaches. Two garages had previously told
other prospective buyers to stay away from our bus because it needed
too much $$ for repairs to ready it for full-time charter work. But
they were being quoted 16k for a sale price; I paid 1/2 that and
the bus was already doing full-time charter work. I thought that was
a good sign.
Was it a deal? Maybe - maybe not. I'll let you know after I have
the rack set and the throttle delay either set or installed. And after
we determine where all the air is leaking from... and after.... and after..
You get the idea.
If it's the first one you've looked at... keep looking. It's not like trying
to find the right spouse; there are plenty of good buses out there just
waiting for you.
But you -will- be "marrying it", so take your time. |
Jose (63.190.72.193)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 9:41 am: | |
" Documentation says 247,000 "
If that is total miliage run don't walk, Grayhounds get that much miliage driving in terminal parking lots !
" turned off # 8 injecter " the old saying " No way Jose "
Look at a few other buses and then compare, it's a buyers market.
Jose |
DaveD (142.46.199.30)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 9:49 am: | |
MC-8s were manufactured by Motor Coach Industries and are very good coaches. Parts support from the manufacturer is good. They use stressed skin construction and have stainless steel construction on the lower half and stainless steel exterior panels. The upper half of the coaches are constructed with mild steel members with aluminum sheets on the inside and outside. Look for signs of corrosion in the steel framework on the upper half of the coach. Some signs may be undue waviness in the flat panels below the windows and windows which are an extra tight fit when trying to release the emergency exit bar and swing them up (they are hinged at the top) to open as one might in an emergency.
MC-8s use air beams as part of the supension system. They provide a means of more air volume that air bags alone and give a softer ride. They are made of heavy gauge mild steel, but over time often develop corrosion that is difficult to repair. Alternatively they can be blocked off so that the air bags alone cushion the ride.
I would be skeptical about only 247,000 miles on a coach that was operated by greyhound. However, if that's the true mileage (if it's what shows on the hubodometer it's likely the engine mileage)it's barely broken in.
MC-8s are not as plentiful on the market as they were a few years ago. $5,000.00 is probably a reasonable price, but there are likely others that can be had in the same price range.
We have an MC-8, which we bought from a bus dealer who had just taken in on a trade from a charter operator. It was still being rented when we bought it in 2001 and made the trip from west coast to east with absolutely no problems. It's been pretty touble free so far.
The cost of converting an old shell is no less than the cost of converting a newer one, but the long term maintenance and extra expense for things that unexpectedly happen could be higher. My recommendation, for what its worth, is get the best shell you can reasonably afford.
Dave Dulmage
MC-8 |
BrianMCI96A3 (65.40.116.190)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 10:45 am: | |
Does the coach ACTUALLY have only 247K miles...
If so, and it truly was owned by Greyhound, I'd want to know why it has so few miles.
When I bought my MCI the documentation coroborated the 295K miles shown on the odometer and evidence in that documentation showed over the last few years my coach was only used on runs of aprox. 50 to 75 to miles a day.
BUT, unfortunately, my documentation only goes back to 98, and examining the speedometer/odometer carefully leads me to the certainty that it was changed sometime before my documentaion shows.
The net result is, without a hubometer (and those can get replaced too) there really is no way to know how many miles my coach rang up.
Unless your documentation goes all the way back to the begining I'd suspect you may have the same situation.
If however it truly has that many miles, and it is rust free and straight, it almost has to be a great coach, even if it needs engine and tranny work, the original intention was for those coaches to last a million miles.
It would be somewhat like finding a straight rust-free 1975 Chevy Suburban with only 35,000 original miles.
Brian |
Marc Bourget (209.142.38.81)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 10:46 am: | |
Echoing the comments above, adding the observation that cutting off the injector may have been to disguise serious trouble with that cylinder, I go on to point out:
For comparison's sake, I picked up a MCI-9 with an overhauled 8V92, an extra 8V92 for a "core", 754 allison which has been dyno'ed and is in "perfect shape" The bus was used by a local charter company (Calif) and I spoke with the mechanic who maintained it for the last 15 years. Good systems throughout and nothing like the corrosion seen in "Gumpydog's" site.
I paid less than what you've been quoted.
I also know of a 84 Eagle 10 6V92/740 ex trailways that I test drove two days ago new rubber good batteries, seated coach, 187,000 on factory re-mans asking $7K. I'm not but if you're interested I'll send you the contact info.
Onward and Upward
Marc Bourget |
TWO DOGS (4.227.115.189)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 1:16 pm: | |
THat Eagle sounds good, ALSO ....look at the buses that are listed here on BUSES FOR SALE....some bargains there ...wish I had more $$...I'd buy a few of them just for the investment... |
Buswarrior (Buswarrior) (64.229.210.229)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 9:44 pm: | |
Hello Letterhead,
Getting back to your original question:
In this market, I'd stay a long way away from a former Greyhound. The most obscure pieces are worn out, leading to you spending all of your conversion money on chassis repairs.
Go out and find a bus that lived its life in a charter operation. Chassis mileage will be lower than for a linerun coach.
The quoted mileage will be, at best, for the engine, if you can trust it. In the transportation industry, hubodometers and speedometers are changed out regularly, either due to failure, or to keep people guessing what the true mileage is.
It wouldn't surprise me if Greyhound put at least 2 million miles on that chassis before letting it go at 15 years old, and they were already deep into a profitless deregulated bus industry by 1991. Which means there wasn't any more money spent on the bus than absolutely necessary to run it down the road.
As others have suggested, go out and spend as much money as you can manage on the best chassis you can find. A $5000 bus can cost you $20 000 more just in chassis related stuff, if you pick wrong... A $10 000 bus might not cost anything more.
happy coaching!
buswarrior |
Johnny (63.186.169.192)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 11:12 am: | |
I think the 247,000 may actually be 1,247,000 miles, or maybe even 2,247,000 miles.
BUT, is that REALLY that big a deal? The Jimmy at work has 1,850,000 CITY miles on it, over some of the most god-awful roads in the country (Boston). With 960,000 on the in-frame, the engine (6V71N) runs perfectly, the chassis has held up fine (ORIGINAL steering box!), & even a 30MPH tag of a 10" curb didn't hurt anything but three tires.
With 2,000,000+ on it, I'd expect it to have several engine & tranny overhauls.
And I've NEVER seen a Detroit that didn't leak atr least SOME oil. If it's not leaking, STOP because there probably isn't ANY oil in it! |
Letterhead (Letterhead) (68.113.251.143)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 8:04 pm: | |
Thanx for all the great comments! I guess the only real reason I was considering it is because it was so close by and don't want to spend $10,000 flying across the country looking at 40 other shells when I can sink the travel money and time into the bus. Really hard to find anything less than a day's drive away.
But I'll just keep learning & looking- the Lord has always had away of dropping just what we need into our laps at just the right time. I really didn't get a good feeling about this bus, anyway. |
TWO DOGS (63.156.216.38)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2004 - 9:19 pm: | |
you can fly east to west for 300.00 |
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