| Author |
Message |
Curt (24.74.75.254)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 9:26 am: | |
Is a propane generator ok for a bus? Can someone provide the pros and cons of such?
Thanks,
Curt
PD-4106-045 |
Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat) (68.7.217.217)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 11:11 am: | |
Yup, if you're not scared of propane.
Pros: *Instant starting in almost any weather
*zero engine maintainance necessary ~and~
*engine lasts forever
*super clean exhaust (if tuned properly)
*engine can sit unstarted for years and
then start right up (no fuel degradation)
*Genset can run on same system as stove, heater, water heater, refridge, etc if tank is big enough
*With a propane gene, you'll never spill gasoline again, and you'll never risk sucking your diesel tank dry while camped out in the boonies
CONS: *15% reduction in generator output capacity
from the same unit running on gasoline
*15% larger tank required for same run time
as you'd get with same unit on gasoline
*some people think propane is unsafe
(I don't.. in fact I think if done
properly, it's safer than gasoline
My personal: I wouldnt do it any other way. And I didn't. My bus: 7.5KW converted Onan, 110 gallon tank, I LOVE it |
John that newguy (199.232.244.51)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 11:32 am: | |
I did the same thing when I first posted a question here, Curt.
There must be a thousand threads that have already covered
and debated this topic to death. Some answers were great,
but you may never get to see them again in a new thread.
Some posters will offer their opinion once and don't bother
offering their opinion regarding the same topic again.....ever.
The search engine here if fantastic! Try a search for propane
generator and take a peek at the results! Some really good
ones! |
TWO DOGS (4.226.105.167)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 12:29 pm: | |
like Gary said...dependable...I have a propane tractor....it has 10 year old propane in it & I can go outside & start it right now...if you let gas sit...it turns to shelac....carb has to be rebuilt..diesel is nice ,but the weight of diesel powerplants is a BUNCH more and diesel powerplants are expencive... |
John that newguy (199.232.244.51)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 1:25 pm: | |
Oh well....
You should try to decide (as my wife and I are in the process of)
what other appliances you plan to run on propane.
If you're like us and hoped to have an "all electric" domain, with
propane as a minimal use backup for heat (hot water) or
refrigeration (where a 20lb tank or two would suffice), then -that-
should dictate what type power plant to get.
Why carry 100+lbs of propane in the bay and take up that room if you
don't need it? You'll need to ventilate that bay also if it's used for
the carry of combustive gas. And.... regardless of further argument...
The carry of propane limits the ability to navigate through hazmat
restricted areas -legally-. The fine is $TIFF if you are caught, but
the issue is moot if you're carrying even small 20lb bottles (although
small bottles are less noticeable and may be passed over).
A gasoline generator offers the same power and the same problem
of fuel carry (ventilation), but without the hazmat restrictions.
A diesel generator doesn't weigh much more and the new models
are quieter than either gas type. It uses the same fuel you already
would be using and it's source can be from the same tank.
The use of near the same voltage for all accessories both DC and AC
and using the same type fuel for the supply of that recharging system,
greatly simplifies the entire affair.
I can't count the times I had to roll out of a campsite to go for propane
with our old RV(s). When you're "dry camping", even at WalMart,
you will be trying to live life as you normally do; with electricity. If
you don't mind having to go look for a place to refill a 100lb built-in
tank (the places are not always where you hope to find one), great.
Either gasoline or diesel are usually available locally. Go look for a
place local to you now, that has a pump to fill a built-in type tank.
In Massachusetts, I had to drive 18 miles to get it filled. If I wanted
to pay less than $2.15 per, I had to drive 25 miles. I could have
bought gasoline or diesel a mile away.
The new Onan "Quiet Diesel" 5, 6, or 7kw genset fills all needs.
They're quieter than any other genset I've seen thus far. It takes less
to maintain than the other types (change the filter) and uses the
same fuel you have to carry anyway.
Like they say: "Do it your way"? |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (68.79.120.182)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 1:30 pm: | |
I'm still shooting for the "All Diesel" coach.
the Kero-Fridge, is an interesting option.
I have Propane Generators at work, as backup generators for computer equipment. they work pretty well...
Gary |
CoryDane RTSII (66.155.188.34)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 2:12 pm: | |
I have propane on board and fuels the Genset. I designed the storage to have a permenentaly attached tank and a portable tank that can be taken to be filled without moving the bus.
As much as I would like to take credit for the protable tank idea, I got the idea from a bus nut here. Beats having to move the bus.
"Imagine"
cd |
John that newguy (199.232.244.51)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 3:37 pm: | |
Gary -
Yeah.... "All diesel coach"!!
(an off-topic note regarding the kerosene/110v fridge thread)
->
The only reply I got back, was from the dealer of that unit. They
said that they wouldn't recommend burning kerosene while
driving, but they also do not recommend using propane while
driving either. They also said that they do not feel a kero unit
was designed for "mobile use", but couldn't answer my comment
that they have been used in boats for awhile. Aside from the fact
that it would be using 110v while driving and the oil while camping.
I'll try Monday again, to contact the manufacturer regarding the
burning of diesel instead of kero.
->
Not having to carry an extra fuel type makes things easier. I enjoy
"no brainers"; I'm retired, tired, and fed-up with annoyances and
problematic devices.
Every one of the commercial propane operated mobile devices (with
possible exception to a stove), use 12, 24 or 110 volts to operate
the module they incorporate for their operation. In every instance,
those modules cost $$$ when they turn sour.
And if you've ever tried to diagnose a problem with a propane
accessory that's faulty and sat wondering about the module being
faulty while the family waits and the food defrosts... well...
(I had a shop try to sell me a $155 module after testing mine and
informing me it was faulty. I didn't buy it. I found the real problem:
a combination of a dirty gas nozzle and a corroded connection.
All our food defrosted in the meantime).
Why bother with mixed fuels? Why not just use electric power for
it all and use the same fuel to generate the power and/or recharge
the batteries used for the power?
Ahhh..... it's just a plan.... my way. |
Curt (24.74.75.254)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 3:49 pm: | |
WOW ! Thanks Guys! My mind is made up. I'm going propane genset. Thanks again.
Curt
PD 4106-045 |
John that newguy (199.232.244.51)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 3:51 pm: | |
HAR HAR... good show Curt! |
FAST FRED (4.245.212.57)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 5:33 am: | |
"And if you've ever tried to diagnose a problem with a propane
accessory that's faulty and sat wondering about the module being
faulty while the family waits and the food defrosts... well..."
Almost every module that I have come across that has "died" came from the same source.
Lousy wiring leading to low voltage .
There is a very simple solution , install a DINOSOUR board that is made about 1000% better than the stock low buck stuff.
Simply install the D board on new equippment and live happily ever after.
Although the better Survelle fridges have NO boards at all.
Its no fun to have to take apart a brand new $400.Suburban Furnace , to install a new board, but its ONCE!
Ask the folks with the $6000 oil furnaces how many times they have had to servcice the unit (in a liveaboard year), or fix complex wiring to pumps valves relays ext.
FUEL Cost usually is the kicker on Propane gen sets.
Under 200 or 300 hours a year its far less costly than diesel over time .Vacation in Hell , air cond 24/7/30 and diesel will be cheaper, if you can stand the poisonous exhaust stench , noise and high inital first cost.
Do it your way , but remember "BESTITIS" is a disease , not an engineering solution.
Compromise , Your Way!
FAST FRED |
John that newguy (199.232.240.179)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 9:20 am: | |
I don't know, Fred..... But somehow.... buying a new high-priced
propane appliance and then buying and installing a fairly expensive
module replacement to insure the manufacturer's module doesn't quit
in the middle of no place... And voiding any warrantee in doing so...
Instead of just running damn near fault-free electric appliances
and saving all the hassle that goes with mixed systems.....
Just doesn't quite add up for me..
The use of Propane for appliances is as old as RVing, but so
were split rims.
Lousy wiring and low voltage may well be the cause of failure
for many modules, but not the majority.
There were high instances of wet boards. The manufacturers and
their engineers decided to encase their board's components
in potting compound. That fixed the moisture problem but
caused the components to overheat. There were problems of
vibration causing the components to break from the board, and
the board itself from becoming damaged by it's mountings.
Corrosion on the terminals.... the list goes on, Fred.
The dinosaur board replacement is good, but it's not without the
price tag it carries - the voided warrantee and time it takes to
remove a good module and replace it with an after market one.
We full-timed for over two years. We've been through two
commercial RVs and swear we'll never buy another. But
it's not just the way the stick and staples are made, it's all
the components that are designed for it, to suit the needs
of the typical stick and staple buyer, guided by price.
Propane appliances fail more frequently than electric appliances.
Why bother with it at all?
|
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (68.79.120.182)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 9:55 am: | |
" Almost every module that I have come across that has "died" came from the same source. "
Welding on a coach and forgetting to disco the batteries does them no favors, either.
Gary |
Mike (Mikemc9) (208.187.51.249)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 11:44 am: | |
I need enlightning, what is a DINOSOUR board?
Mike |
FAST FRED (4.245.230.53)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 2:02 pm: | |
"The use of Propane for appliances is as old as RVing, but so were split rims."
AS always the prospective converter needs to be honest in how the coach is to be used.
Total electric is great at destination campsites with 240/50 but,
Always that "but" older prettier out of the way spots mostly have 15A 120v , or the same #14 wires with a 30A socket and same old 15A breaker.
For a TEC this means bare survival at most US campsites, and most in Canada too.
The range won't work with out 240 , the split systen air cond is dead , and the 240V hw heater just sits there taking up space.
For the serious woods camper there is ONLY propane to boondock with. Most folks will run out of water long before needing propane if not airconditioning .
The ability to run silent for a month or twelve seems to be of use to some folks.
Although 24/7 gensets have been attempted , most die very early from light loads.
AS all choices are individual , the best setup is the one the coach camper builds for HIS PARTICULAR needs (if he has been realistic with himself).
Blanket statements TEC is the "only " way to go , or similar with propane , or diesel are not realistic for most who must compromise.
FAST FRED |
Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (65.74.66.104)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 7:11 pm: | |
John that newguy, I just recently did a computation of comparable energy in propane and batteries.
In a nutshell, a 60 lb. golfcart battery will put out as much usable energy between charges as around 3 fuild ounces of propane.
Because of it's low density, that is less than 2 ounces of weight. This means my boondocking battery bank can be kept light!
We recently got sick and tired of problems with propane appliances(refer and furnace) and changed both to Dinosaur boards. They both work perfectly, the first time, everytime. So, I'm sold on them.
The boards put out by Dometic and Suburban seem to be a problem by design. Do you suppose they own Dinosaur?
By the way, here's the link. It's "www.dinosaurelectronics.com/". Check it out.
Heating and cooling are the usual big energy users. While most people understand that the battery bank won't handle an AC for long, many get fouled up by the refrigerator's heavy use of power.
I think it's because they've never gotten familiar with the amount of power a house unit uses.
For what it's worth.
Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
Suncatcher |
CoryDane RTSII (66.155.188.14)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2004 - 6:32 pm: | |
YES, a propane genset is ok for a bus.
Its ok to use gasoline gensets too.
Its ok to use diesel gensets too.
Its basically a matter of cost and fuel preference.
You have been thrown into a shove match here which has no bearing on the question.
Just keep in mind, the genset needs to be considered for the type of travel you intend to have.
An all electric coach is great if it will spend its life hooked to a land line tether. Using the gen is ok, but fuel becomes a fast concern and the neighbors don't like the sound or smell.
A coach that will only boon dock for short periods and spend most time on a resort ac tether can get away with all electric, mind the fuel for the genny. Propane helps expand the timeline and you may not need to refill the propane under short trip experiences.
If you want to spend months in the boonies, you need propane to help extend life and power. My suggestion is to have your attached, non removable tank AND a removable tank so you can get fuel without moving the bus.
Solar panels help too. Of course, all these scenarios reflect your power usage, you need to study power usage before you make any kind of power supply plans. USE OF THE AIR CON WILL RAPIDLY DEPLEAT ANY KIND OF ENERGY SOURCE YOU HAVE.
That is the basics, hope it helps.
cd |
John that newguy (199.232.240.41)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2004 - 9:12 pm: | |
Not to be rude, CD... But the question was:
"Is a propane generator ok for a bus? Can someone provide
the pros and cons of such? "
With which, all of us on the Busnut Debate Team commenced
with our own viewpoints citing what we felt were the
"pros and cons".
Not a bit off-topic at all.
Besides, diesel's much better. |
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