| Author | Message | ||
| Scott Cook (Sdc53)
Registered Member Username: Sdc53 Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2011 Posted From: 76.115.77.46 Rating: N/A |
Hi, I'm a newbie that has gotten bitten by the bus bug and am seriously considering buying a 1959 GM 4104 #4073. Some people on this board volunteer to lookup history, would appreciate any info people are willing to provide. Also looking for advice on what you'd look for problem-wise on a pre-buy inspection. It appears to have been lovingly restored from the basement up with no expense spared, but I'm trying to determine if there are any problems lurking under that shiny paint. The guy who did the work passed away, and most of the history went with him. I'm gonna crawl all over it, under, and in it. Supposedly it got an "in frame" rebuild, but I'm not sure what all that includes. Tell me what you've seen that I should look for.... It's got a 671 with a 4-speed stick (which my wife dislikes). With those non syncros I'll be the only one to master that tranny, but I'll probably have a hoot driving it once I do (I hope). Thanks! | ||
| Rick Cribbins (Rc38)
Registered Member Username: Rc38 Post Number: 44 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 97.120.178.214  Rating: N/A |
Hi Scott, from Astoria OR. I see your in Portland area. I have 1954 PD4104 #1060. Where is the bus located? If it's kinda close by, I could help you with the going over it. I'm not an expert, but I've learned an awful lot about mine. Shoot me an email with your phone number and I'll give you a call on Thursday. Nice looking buses! The 671 is no power house, but they'll give you some fantastic milage, if you learn to drive them nicely. Slow and easy is my mantra when driving mine. 11.66 mpg on the last trip. RJ Long gave me these links to some of the best advise you can get: Read/print out, take with and utilize these: http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/12262/16204.html?1167073154 http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/12262/16203.html?1167072614 Welcome to the club! Rick | ||
| Scott Cook (Sdc53)
Registered Member Username: Sdc53 Post Number: 2 Registered: 12-2011 Posted From: 76.115.77.46 Rating: N/A |
Hi Rick, I just sent you a note and it bounced - update your profile. My email is correct on mine, so drop me a line if you like. Still hoping someone can lookup the serial number history for me! Thanks Scott | ||
| Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 723 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 184.0.13.120  Rating: N/A |
Hi Scott, We bought 4104-4039 about 13 years ago. If possible, take the bus for a ride of about 30 miles. The engine might smoke a little when cold but when you get back it should not. Look to see if the steering is fairly tight. On the standard system, about 3/4" of play on the original big steering wheel is very good. Look for oil leaks under engine, trans & rear end. DO NOT crawl under the bus unless it is blocked up well. People HAVE been crushed when the air suspension came down for one reason or another! Look to see if there are any big waves in the sides of the body or large wrinkles at the top front roof corners. Signs of chassis failure. Look at the bag bay ceilings, for rotten plywood. Not fatal, but you want to know if it's there. Check the tire numbers. The last three or four numbers (depending on how old they are) are date codes. Tires are pretty old at 7 years and new shoes should be figured into the purchase price. Does it have the original windows or have they been upgraded to Peninsular windows (fit the same openings but built like modern RV windows)? Does it have a genset and if so, does it start quickly & run smoothly when both loaded and unloaded? Hunting is a sign that the carb needs overhaul (if gasoline). (You'd be surprised what a can of Sea Foam will do though!) How old are the batteries? 5 years is about the life of wet batteries. Lastly, know that you are buying an antique vehicle like a 57 Chevy or an old fire truck. It WILL need tinkering and TLC as you go along. If you can't fix anything, you'll be better off buying an RV or pull trailer as paying others to do little stuff gets old at $100/hr. That said, these are cool busses. My wife has learned to drive the non synchro stick shift though she does not love it. If you want to down the road, it can be converted to auto trans but with a loss of MPG. | ||
| Scott Cook (Sdc53)
Registered Member Username: Sdc53 Post Number: 3 Registered: 12-2011 Posted From: 69.168.63.196 Rating: N/A |
Talked to Rick on the phone earlier - thanks for taking the time! Jim- The windows latch in the middle, RV-style but I don't know exactly what the original ones looked like so I'm not sure how to tell if they have been upgraded. It has a cap on the front (and rear, I think too) so it won't be possible to look for wrinkles there. There is a crack in the windshield, so I think I need to look for frame damage carefully. The bag bay ceilings have been painted. I did see some worn wood there, not sure if it was rotten or not.. I'll poke it with a screwdriver when I inspect it in the daylight. It does need batteries right away and the genset has a couple thousand hours on it and it's a fairly old onan propane powered unit, I think. Couple tires are probably due for replacement. I am concerned about distance traveling. Our current motorhome (which will be for sale - too small for my family) is a 24' class C based on a dodge sprinter turbodiesel that gets 12-14mpg. We like to go FAR and need roadworthy stuff AND good MPG. How many of you would trust a similar vintage bus to go across the country and back in a trouble-free manner? This thing is older than I am. We *will* take multi-thousand mile trips with it frequently. Oh and the odometer - it's been replaced. True mileage unknown. "In frame rebuild" approx 25k miles ago - but no supporting receipts. Engine seems clean, but some degreaser and paint would make anything look good. It *looks* like it's been worked on, and I'm trusting the guy's word that it has (he knew the prior owner and saw it with his own eyes). Scared yet? Without docs, all I have to go on is the general condition of things and the guy's word. Anyone bought a bus with similar concerns? How'd it work out for you? What about when *I* go to sell it, and resale with engine history? I think I'll have the guy write up a history and sign it. That way, the story will endure. Suggestions or thoughts? Anyone found themselves in a similar situation? | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1406 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 173.202.3.83  Rating: N/A |
Our first trip was 5000 mi. Had clogged fuel filters, leaking oil connection to governor and had to replace the drive shaft because of worn splines on slip joint. You will surely have to change fuel filters numerous times before the tank clears up so watch it closely. A slow loss of power is the clue. Lucky we were stopped or near a repair facility every time something happened. Pretty standard for such old buses. We put 75,000 mi on it in five years, have been coast to coast numerous times. Every trip was an adventure and usually something failed but I was able to repair or get repaired every time. Never had to be towed. I finally parked it after the front main seal failed but it gave me a good excuse to get a 41107 with full time PS and AT, I'm too old for that manual steering even though it had hyd boost. I wouldn't get this bus if it doesn't at least have the hyd boost for low speed close maneuvering. Look for cracks above the LR escape door and around the windshield corner posts. Loose windshields or gaps at the top are a clue. This indicates a major body failure. Sometimes the shifter will lock up if you forget to fully depress the clutch. Someone then has to hold down the clutch while you go back and move the shift levers on the trans to neutral. This is a good old bus and I wouldn't trade the experience for anything. If you have any questions feel free to email me. I second the driving part, mine leaked oil pretty badly but not until I had driven it a couple hundred miles! (Message edited by gusc on December 08, 2011) | ||
| J.L.Vickers (Roadrunnertex)
Registered Member Username: Roadrunnertex Post Number: 89 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 76.6.86.90 Rating: N/A |
1959 GM 4104 #4073 Hudson Transit Lines (Mahwah,NJ)05/1959. You can't beat a PD4104 the old girls are a fine coach. | ||
| Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 724 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 184.0.13.120 Rating: N/A |
Scott; These do not have a true frame. They are monocoque construction much like an airplane. Mostly aluminum. Great engineering & really overbuilt. Most did not have odometers but Greyhound & Trailways would run 100K miles per year & keep their busses 10 years. Second & third owners usually way less miles. Ours has, by our reconing, nearly 3 million miles on it. Original '04 windows have latches at the front & rear, big, heavy single pane windows with silver frames. Sounds like yours are replacements which might be double pane and probably work & seal well. Cracked windshield is not by itself an indicator of chassis failure. Windshields are easy to get. Same for 4104, 06, 07, 4905 and side windows of Prevost LeMirage. Doubt anything with no receipts. A "rebuilt" engine should start when completely cold in a revolution or two. Should not smoke blue for more than 15 seconds if at all. All that said, when the bus is right, it is a joy to drive. Smooth, air suspension, holds the road well in a crosswind, can carry just about anything you can cram in the bays. (I bet your present M/H is nearly overloaded!) The 4104 is not fast but gets pretty good mileage, around 10 which is not bad for 12 tons! As far as resale value, it won't lose too much if you keep it maintained, but you will not get back your $$. Maybe you should mention how much the owner is asking. You'd likely get some feedback on what people paid and what they think that one might be worth. | ||
| Mel La Plante (Mel_4104)
Registered Member Username: Mel_4104 Post Number: 181 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 173.180.126.127 Rating: N/A |
Scott you are asking the owner to sign a paper that not even a dealer selling you a new motor home would sign. try to remenber that it is over 50 years old on just off the line. we have a 1960-4977 and we have had it for 15 years with no serious trouble, total cost of repairs over the years total less total $1,000,living in BC we go to AZ in the winter and have had it into TX and way down on the main land of MEX with no problem. the fellow that owned it before us drove it across Can to FL to Cal and home with no problem. just find some one that has a 4104 and talk to him in fact find a couple. just think how many of them are out there and how few are for sale. and as for resale you will sure get a better return for your dollar than what you paid for the sticks and glue you are trying to sell. | ||
| L James Jones Jr (Jamo)
Registered Member Username: Jamo Post Number: 238 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 74.67.218.12  Rating: |
Welcome Scott, We bought our '04 in '07 after a couple years of looking and learning about buses. My wife thought I was nuts, but then one fine day I was out on my RoadKing and saw a '57 '04 in a driveway. I stopped & met the owner, and he was more than happy to show me the bus. The following week, my wife came with me to see it & go over the girl friendly parts with the Mrs. Rose (my wife) loved the thing. If it was for sale, she would have been talking $$$. So...we bought our bus unseen, but delivered and promised that it was "as told". It was and I paid for it on the spot...after a test drive, of course. I have been through all the wiring and plumbing (wasn't up to standards), but what a great way to learn about your bus. Rose retires this sumer and we are planning to get lost when we can. Just day trips with the bus to this point, but it has not let us down yet. I paid $8000 for mine (less than 10,000 miles on OOF rebuild for both engine and tranny) and it's a dated (but nice) conversion. Mine is still 4 speed with NO power steering and I love it. Correction...we love it. Good luck to you and hope the '04 is what you are looking for... | ||
| Mark Renner (Boomer)
Registered Member Username: Boomer Post Number: 252 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 206.58.200.38  Rating: N/A |
Welcome Scott. I am just across the river from you and currently own 3 buses including a PD3751. My brother owns a 4106. We have been into buses for years and have a fully equipped shop with lifts. There is 4 of us busnuts that get together every couple weeks for coffee, would love to have you. Would be happy to help out if you need it. 4104 is a great car if it's had any care at all. | ||
| Scott Cook (Sdc53)
Registered Member Username: Sdc53 Post Number: 4 Registered: 12-2011 Posted From: 69.168.63.196 Rating: N/A |
Mark, Beautiful looking eagle you have there. Would love to meet up with you all sometime if I end up getting this bus. Going to the inspection tomorrow. Wish me luck. Drop me a note sometime. Everyone has been very welcoming and helpful and I appreciate all the feedback and comments. Thanks again! Scott | ||
| Scott Cook (Sdc53)
Registered Member Username: Sdc53 Post Number: 5 Registered: 12-2011 Posted From: 76.115.77.46 Rating: N/A |
Update: I didn't end up getting it. It'll probably make a fine rig for somebody, but there were a few too many minor things that it needed, and a few major ones ( 7 new tires and a full set of house batteries) right away. Mechanically, probably sound and a nicer interior than most. I'll continue my search. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1408 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 173.202.20.168 Rating: N/A |
Scott, Price not considered those shouldn't be deal breakers - you'll probably find that with most buses you see that have not been driven for any length of time. If it doesn't have an inverter it doesn't need more than a couple of house batts. Engine, trans and overall condition are most important to me. Those are the big $$ items, others are minor. However, it is fun looking if you're in no hurry for a bus. | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1629 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 97.224.92.5  Rating: N/A |
I'm with Gus on this, Scott. Tires and batteries are minor in the overall. (Yes, I understand that these may, indeed be major to your budget). I've been a bus owner for over ten years now and have had experience in "minor" and "major"....scout!s honor... tires and batteries are the least of one's concerns. For instance, unless you plan to drive the coach daily, or for thousands of miles a month...or even a year, very good tire "take offs" can be had for +- $100 each; As for batteries... well, I use three group 31 starts from Sam's Club. Many others will testify to something similar, I am quite sure! As our friend Fast Fred says..."do it your way"!...and best wishes on whatever you do. FWIW  RCB | ||
| Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 726 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 184.0.13.120 Rating: N/A |
You didn't say if you were able to go for a half hour ride with it. If so, and it ran well but needs tires & batts, it may be "a keeper". You just factor the cost of new tires & batteries into the price. It's not likely that you will find a good price on a coach that has brand new tires & batts as the seller would not get the $$ back. Like new carpet in a house for sale. By the way, I had to replace all tires & the batts when we bought our bus. But we have had 7-8 years of use without worry about ageing tires. I just downsized from two 8-D start batteries to two 4-D batts. My 4104 starts fine. I was using just one 4-D for a couple of months & it started but not snappy like with two. Today's batteries have WAY more CCA power than in 1953! Eagle uses 3 x 31 batteries to start an 8V92. I second Chucklib's comment about take off tires. Most tire dealers have a bunch of take offs where a truck installs a full set & several of the takeoffs are in great shape. They might be 2 years or so old. Even if you travel a lot, your coach tires will rot before the tread is gone. If this is the first bus you are looking at, you might want to keep looking. | ||
| Scott Cook (Sdc53)
Registered Member Username: Sdc53 Post Number: 6 Registered: 12-2011 Posted From: 69.168.63.196 Rating: N/A |
I really, really wanted to buy it - and was heartbroken that we couldn't. There were a few warning signs of poor quality workmanship and trouble that I couldn't ignore. One annoyance I couldn't get over is they painted over the seals on the basement door areas and much of the plumbing. Sure it looks nice, but does my propane fill cap need to be painted the same color as the basement? I touched one gasket and it crumbled... the paint only contributed to the brittle nature of the seal. The proper way would have been to remove or mask over these items, then paint. It's probably for the best anyways, because even though my wife was gonna let me buy it, I know she wants an automatic. Plus, I think I'd like a 4106 or something with a bit more power. Still on the market if anyone has a clean conversion they are looking to sell. We are picky, not looking for a princess but don't want an unfinished project or something with a bunch of "there I fixed it" stuff. Our criteria would be something like this: -35' or so -automatic trans -professional conversion or at least done correctly -no leaks or smells -if it's been rebuilt, have some documentation of when or mileage -I'm partial to the GM's, 4106's and buffalos for the huge storage -will consider all makes that still have good parts availability -our budget is under $15k Thanks! | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 2207 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.71.157  Rating: N/A |
you should consider 9 to 11 mpg on 4104 vs 6 to 8 mpg on the 4106, 4107,08, 4905 with an automatic. 12,000 miles at 7 mpg. $6857 vs 4800 @10 mpg. That difference could almost buy 6 new tires. | ||
| Scott Cook (Sdc53)
Registered Member Username: Sdc53 Post Number: 7 Registered: 12-2011 Posted From: 69.168.63.196 Rating: N/A |
John - you are right, and my wallet will cringe! However, keeping the wife happy is worth the extra $2k if I can find the right rig. | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1631 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 97.225.122.5 Rating: |
FWIW...Scott, that's a lot of "criteria". Remember, these critters are OLD...not newer, less well built stuff. Sure, you can hold out for the "perfect" coach, but you might hold for a looong time. Most of us in this HOBBY are constantly working on our machines. Not always because they "need it", but preventative, preferred, etc. etc. Just because something is a "professional conversion" does not necessarily mean (insure) a coach without faults or defects, or "rathers". Done right?...an old saying comes to mind..."in the eye of the beholder", methinks. From my point of view, this HOBBY is a labor of love.....and we all know that love is not without disappointments and shortcomings and short, sometimes. of expectations. Different from any part of life?... I don't think so. I purchased my coach at considerably less money than your budget; however in the long run, I have considerably more than double your budget invested. Most of that was "voluntary"...wanted, as opposed to needed. We did stuff as we saw a need or want. By and large, one can't do that with stick and staples. (BTDT) BTW, my coach went to the shop this morning for a new shock on the front "door" wheel, a front end alignment, and a possible "overhaul" of a rear leveler. I cringe at what the bill might be, but after ten years plus, I just grin (wince)...and bear it...after planning for it!  . Again, take a deep breath, look around, and make an "educated" decision. ; .....and talk to the LORD! Best wishes! RCB | ||
| Scott Cook (Sdc53)
Registered Member Username: Sdc53 Post Number: 8 Registered: 12-2011 Posted From: 69.168.63.196 Rating: N/A |
I know, all of the buses I have been looking at are older than me. I need work too - just not an overhaul (yet). Was thinking about starting a new thread soliciting offers of buses for sale. I've expanded my search nationally and have emailed about 8 new prospects, but nothing solid yet. Realize activity may be reduced due to the holidays. Really though- let me know if you've got anything for sale at the email on my profile. Thanks! (Message edited by sdc53 on December 13, 2011) | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1410 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 173.202.16.250 Rating: N/A |
If you just like looking at buses the list is fine, but you will probably only find the perfect bus at a price you can't afford. All these old timers have problems and you have to accept that you will pay big bucks or expect to do a little work. The worst case is to spend big bucks and then still have to do some work. All this has already been said but it needs to be said again! More power is nice and the 4106 is a great bus but the 4104 is the last all Al GMC built and that is no small matter, just ask Eagle owners about structural rust!! I agree about the AT only because first gear in the 4sp is too high and a real pain but you probably won't find one in a 4104. Unless you buy a very new model at big bucks you can look forward to constant maintenance, just goes with the hobby. The other side of the story is you can buy a high dollar S&S and still have major problems which the manufacturer will not be anxious to make good, just read any motorhome magazine and read the bad news. And you will still have a high priced piece of junk. Looking for a bus is fun if you have the time to travel. DO NOT ever buy one sight unseen, pictures lie!! It took me a bunch of traveling to find this out. | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1632 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 97.215.200.49 Rating: N/A |
Gus...I absolutely agree with you.... for the most part, but I must say that "big bucks" is hardly $15K or even $30K. For a solid built MH, (Bus Conversion/Bus to convert)that is peanuts compared to what a "comparable" factory built will cost. I mentioned above that I had my coach in for some "service". While there, the owner of the facility, Border International of Las Cruces, told me about a Prevost we saw on the "finished line"(in for repair) about $300,000 total cost of the unit (not the repair).....6 owners, $800 per month each for some years!!! Great looking coach..; alas, we all agreed, I had the better deal!!! BTW, Scott...I'm on SS.....and I can't, uh...overextend! We just plan....one day at a time! Methinks Scott needs to remember, this is a "fun" thing and when it stops to be uh...well....better look for fun elsewhere. Best to you RCB | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1411 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 173.202.25.30 Rating: N/A |
My idea of big bucks for a bus is in the $50-80K area. That is way out of my league! For S & S it is many more times that, so far away I can't even think in those numbers.It is real easy to get into the $300,000 area here for anything diesel the size of a bus. | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1635 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 97.226.24.206 Rating: N/A |
UP-date on my earlier post about "in the shop"... Got a call today: What "needs" to be done on the front end and replace the main Air Switch(valve)= (replace both front sway bar bushings...one missing entirely...replace both shock bushings, top and bottom....and align front end) ...$1167. That is with a $$$ cut because I am a "regular customer".....(from $1408). Yes, we will do it. And the beat goes on. Scott, be mindful of the costs and "possibilities" of costs of keeping these old coaches in good shape might be.... . FWIW RCB | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 2209 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.71.157 Rating: N/A |
wow, $30.00 worth of bushings, 2 hours of labor and whatever it takes to set toe-in. Don't know what the air switch might be......... | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1650 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 97.214.30.75 Rating: N/A |
FWIW update...just got the coach out of "service facility" today. (see above post)...$1044..and change. Not a "cheap" hobby....but then, what is? Good grief! ....oh, and BTW...DID you buy it? RCB (Message edited by chuckllb on January 02, 2012) | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1659 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.219.38.59 Rating: N/A |
and yet another "update".... The above post can be "edited" to read: Had to return to Border International in Las Cruces ,the next day for work not completed/not properly done/done at all??? or????. A week later...and another $368.++, and a trip back home (5 miles)the coach wont hold air at all after engine is stopped. Over night from 120 in both guages to "0" in both; this after changing two air switches and a regulating valve.....and over $1400 spent to date. The problem now worse than when we took it in. Not a cheap hobby, eh what? RCB | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1434 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 173.202.31.45 Rating: N/A |
RC, One of the reasons I try to do all of my bus work if possible. I'm too old to do the heavy stuff anymore but the rest I can do, luckily. Another problem is finding anyone who knows anything about old buses, not easy to do. | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1660 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 97.224.230.50 Rating: N/A |
Right Gus...so do I....and so AM I. Unfortunately, I should NEVER have allowed them to touch anything "beyond" the immediate (what I pointed out as the problem area). Frankly I drilled the service manager on it (who is old enuf and smart enuf to know exactly where I was coming from), but apparently it did not sink in, as it were. To be absolutely fair, when I arrived to pick up the coach this last time he said, without a word from either of us "we will eat this one". I said, "fair is fair....I'll pay my share". Just didn't occur to me that it would be ANYTHING like that...I took the bill, paid and said nothing more. And as stated, worse now than before I took it in. I guess my point in this entire thing is.....if one can't stand the "heat", what is the saying?....better stay out of the kitchen. One can sink lotsa $$$$ into "the thing" without intending (wanting) to. As I've seen on bumper stickers, "Things Happen". What is the Boy Scout's motto?...Be Prepared ( gosh that's stuck with me a few decades) All in "Good Faith"...alas, doesn't always happen that way, does it? FWIW RCB | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1438 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 173.202.4.115 Rating: N/A |
RC, Yeah, that has happened to me a couple of times on the road when I had no choice. I just paid and went on my way - this is to be expected sometimes. | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1669 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 97.212.152.115 Rating: N/A |
And the beat goes on: ....bill paid right? (see post just above). The coach still listed heavily to driver side. Reported to the "service facility"....(they couldn't care less,they collected). I have since "chased the leak"...found it was at the place they "bypassed"; a "found leak". They would not answer e-mail; wanted no part of me and did not want to make it right. (After all, what is a reputation?) Took me 45 minutes to cut the connection they made, re-route and re-connect to the tank directly....done! No "list" in two days after starting several times for air build up. Was charged nearly $500 for that original air leak (which I specifically pointed out...which I ultimately fixed!)...oh,and that is plus $1000 for aligning font end and putting new bushings in the sway bar and front shocks (NO...no shocks were replaced, just bushings) I have re-hashed this..... over and over... in my mind. Do not understand it; can't comprehend it; can't justify it. Just a part of life, I guess. Buyer beware, I've heard. Would also suggest after several "take back"s over the years one might indeed want to avoid Border International in Las Cruces (and El Paso,TX). Thanx for listen'in! RCB | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1451 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 173.202.20.221 Rating: N/A |
RC, It feels better to get this stuff off the 'ole chest. Thanks from the rest of us, now we know to avoid Border International. Good info for me because we often travel west via Las Cruces and El Paso! | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1671 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 97.213.234.137 Rating: N/A |
Thanx for that Gus....guess I appreciate the "empathy", but.... ....really do not like to "knock" those trying to make a living. I have been in business far too many years, though, to not know how to take care of customers. And doing what is "right", at least for me, is at the very top. Can't always satisfy, but priority has always been to make the attempt. BI is owned by Mesilla Valley Transportation; one can see them "on the road" most anywhere. The guy that owns it is apparently a "maverick", and that is not all bad, but brings up the question of ethics from time to time. I do know that when I first owned this coach, it, strangely enuf, was a Mesilla Valley mechanic that referred me to the fellow who they thought very highly of and who owned Valley Diesel, just outside LC close to the intersection of Highway 70 and I-10. They talked him into joining BI as partner/general manager. 8 years later he is no longer and "married to them" for a 10 year payoff! (non compete arrangement) I am going to do some investigating and will gladly post what I find out about facilities in this neck of the woods that one can rely on...to be helpful, honest and reliable....if any. Thanx for your remarks. One man helping another, as I have always been taught. Third World Bus Nut, RCB. |
