| Author |
Message |
steve souza (Stevebnut) (24.60.226.230)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 8:51 am: | |
I can get a 6v92 with a v730 for the bus to replace my 6v71 and two speed.
Is it possible to make the engine non electronic or is setting up the electronics (engine comes with the computers) an easy job?
My bus is a 75 AM General no electronics but the stereo!
The donor is coming out of a 1989 RTS with under 100,000 miles on rebuild cradle and all.
thanks--Steve |
Bill Gerrie (209.50.74.109)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 9:06 am: | |
Steve
I am going through the same thing now with changing from an 8V71 to a 6V92TA DDEC IV / V731 ATEC. You cannot change an electronic engine to non electronic without major things being changed. The camshafts are different as well as the blower etc. (no govenor on DDEC engine). The DDEC engine is very reliable. Ask an RTS owner. I just wish I could get my hands on the wiring diagram to wire up the electronic engine and electronic transmission. Bill |
James Maxwell (Jmaxwell) (66.81.212.146)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 11:07 am: | |
As Bill says, stay w/the DDEC. It represents a performance improvement on MUI engines and the IV units are pretty much bug free with better mileage. It is not practical to convert one back to MUI, so if that is what u have your heart set on, find an MUI unit to start with. |
Pete RTS/Daytona (209.165.1.107)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 7:13 pm: | |
Bill
I have a 2 page V731 wiring harness diagram for the tranny ECU - got a FAX mach ??
Pete RTS/Daytona 386 672-0571 |
Geoff (Geoff) (66.238.120.25)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 11:28 pm: | |
You don't want that engine-- not only will it be an EPA DDEC, it will be sitting at a 15 degree angle instead of the 45 degrees you need. Plus you will not be able to upgrade the horsepower because of the DDEC transit application. Stick with an early 80's MUI engine (not RTS) if you want to save yourself a lot of grief, not to mention work.
--Geoff
'82 RTS CA |
steve souza (Stevebnut) (24.60.226.230)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 8:46 am: | |
Geoff
My dillema is that i can get it very very cheap (cheap = free + gratuity to donor) and i have the ability and resources to weld, cut, lengthen, shorten or any fabrication work to make it fit.
When you said 15 degrees you mean the tilt of the motor not the angle of the drive corrrect?
What is the horsepower rating on it?
I would like to change my vh9 for a v730 but then this deal fell in my lap.
What really concerns me is getting the computor up and running on both the engine and trans.
Can i just put voltage to the computer and it reads motor sensors for all its info or does the computer work along with a bunch of relays, sensors and the like from the vehicle?
Sorry for all the questions but increasing my horsepower by 100 and gaining one more gear plus more top end all for short money and much labor will be worth it for me if i can figure how to make it run.
I am tired of being a traffic hazard on the freeway.
Thanks for the replys!!!
Steve |
John that philosoguy (199.232.240.133)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 9:47 am: | |
I don't know nuttin' 'bout dis... but I do know one thing for certain:
*** Sometimes freebees cost more than you have. ***
And -that- goes for a whole bunch of things in life. |
Jim Shepherd (Rv_Safetyman) (66.82.9.69)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 11:41 am: | |
Steve, if you want to do this conversion, I strongly suggest you get the DDEC Application and Installation manual. There are several DDEC manuals, but this is the one you need. I got mine off ebay and see them listed every so often (usually sell in the $50 to $100 range).
You will need all of the cabling from front to rear and the electronic "throttle". In addition, you will need other electronic items in the driver’s area. All of this is detailed in the manual mentioned above. If you don’t have access to the cable, you can buy from Detroit or make your own (not cheap or easy).
DDEC III uses 10 inputs. Most are on the engine, so you will have them. You will need to add a coolant level transducer (no big deal). You should also have the ECM reset to reflect your rear end ratio and tire size.
Geoff says that you can’t change the engine rating. I suspect that is a password issue in the ECM, because the engine rating can be set via ECM re-program on all DDEC engines from what I can read. However, this change requires a password. I have read that there is a stronger “block” to this re-program, but I would suspect the DD service folks can overcome that issue.
One of the side benefits of the DDEC is that it gives you a great cruise control option. Also, some of the engines have Jake brakes.
So, bottom line, this conversion is not for the faint of heart. It requires significant electronic work to get everything working.
I am not an expert, but I have done a lot of research and would be glad to try to help you if you decide to go ahead with this project. My email and phone number can be found on my website.
Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
’85 Eagle 10
http://rvsafetysystems.com
Bus Project details: http://www.rvsafetysystems.com/busproject.htm (updated 8/7/04) |
ggypsy (65.1.53.144)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 8:30 pm: | |
really simple to wire in ddec..all wires are color coded and numbered from one end to the other....just buy the ddec trouble shooting and repair manual...not only show you how to wire in but gives you all the codes and how to fix step buy step.under $100. from any dealer...any small town dd shop will help you with the power and torque you want just shop around...easy swap and more power than any other street dd..gg |
James Maxwell (Jmaxwell) (66.81.32.94)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 1:34 am: | |
ggypsy: U are the 1st person of maybe 7 or 8 that I know of having undertaken this project that ever described it as "really simple". I don't know, I haven't been involved in shoehorning a DDEC into a bus not so equipped, but a couple of the people that I know that have done it were DD mechanics (primarily MUI experience) and even they never described the install as simple. I also know of 2 or 3 "small town DD shops" that won't even touch a DDEC, are not comfortable talking about them, and readily admit to being unfamiliar with electronic system |
steve souza (Stevebnut) (24.60.226.230)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 3:09 pm: | |
without listing everybody who responded, I would like to say thank you for both fact and opinion.
I think i will get the engine and take a look at it to size up the matter and make a final decision then.
If a no go i will sell it and fund a tranny change to a v730 and call it done.
I have taken on bigger projects so i will try to think positive and keep confident(i think i can, i think i can, i think i can)
Steve |
ggypsy (65.1.40.15)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 6:21 pm: | |
Its really up to your skill level I presume...this bus conversion thing has really changed...just a few years ago or so if you could not do all the work needed to convert or care for a bus then you did not even consider converting one...you could not afford it ..now it has really changed buses cost nothing and every one seems to want someone else to do the work....ddec swap easiest motor swap I have ever done on a gmc....and this is number 4....to each his own....but then all the real mechanics I ever knew are mostly dead ..and these kids are parts changers not mechanics....gg |
Phil Dumpster (24.17.4.245)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 06, 2004 - 8:10 am: | |
Your biggest problem with transplanting an RTS engine/transmission powerpack into the AM General/Flyer/Flxible coach is the incline of the engine. RTS uses 15 degrees, the other uses 45 degrees. While you might be able to reclock the engine and transmission at the bell housing, I don't know if a 15 degree incline motor will run at a 45 degree incline without problems.
The easiest option for you would be to find a Flyer or an AM General power pack with the engine and transmission you want and swap it into your coach. Most of it is a bolt-in swap.
Some people love DDEC, some people hate it. to each his own. |