| Author | Message | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 529 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 66.87.0.51  Rating: N/A |
Hi Guys - This is a sort of sequel to my "re-setting emergency shutoff" post. Think (?) it's reset but still won't run... maybe fuel? But don't know where the filters are located. And gotta move ASAP. Thanks, Nellie | ||
| Brian Evans (Bevans6)
Registered Member Username: Bevans6 Post Number: 111 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 67.71.38.16 Rating: N/A |
If you are getting copious amounts of white smoke, you have fuel but the shut-off is still shut. If you are getting little to no smoke at all, it's lost it's prime, so refilling the fuel filters is the first step to re-priming. Your MCI MC-5C should have two filters on the right hand side of the engine as you look at it from the rear door. The front filter is the primary filter, the one in behind it is the secondary filter. If you take them off and they are not totally full to the top, you've lost prime. Brian | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 2212 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.71.157  Rating: N/A |
send us some pictures of the flap mechanism. | ||
| Ed Hackenbruch (Ed_hackenbruch)
Registered Member Username: Ed_hackenbruch Post Number: 27 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 166.250.66.43 Rating: N/A |
Only take off one at a time and refill. If you take them both off at the same time you will probably lose prime for sure. Nellie, is there anybody on this board or the other that is close to you and could come help you? | ||
| Donald P H (Eagle19952)
Registered Member Username: Eagle19952 Post Number: 99 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 98.208.157.149 Rating: N/A |
http://www.evolutioncustomcoach.com/forsale/1974mc8/1974mc803.jpg  the white cylinder on the lower left is an atypical filter location, if you look in the center ( of the picture/engine) below the t-stat cross over pipe you will see the fuel pump....start there and follow the hoses back to the fiters. (Message edited by eagle19952 on December 22, 2011) | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 530 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 66.87.0.51 Rating: N/A |
Hi Guys - I'll try to answer your questions... Bri: I had "copious amounts of white smoke" for the first few starts. But now there's hardly any. I do see two filters... the front one (orange)is small (about the size of an auto oil filter) and the rear one is large (and looks like it may be original equipment?). John: Tried to get a photo today but camera isn't cooperating (when it rains it pours!). I'll get some new batts and try again tomorrow. Ed: I'm hoping somebody enroute to Arcadia might be able to swing in. Donald: Great photo and many thanks. Trouble is, I don't know what "t-stat" means... and I don't know one pulley from the other. Any chance you could mark the correct pulley and re-post? Anything I should know before pulling these filters (other than "one at a time")? Like should I shut off the fuel line or anything? Thanks a million. Nellie | ||
| Brian Evans (Bevans6)
Registered Member Username: Bevans6 Post Number: 112 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 67.71.38.16 Rating: N/A |
The correct filters are both fairly large, they can be any colour. About 4" in diameter and 8" tall, they hang down from brackets on the engine cradle. There is a fuel shut-off valve going to the primary filter, the line from it runs off back to the rear of the engine bay - turn the valve so the handle sticks out, that is off. When done, turn it so the handle is in line with the fuel line. | ||
| Brian Evans (Bevans6)
Registered Member Username: Bevans6 Post Number: 113 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 67.71.38.16 Rating: N/A |
If you decide to change the filters, since they may be clogged with algae if you have been sitting a long time, the Donaldson part numbers are P556915, and P556916. One is the primary and one is the secondary. Since these are spin-on filters, they thread on to a nipple in the filter head. You can't get them mixed up - they have a different size thread, so they only fit onto the right filter head. You should carry a couple of each for spares anyway. Brian | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 593 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
Nellie You have been here on this board long enough, that by now you should have picked up on the mantra that manuals for your beast are a necessity and not a luxury. Get to know the basic functions so that you can do the simple things yourself or at least know what the problem might be without getting stranded. | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 531 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 66.87.7.48 Rating: N/A |
Bri- thanks for those part #s. In comparing with what I have, my front filter is a Baldwin #BW5137. Does that sound like a fuel filter to you? Can't yet read the back one (have to clean it. Joe - you're absolutely right. My original manual 'disappeared' during some shop work. By the time I noticed it missing I was three states down the road. I scratched some coin together and ordered another. Three weeks later I received the MCI Parts Manual (nearly useless)which they refused to exchange. No worries, I thought. I'd scanned the maitenance manual onto my computer. Then it crashed and thay failed to burn my scan into the new hard drive... and couldn't retrieve it! That's a long explanation of why I'm presently so ignorant, but I totally agree with you. Maybe next month??? Nellie | ||
| Bob MacIsaac (Wildbob24)
Registered Member Username: Wildbob24 Post Number: 154 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 184.37.49.50  Rating: N/A |
The Baldwin BW5137 is a coolant filter: http://www.finditparts.com/products/64228/baldwin-filters-bw5137 The Baldwin numbers are BF5800, primary and BF5810, secondary BTW, t-stat is shorthand for thermostat. Bob | ||
| Brian Evans (Bevans6)
Registered Member Username: Bevans6 Post Number: 114 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 67.71.38.16 Rating: N/A |
There are three filters on the passenger side of the MC-5C engine. Going from the front of the bus towards the back, there is a coolant filter, then the secondary fuel filter, then the primary fuel filter. I tried to post a picture but it was too large, I will email them to Nellie. Brian | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1415 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 209.240.49.36  Rating: N/A |
If you have AT and PS you probably have six or seven filters so make sure you remove the correct ones. If they are WIX they probably are p/ns 33118 and 33120. If Fram they may be 3118 and 3120, I think. I second the posting in only doing one at a time, then try to get the engine to run. If it won't run after changing both then I agree you have lost prime. | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 2195 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 174.91.141.216  Rating: N/A |
Nellie, e-mail me. address is in my profile, just click on the blue "buswarrior" over there on the left. happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 1438 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.52.189.221  Rating: N/A |
Nellie, Since you say you are getting ready to leave Homestead and the Arcadia Rally starts in a few days, might we see you there? Expiring minds....? Jack | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 533 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 66.87.2.182 Rating: N/A |
Bob, Bri & Gus - I thank you all for helful info. BW, got your email and replied. Many thanks for your kind offer. Hi Jack! Tried to get your phone # but nobody seems to know it. I had it but managed to delete it from my phone. Actually, not leaving Homestead (at the moment) but being switched to another site for the season. (Of course they may kick me out if I can't move this thing). As for Arcadia: Yeah planned to come up for a day or two in the car (like last year). But right now everything's up in the air. Anybody around that might be willing to run down here and help me out? I'd hoped an Arcadia-bound East Coaster might swing through... maybe EdNJ (he's been here before) or Luke (US Coach). But Ed's not coming this year and I missed Luke (he left yesterday). So I'm between a rock and a hard spot. I must move this thing today and it won't cooperate. I'm trying for a reprieve (being it's Christmas and all) but doubt I'll get it. Update: Got it running (limping) yesterday but not nearly good enough to drive anywhere. It finally died of it's own accord, after belching out some ugly black smoke. Good thing is (I guess) the engine sounds fine and really WANTS to run. But it all started out with that #@^@ emergency shutoff, so now I don't know if that's still the problem or if it's bad fuel. I put a jug of fresh fuel in it yesterday (wih some STP additive) and am going to pull the filters today (paying close attention to advice on the board). Luke's head mechanic ('Bill') said I probably don't need new ones (just short of 5000 miles on these) but to just dump them out, refill with good fuel and replace. But if I lose my prime (or already have?), what then? He said to use a garden sprayer (I have one somewhere) and pump fresh fuel into the line. But where? Gahhh! Big question: If I have to pull it outta here, what should I do? I''ve got air connections up front (park brake) and in back (for the rest of the system, I presume). I've used them both and they worked fine. Assuming they still do, will the pressure stay up long enough to move about 2 blocks. Or do I need a constant supply of air? Luv you guys and wish you all A Merry Christmas! Nellie | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 1336 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 173.87.191.172 Rating: N/A |
Black smoke before it croaked definitely lost the prime good luck | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 534 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 66.87.2.182 Rating: N/A |
Crap! Now what? Head in hands, Nellie | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay Post Number: 718 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 70.60.102.99  Rating: N/A |
Regarding air for parking brakes, if you can pressurize your system through the air connection up to 115-120 psi, you should have enough air to release the parking brakes for at least half an hour to an hour (and probably more if your system is in good shape and has no leaks). Of course, if you have major leaks, that could be a problem. Do you have regular air parking brakes (not DD-3's)? If so, do you have the locking T-bolts? If you can put a T-bolt in each parking can (much easier to do if it's aired up and brakes released -- but chock the wheels REALLY GOOD), the park brakes are disengaged until you release the bolts. Good luck on getting it started, though. That would pretty much solve all your problems. | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 1324 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 174.252.170.246  Rating: N/A |
If you would have listened to my first reply you may have not gotten yourself so confused! It is what it is! My opinion, the emergency shut down will hardly flip from just sitting for long periods but losing the prime can! Simple things mean simple fixes, along with common sense! | ||
| Glen Rice (Rgrauto)
Registered Member Username: Rgrauto Post Number: 16 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 98.18.116.142 Rating: N/A |
Nellie I have a MCI 5A and if you need me to walk you through how to prime your bus just give me a call at 706-499-eight,two,9-one, HTH Glen | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 535 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 66.87.7.96 Rating: N/A |
Bruce - sad to say I've still got DD3s... and thanks for the good wishes. Glen - gonna take you up on your offer and many thanks. Ace, ol' buddy - Sorry, but I see no reply from you (first or otherwise). To clear up any confusion, I never said the emergency shutdown flipped from just sitting. Nope, I confessed that I did that all on my own (maybe check my post on the other the thread?). Trying to be responsible operator and end up looking like a dork. But c'mon buddy, lighten up. Hey, 'tis the season... Luv ya'll, Nellie | ||
| clint hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 663 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.236.127  Rating: N/A |
...hell, just think back to the beginning of your epic busjourney and how much cooler Quebec is at this time or year; ~see didn't that help lift your head without your hands pushing or putting on them blue boots ? =I'd say tried T-ing in a fuel pressure gauge after the filters, which you haven't got. (as for priming, perhaps there is a nipple near that shut of valve for priming with what a pump or garden sprayer -good to hear you still busing girl | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 1325 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 174.252.163.169 Rating: N/A |
Nellie, I was the second post replying to your original question! I stated check your filters as it sounds like you lost your prime! It's there, I checked! | ||
| George M. Todd (George_todd)
Registered Member Username: George_todd Post Number: 1310 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 76.94.211.60 Rating: N/A |
BLACK SMOKE IS UNBURNED FUEL, PERIOD. It takes fuel to make smoke, also period. With no fuel, the engine won't try to start, or smoke any color, no matter what. Copious amounts of black smoke means no air to burn the fuel thats being injected, which means the flapper is still closed! G | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 536 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 66.87.7.0 Rating: N/A |
Dear Ace, I stand corrected. I was searching the present thread. And you may well be right... but there are many that disgree too. What's a girl to do? Clint - Spot on! I may be stuck but 'least I ain't freezing. George - makes sense to me, especially after today's efforts (more on that tomorrow)... Nellie | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 594 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
I am with George, If no fuel, there would be no smoke. Black smoke is unburned fuel. I am willing to bet that the flapper is still closed. | ||
| Donald P H (Eagle19952)
Registered Member Username: Eagle19952 Post Number: 100 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 98.208.157.149 Rating: N/A |
merry new year and happy christmas.....where are you ? | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 1440 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.52.189.221 Rating: N/A |
Nellie, my number is 863-444-34zerozero. As far as moving the bus, remember when we drove it from Arcadia to our place when you air compressor was messing up. we filled the tank and made it all the way to our place, so should be no problem moving it a couple blocks. Jack | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 1337 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 173.87.191.172 Rating: N/A |
Nellie, lots of things cause black smoke start with your shut down like the guys say if it latches it is open,check the muffler make sure no nests in it,check the intake for the same, if all is ok prime the damn thing they will blow black smoke when losing prime DD has a name for that irregular fuel distribution and is caused by different things even with bad fuel they blow black smoke and will not run good luck (Message edited by luvrbus on December 25, 2011) | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member Username: Dmd Post Number: 659 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 98.180.91.89  Rating: N/A |
Hey Nellie, just went thru this issue on the side of the road Christmas eve no less! we use an outboard fuel bulb and hose to prime ours. we might be down that way after the New Years. You and Dori can talk music and i will smell like fuel again for a day or two ;) | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1416 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 12.189.32.54 Rating: N/A |
In cold weather with no ether my 671 makes white smoke, never black. | ||
| George M. Todd (George_todd)
Registered Member Username: George_todd Post Number: 1311 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 76.94.211.60 Rating: N/A |
Gus, You're right, its actually white vapor, as the fuel thats being injected doesn't get hot enought to fire at all. The point is that in your case, fuel IS being injected. Did anybody ever see black smoke come out of an air compressor tank? Of course not, because no fuel was being injected while the air was being compressed! If there is no fuel in the engine, its just an air compressor, and can't make any smoke. G | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1419 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 75.107.64.56 Rating: N/A |
George, The first time this happened to me in cold weather I didn't know to use ether. I cranked it at least five times before it started and in the process it laid a complete white smoke screen in an RV park in WY like you see in the movies!! Even after it started it still poured out white smoke for about five minutes. The RV park owner was not happy! After that I learned that just a small squirt of ether in the original ether cup made it start on the first crank with no white or black smoke. Lesson learned. | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1648 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 97.214.117.171  Rating: N/A |
 ....as one "pushes the start button"..."push" the ether button for a brief(sure)second. Should be enuf to get the critter going (blowing white smoke)..... . That's just....,well, what it does, at least in my case. Have one...does that!!!...always has.  FWIW RCB | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1420 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 75.107.64.56 Rating: N/A |
Sounds nice, but 4104s don't have ether buttons. The original used a small bulb full of ether, insert into small cup on side of air box, push cover closed to pierce bulb, ether flows, driver walks to front of bus, pushes starter and hopes for fire. Works well but certainly not as nice as a button! | ||
| Derrick Thomas (Thomasinnv)
Registered Member Username: Thomasinnv Post Number: 40 Registered: 10-2010 Posted From: 184.194.218.17  Rating: N/A |
Nellie, not sure what MCI you have, (did I miss it soemwhere?) but I have a full set of manuals for an 8 in pdf. Too large to email but I could arrange to put them on a file server if your interested. Oh, and I would take Cliffords advice on this one. He is one sharp guy when it comes to all things detroit. I have witnessed black smoke on losing prime on my buddies gmc. He knows what he's talking about. | ||
| Ed Hackenbruch (Ed_hackenbruch)
Registered Member Username: Ed_hackenbruch Post Number: 28 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 166.250.76.17 Rating: N/A |
She has a 5C. Anybody know if she got the problem fixed and the bus moved? |