| Author | Message | ||
| Ace (172.175.51.220) Rating: N/A |
Ok with all the hurricanes and concentration on the generator and the tank installations, our need to start the bus kind of went out the window so we thought since dry weather is here why not start her up. Nope! Batteries are low. Kind of noticed they might be when the bay lights were dim. Ok now what? We don't have anything to jump it off that is 24v other than the bus itself. Should I take each battery out and charge it seperately on a 12v charger or is there an easier method? Need to get her running before the weekend. Ace | ||
| madbrit (67.136.98.250) Rating: N/A |
Ace, The best way is to disconnect the batteries and connect them in parallel as a big 12 volt battery and then charge them as normal. Unless you can find a 24 volt charger, that is the most balanced method of charging them. To simply start it, why not use two good batteries and use them and two sets of good jumper cables, worked for me. I ran mine for a long time with one 8D and a car battery, worked fine for yard work. Peter. | ||
| TWO DOGS (63.185.72.197) Rating: N/A |
disconnect positive on battery,put charger on.. | ||
| Peter E (Sdibaja) (208.57.14.228)
Rating: N/A |
on several occasions I have jumped One battery on the bus off my car and got it fired up. I have also charged One battery at a time without messing with the cables. I know, this "can't work", maybe it only works for me... Peter | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (66.168.168.57)
Rating: N/A |
Ace, no need to disconnect the batteries. Hook a 12 volt quick charger across one twelve volt battery for a couple of hours and then connect it across the other battery for a couple of hours. Just be sure to observe the correct polarity of each battery when connecting the battery charger. Richard | ||
| madbrit (67.136.98.250) Rating: N/A |
It is necessary to reconnect them as a 12 volt unit to charge them at the same rate to avoid an imbalance when you reconnect as 24 volts. Unless you have a means to equalize them afterwards. Yes, often boosting just one of the batteries will give enough volts to get a 2 stroke going as they normally start so easy, a 4 stroke may need good batteries all round. Ace, are both batteries giving the same reading or might you have one going bad? Peter. | ||
| Ace (172.143.61.54) Rating: N/A |
I have FOUR start group 31 batteries that are wired with one pos to pos and then to neg on one side and just the opposite on the other side! Batteries were new in February and I just neglected them by not starting occasionally! Ace | ||
| John that newguy (199.232.240.157) Rating: N/A |
If you charge each independently, each -will- receive a full charge if it is able to (and you'll be able to spot the bad one if it doesn't take the charge). Trying to charge two or more at the same time when you don't know if you have a bad one, is a waste of your time. One fully charged battery will stop the charging process. The charging source doesn't know what you're connecting to it. | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks) (66.167.95.202)
Rating: N/A |
If you really want some brain punishment, read here. | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (65.74.66.104)
Rating: N/A |
Ace, I'm with John. You don't sound like you're in a big hurry. If you hook up a regulating 10 amp battery charger to one battery today, and change it over to the other battery in that string tomorrow, by the day after, that string likely will be full charged. That should be all you need to get it started. Do the same with the other string, and they will all be charged up. Don't count on the coach recharging them very quickly unless you have a three stage requlator. I don't think you have one of those because I'm betting that you would have installed an inverter first. If you had that, you would recharge them with the inverter, instead. You would, wouldn't you? I hope this helps. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher | ||
| FAST FRED (4.245.212.61) Rating: N/A |
Start batts only have ONE life , (down to almost ZERO one time) yours are now trash and will need replacing . A good solar panel (with regulator) will keep up the start batts and perhaps the House set , in just sitting situations. NEW batts will loose about 1% of their 20 hour rate per day, (old abused crap about 3%). 90 days of no charge is even death to Deep Cycle house batts, never mind Starts! FAST FRED | ||
| DrivingMissLazy (66.168.175.51) Rating: N/A |
Ace, I have to respectfully disagree with FF again. One deep discharge will seldom, if ever, or kill a battery in my experience. Many times I have had battery banks sit six months or longer without any appreciable discharge and with no damage to the batteries. BTW, my experience with battery banks is very extensive, dealing with battery banks of 12 volt, 24 volt, 32 volt, 48 volt, 96 volt, 120 volt, 300 volt and 600 volt DC busses. Many times with parallel strings for a total of 200 individual 12 volt units. A sears or equivalent 200 amp quick charger, set on high charge will put enough charge in a battery to be able to start the coach. Just connect the charger clips to each individual plus and minus post of each battery for a couple of hours. If you have a total of four 12 volt batteries, it will take you about eight hours to bring them up enough to start the bus. It really does not matter if they are of exactly equal charge for starting purposes. They will equalize as you drive the bus or get your auxiliary charger connected up, be it inverter or just a 24 volt charger. Richard | ||
| Johnny (4.174.106.135) Rating: N/A |
"Start batts only have ONE life, (down to almost ZERO one time) yours are now trash and will need replacing. A good solar panel (with regulator) will keep up the start batts and perhaps the House set, in just sitting situations. NEW batts will loose about 1% of their 20 hour rate per day, (old abused crap about 3%). 90 days of no charge is even death to Deep Cycle house batts, never mind Starts!" Absolute, complete, and utter tripe. I've seen MANY batteries drained to zero, then hold a charge after being jump-started (like, 2-3x a month at work). I did that yesterday: our Blue Bird TranShuttle (powered by a couple of FF's beloved 8D's) was completely dead, due to sitting for 4 days with the interior lights on. Hook jumpers to another bus, hit that bus's fast-idle for 10 minutes, crank a couple times. The Bird's Cummins ISB lit off immediately. It was driven for ~2 hours, then parked. After sitting for ~3 hours, it fired right up again. This is COMMON (in fact, the same thing happened--with the same bus & bateries--about 2 months ago). I've also had (several times) the spare flatbed at work, with its 4-year-old battery (IIRC, a Die-Hard Weatherhandler) sit for several weeks (occasionally, a month or two), then crank & fire right up. | ||
| Johnny (4.174.106.135) Rating: N/A |
DML has a good idea, BUt, can the charger be left on 200A for 2 hours? Mine can't--that's a "boost" to start a car. Max sustained charge is, IIRC, 50 amps. Also, to maintain the charge, a couple $20 2A lawn tractor trickle chargers should work. I use them when I store 3 cars for the winter. | ||
| DrivingMissLazy (66.168.175.51) Rating: N/A |
Johnny, I believe you are absolutely correct in that it will not maintain 200 amps. The 200 amp is only for jump start rating. Mine has a two hour timer and on high charge rate it only puts out about 40 amps to start with on a fully discharged battery and then tapers down to about 10 amps after a couple of hours. Sorry that I was not more specific on the actual charge rate. Richard | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell) (66.81.50.159)
Rating: N/A |
Ace: I know this doesn't help immediately, but if u do swap meets (big ones) keep an eye out for vendors dealing in chargers. Often a good source for low cost new 24v chargers as they come by them as surplus units from retail stores and such because of the low demand for them. 2 yrs. ago I picked up 2 15a 3 stage chargers for $20ea., new in the boxes, 1 of them is switchable to 20a, 12v, 3 stage (I carry that one as a spare in the bus). | ||
| FAST FRED (4.245.221.69) Rating: N/A |
While deep cycle batts , of the best sort are hard but not impossible ,for the truly dedicated, to destroy, Starts are a different breed. A series 31 truck batt has many very very thin plates , in order to advertise a reasonable CCA rating with very little weight/cost of lead. The thin spacers (frequently just paper) does little to help. When a Start is discharged over 20% and left that way , for a long time the sulphation begins , and even with the Hammer of Hell 200A "quick chargers" , all that's getting charged is the surfaces with out sulphation. Heat from the HOH charger will bring the batt to a boil , and may show very fine voltage readings , but a very large portion of the batterys capacity is GONE FOREVER. Figure half , for each distructive flatening. Yes, it will frequently start an engine , and seem to work OK , but your actually using a battery with a large % of its capacity GONE. Most likely noticed by self discharging much more rapidly , or not cranking with any speed in cold weather. Also noticed by failing to live the 4 or 5 years a normal (not ever flattened) Start batt should. Many folks , not dedicated boondockers , live with ONLY start batts very well. There living on the top 20% of the batt and a pair nice big 8D's will produce 40A for overnight use and seldom have short lives from it. A test of how a batt recovers is NOT if it will start somthing after being hammered , the true test is TIME.(Service Life ). Kill your battery set knowing the perils, FAST FRED | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (208.13.141.32) Rating: N/A |
Well gee whiz Fred, I thought you said that once you drain a start batt dead, you've killed it kaput dead! Now you say it's 50%! Actually, I have heard wives tales in the past claiming 25% service life reductions of batteries drained dead... But y'know I'm with DML and Johnny on this one. We have vehicles that we jump start on a regular basis once or twice a year because they sit and sit and sit, then are used continually for a couple of months, but I am certain we have yet to replace the oem batteries in those units. Oh, and I've seen inside group 31 batts and seen small blocks of wood used as spacers for the plates, but not pieces of paper. Brian | ||
| madbrit (67.136.125.195) Rating: N/A |
Well Ace, There you have every different combination known to every busnut. All different and adamant that they know best. Why not just go and buy a 24 volt battery charger, you are bound to need it again sometime. I bought one from Walmart for about $45, a 12 volt/ 24 volt unit which they immediately discontinued, but it was a Schumacher unit which is readily available, completely automatic and will act as a keeper if set correctly. Try catalogs such as Northern or their commercial edition Great Plains. Peter. | ||
| Johnny (4.174.106.119) Rating: N/A |
Brian, you have to realize that Fred simply has absolutely no clue. | ||
| John that newguy (199.232.240.182) Rating: N/A |
Fred's right about shortening the life of a "start type" battery if you deplete it before recharging (even if he may be a bit off-base about other things regarding batteries). I've had to replace enough batteries to know what Fred's talking about. I also know that the Deep Cycle batteries are better designed to take the torture I and others like me, put them through. You guys are really arguing about a matter that's already been proven times over. It's the reason for the design, manufacture and availability of a deep cycle battery for that specific use. All this is way off the topic anyway. Ace just wanted to know the best way to recharge his 12 volt batteries. Poor Ace probably fell asleep by now. Poor guy. Let's wake him. HEY ACE. | ||
| Johnny (4.174.106.119) Rating: N/A |
"Fred's right about shortening the life of a "start type" battery if you deplete it before recharging" True, sorta. This: "Heat from the HOH charger will bring the batt to a boil , and may show very fine voltage readings , but a very large portion of the batterys capacity is GONE FOREVER. Figure half , for each distructive flatening." ...is 100% pure, unadulterated crap. Yes, a deep discharge will reduce the capacity, but it won't kill them unless done many times. | ||
| John that newguy (199.232.240.182) Rating: N/A |
Not to nit-pic, but I don't see the difference between: 1."shortening the life of" and 2. "a very large portion of the battery's capacity is gone forever" and 3. "won't kill them unless done many times" It's not good to run a "start battery" down that far before recharging. Even the manufacturers warn against it and supply a "deep cycle" substitute if their battery is to be used in that manner. I don't know why there's any argument here, it's a fairly well documented issue, isn't it? Fred may have over generalized, but the essence (smell?) of his statement is correct. | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior) (64.229.210.244)
Rating: N/A |
Hello battery afficiandos. You may go ahead and do whatever you want to your batteries in the warm land of stars and stripes, (Alaska excluded, they're really confused Canadians with Russian backgrounds!) but you better have your fur lined thong with you if you come up here to the land of moose, beaver and maple trees in winter. Start batteries will show you very clearly that you treated them with less than royal attention when the temps go south of zero, and I do mean farenheit, not celsius. First big freeze sorts out who treats their stuff well, and who freezes in the dark. Good commercial fleets up here automatically replace the batteries, as part of the maintenance, regardless if there was an identified culprit, if a driver reports the need for a boost. Guarentee of fresh performance/reliability, and lots less than a late load, or road call. In warm climes, loss of capacity is not the issue that it is where it gets cold. Choice is yours, and make it an informed one, depending on what operating conditions you might unexpectedly find you and your coach in. happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Ace (172.138.89.104) Rating: N/A |
Ok took the hard (easy) way out and charged each battery seperately for about 45 minutes on 40amps. Reconnected all batteries and coach started right up with NO problems! Thanks to the know it alls!  Ace | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (67.76.66.218) Rating: N/A |
Glad to hear it Ace! Charging them that way would have been my choice too... If I only had one charger that is. (grin) Brian | ||
| DrivingMissLazy (66.168.175.51) Rating: N/A |
You're welcome. Richard |