| Author |
Message |
John that newguy (199.232.240.239)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 9:32 am: | |
Although I may sell the MC9 I now own and buy another bus
pour my heart into, I have a question regarding the MCI automatic
transmission.
My MC9 had been converted from a standard to an Allison
740 automatic. The shift lever is easy to knock into while getting
into or out of the driver's seat and it's very easy to knock it into
any of the drive positions. What makes it worse, is the fast idle
does not trip off when the bus is placed in gear (if the brake's
been set). If I were to keep this bus and continue the project,
I'd fix the idle and tie it to the neutral safety. But I'm not failure
with the MC9 automatic shift lever layouts. Are they all positioned
in a manner that makes it vulnerable to accidental engagement?
If so, how did anyone resolve the issue?
(ooooh, why didn't I buy that Eagle?) |
Jim-Bob (12.46.52.74)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 9:44 am: | |
John, we have an Eagle with a 740. The shifter is located on the left of the driver on the panel under the window. No chance to knock it into gear. |
John that newguy (199.232.240.239)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 10:14 am: | |
Gawd, I always loved the Eagles.
The MC9 I presently own has the lever situated beyond the edge
of the driver's seat, at it's right side. It's near impossible to enter
or exit the seat without hitting the lever. I can't understand why
MCI wouldn't have added some sort of a neutral locking
position, but I am not familiar with the MCI automatics and
don't know if mine is some sort of a cobbed configuration.
If I keep this one, I will want to fix that lever's operation. |
DaveD (142.46.199.30)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 10:43 am: | |
John,
It's easy to knock the shift lever. In fact I recently spent a fair amount of time trying to figure out why my engine wouldn't crank; until my wife pointed out that the shift lever wasn't in neutral.
If the interlocks are properly connected and working, your bus should switch off the fast idle whenever the parking brake button is disengaged or whenever the shift lever is moved to any position other than neutral. That's something I would fix ASAP to avoid a mishap.
I would like, at some time, to move the lever to the left of the drivers seat. I'm not sure how big a job that is and I hate to mess with something that's working.
FWIW
Dave Dulmage
(MC-8) |
John that newguy (199.232.240.239)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 11:38 am: | |
Thanks Dave! Now that I know this is an inherent problem
design of MCI, I can feel more at ease that my bus isn't of
"special" design. I have enough "special problems" with it already.
Fixing the neutral safety was high on the agenda until I began
to consider selling it and buying another. I've fixed quite a few
things already, so the next guy will have a -little less- to do.
By the way.... I did the same thing trying to figure out why
the bus wouldn't start! It's too, too damned easy to hit. I can't
imagine having buses in service with such poor concern for
safety issues. |
Jim Ashworth (Jimnh) (172.156.145.234)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 2:04 pm: | |
A simple fix might be to add some height to the panel on which the shift lever and parking brake knob are mounted. Perhaps a tray with a drinkholder hole? Even if you tie in the hi-idle to the neutral switch it will take some time and a good bang from the transmission before the engine actually gets down to 600 rpm.
Jim |
Ken_MC8 (Lugnut) (67.248.200.232)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 3:25 pm: | |
My 740 shift lever sits just below the drivers wrap around seat frame on the right inside the partition on my mc8. With the notches between gears that requires pulling the lever to shift I have yet to knock it into another gear while entering/ exiting in the 3 years I've had it. Seems to be a pretty good design to me. Still, I would like it on the left better but as Dave says... why mess with something that's working. |
DaveD (142.46.199.30)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 3:26 pm: | |
Actually the fast idle is immediately disengaged if the lever is switched out of neutral. It's not dependent on an internal action in the transmission, but on the disconnecting of power to the fast idle solenoid. It's very important that this interlock is working. Due to the nature of the fast idle mechanism, the engine can go to wide open if the accelerator pedal is pushed while fast idle is engaged. |
madbrit (67.136.103.51)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 4:25 pm: | |
There should be a sliding switch attached to the mechanism of the shift lever. This should do all the switching.
I have a brand new shifter sitting here which I put in the "Flea Market" awhile back if anyone is interested. Comes with the switch and everything.
Peter. |
on te road (209.247.222.22)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 6:12 pm: | |
Try to raise the seat up a little so your butt won't hit it. I have driven MCI for a lot of years and like it were it is, and have never knocked it ito gear. |
bill moldenhauer (12.73.233.45)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 6:22 pm: | |
there is a small panel with a stainless steel tube on top next to the shifter on my mc-9
it is almost impossible to hit entering or leaving
was this removed on some of your buses? |
Ken_MC8 (Lugnut) (67.248.200.221)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 7:47 pm: | |
That seat frame I mentioned is tha stainless steel tubing Bill is talking about. It provides good protection for the shifter. I had considered removing it but after I thought about it I decided to keep it & just frame around it behind the seat. It's nice & sturdy & should provide good protection from stuff flying forward in case of a fast stop. |
BrianMCI96A3 (65.160.215.73)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 8:16 pm: | |
Thankfully for me, my automatic is electronic shift and has a keypad mounted to the left of the dashboard
John, you COULD take some of that beer you've been buying and stack it up around your shifter to protect it... (grin)
In fact both the transmission and shifter are made by outside suppliers, MCI just happens to use them in their coaches.
You could, fairly easily, replace your shifter with a unit that has a release mechanism and will not go into gear until the mechanism is activated.
Brian |
John that newguy (199.232.240.77)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 9:31 pm: | |
If I decide to keep this unit, I'll probably do exactly that, Brian!
Thanks for the tip.
(and thanks again DaveD, for the reassurance that I'm not the only
one with the problematicautomatic). |
Jim-Bob (12.46.52.74)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 3:17 pm: | |
I am converting an Eagle which, like all buses, comes with the bar/grab handle around the driver's seat. I had thought to remove it but after driving our 4104 for 5 years, I found that everyone grabs the back of the driver's seat to steady themselves if the bar is not there. VERY AGGRAVATING as the seat turns a little from side to side each time. (Locking swivel base has a little normal play) I have long ago decided that there has to be a bar or some kind of handle at the back & side of the driver's seat in the 'bird. |
Buswarrior (Buswarrior) (64.229.208.24)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 8:33 pm: | |
Hello John the new guy.
You say that the automatic is a retrofit from a stick.
Every one of those that I have seen mount the automatic shifter over the stick shift hole in the floor, which puts the shifter much further forward than stock. This saves the converter from filling one hole and making another, but makes getting into the seat a bit of a pain for the driver.
The shifter should be beside the seat, between the seat and the modesty panel that the parking brake control is mounted on.
At the most, only just the first of stock MC9 shifters did not have a shift lock mechanism built into the shifter. Little T-handle to pull. The earlier MC8 etc shifter is somewhat freer to move, with the gears having different resting places in a notched side plate, but still requiring the shifter to be pushed sideways to leave neutral.
The fact that the fast idle was not interlinked with the auto install makes me immediately think this install was not done very thoroughly and one wonders what else they didn't do right.
It sure sounds like that tranny and the shifter were just tossed in there on an "as cheap as possible" program.
happy coaching!
buswarrior |
John that newguy (66.129.2.9)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2004 - 3:34 pm: | |
With exception from a corroborating case (DaveD), I have a feeling you're
right on the money, BW.
I've found more than one "issue" with the manner that this bus was
converted to automatic; the placement of that lever is just a "minor detail"
among the more blatant ones.
There is no detent between neutral and drive 3 or 4. You can't
pull back to neutral without a detent, but you can shift into gear
without one. Odd... And it is indeed, placed over what had been the
original hole for the stick-shift.
All that can be modified and made better.... And just one more thing
to do, if I decide to keep this thing.
Thanks for the input. The fact it'd been swapped over should have
been enough to make me aware of this oddity... Oh well.. |