| Author |
Message |
pete (64.12.116.135)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 7:35 am: | |
After a long summer and alot of use my 4 deep cycle house batteries are done, a friend said the gell cell are the only way to go cause of the not pulling them and checking the water levels..plus the life is longer. I have limited space, the bay the batteries are in a air tank holding bay of a 4501, so the smaller gell cells would make life a bit easier..any suggestions? |
Jerry Campbell (67.140.252.55)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 8:32 am: | |
Go to glass mats. |
BrianMCI96A3 (69.34.170.233)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 8:40 am: | |
I have an optima glass mat battery that I've had for 7 years, it has sat in one barely used car or another and been charged only twice in all that time.
It still is a damn good battery!
Brian |
Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay) (209.247.222.81)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 9:16 am: | |
__. Brian, what are the model names or part numbers for the Optima glass mat batteries that you've been using? Are there choices for amp/hour, etc?
Thanks, Bruce Henderson, Wallace NC |
Earl-8-Ky (207.162.163.20)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 10:01 am: | |
I do a lot of dry camping and I use 6 grp 31 gel cells. I never stop at camp grounds when traveling. I have a inverter that runs my fridge, TV and the lights. I still have enough power to make coffee and toast the next morning. I would never use any thing else. Works for me. |
madbrit (67.136.84.54)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 12:52 pm: | |
I am also using an old red top starting battery, which is about 10 years old and has sat in race cars and motorhomes for months on end and never gone flat on me yet.
The deep cycle Optima batteries are the ones with the yellow and blue tops.
According to the Summit catalog:
yellow top: 950 cold cranking amps. $172.69
blue top (marine): 750 cca. $149.69 and has stainless steel studs.
There is also a yellow top Group 31 which has 900 cca and rated at 1,125 cranking amps with 155 reserve capacity, weighs 59.8 lbs and is 13" x 6 1/2" x 9 3/8". $189.95.
Obviously more details on the Optima website. Dimensions are 10" x 6.8" x 7.8" high.
Peter. |
Henry Draper (146.129.147.120)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 1:05 pm: | |
Check out this site: http://www.phrannie.org/battery.html
Lots of great information about batteries.
Henry Draper
'64 Eagle
Edmonds, WA |
Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 5:18 pm: | |
With all respect, your deep cycle batteries SHOULD have lasted more than one summer. Perhaps something is not quite right with the discharge/recharge cycle, or perhaps the batteries were defective, or just old.
What seems to kill deep cycle lead-acid batts is either overcharging, undercharging or over discharging beyond about 50% capacity, from which they seem never to fully recover, or physically boiling them dry.
Could there be something particular about your application that is destroying batteries? Would not take much, even just one kid with a computer or TV set can ruin your summer. Or is it possible there is some sort of mismatch with your system? Good luck. |
pete (205.188.116.135)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 8:15 pm: | |
Henry..
there 3 years old and always used for dry camping..we dont hook up unless its home to use the land line...the 2 back batteries were dry when i got to them in aug..i think the drain on the front 2 from the dry units trashed the lot..thats why i asked about the gell cell..
what are glass mats?
pete |
Lin (66.245.216.207)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 12:14 am: | |
I just installed an Optima battery in my car and was also wondering if their deep cycle version would be good for my house batteries. Obviously, they are a lot more expensive than the old golf cart ones I have now. The zero maintainence feature would be nice, but can you really be much less careful about how much you let them discharge? |
FAST FRED (4.245.230.130)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 7:24 am: | |
The big advantage of $$$$ batts is there ability to accept a very rapid charge.
If you dry camp and have a DC 300A genset, they would be worth while if short noisemaker runtimnes was the goal.
With most chargers limited to about 100A or loads less , its a lot to pay for batts that are a bit harder to kill.
FAST FRED |
Marc Bourget (209.142.38.81)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 9:45 am: | |
I was surfing the www.glacierbay.com site referenced in another post regarding insulation.
In explaining charging system design they stressed at one point basing the charging capacity based on the acceptance ratio (A/R herin) of the batteries. The ratio is the rate of charge the batts will accept compared to the total size of the battery bank. They stress this because properly sizing the charging system to the battery bank reduces charging time, all else being considered.
Lead Acids have a 25% A/R rate, Gels 40% and AGMs up to 100%
Glacer Bay is a pretty credible business. They tell it like it is, straight, not skewed or slanted.
For instance they quickly pointed out that an AGM bank of 600 A/H would accept 600A charge, but that few, if any alternators could put out that rate. Paired Alts would work, but with special care and to consider, when making choices, that Temps effect both batts and the Alt are negatively affected by Temp increases.
Lots of information on that site that I'd forgotten or new to me.
Good Review
Onward and Upward
Marc Bourget |
FAST FRED (4.245.230.226)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 2:32 pm: | |
Glacier Bay is most concerned with cruising sail boats , where almost any amount will be spent to keep from running the engine,
BUT a lifestyle of cool beer and frozen food is expected.
Its not Money (just currency) so most sail folks will "bite the bullet" for a big buck system.
There info IS good , but the focus is not RV's.
FAST FRED |
pete (64.12.116.135)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 9:59 am: | |
lets try this
does anyone leave their land line plugged in? i have a converter with a wizard on it so not to overcharge it and it is a better model of inverter...i was told with the wizard its better to keep the batteries maiuntained? anyone? |
Marc Bourget (209.142.38.81)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 11:59 am: | |
Pete,
If you have a quality inverter then you've be exposed to some of this [summarized] info - which is directed more to newbys and lurkers.
In order to answer this accurately, one would have to know the charging profile for the wizard and what size bank and type of batteries you're using. (I'm not familiar with the wizard, btw)
In brief summary, you initially charge lead acid batts at an AMP rate of 20-25% capacity, then at an intermediate rate and, finally, you need to get the charging voltage up to 14.4V to fully charge the batts but this is at a low amp rate (below 5% capacity) and if you leave it at that voltage, you'll damage things.
So, what does the wizard to to "polish off" a charging cycle? Will it take the charging volatge to 14.4? When does it stop the 14.4 V rate? What Voltage will it "maintain" the batts at?
Onward and Upward
Marc Bourget |
pete (152.163.100.132)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 3:18 pm: | |
Marc,
the 4 bqatteries i have in there are 850 cca interstate batteries...not the best but pretty good, they run in parrellel. The charger is a 60 amp which will take the bank up to full. once there the wizzard will put the batteries in "store" mode, every once and a while it will put it into boost to bring everything to full charge.There was no info on setting the amount of batteries which it was to charge. along with their strength i wondering about them cause ripping mine out to fill them is a task not fit for man nor beast.
Pete |
Marc Bourget (209.142.38.81)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 5:21 pm: | |
Pete,
Would you feel like recording some data the next time you are recharing the batts after a serious period of use? I'd like to know starting Amps and Voltage checked and recorded on like a 15 minute interval basis, all the way through the "boost" stage, if you can.
BTW, is the "boost" mode an equalizing charge above 14.4 volts?
Thanks, Marc |
Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (65.74.66.104)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 1:14 am: | |
Pete, batteries that have a CCA rating are not the best for house use. When the CCA rating appears on them, they are telling you that there are many thin plates and that they are likely low antimony.
True deep cycle batteries have thicker plates and separators, so they don't provide very good cranking current for a given capacity and they are high in antimony. They are much less likely to suffer a shorted cell.
These will be rated in amp hours and they can tolerate much deeper discharges without the damage that starting batteries will have. The more expensive ones will even have cycle ratings.
There are batteries that don't require any servicing other than maintaining their charge. Some cannot tolerate much overcharge. For your situation, you want some that are not very sensitive to overcharging and don't need any maintenance.
Good luck with your search.
Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
Suncatcher |
Marc Bourget (209.142.38.81)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 3:51 am: | |
Tom,
I understood that antimony is alloyed with lead to stiffen the plates so they can be made thinner. This helps thin plates avoid warping on heavy current loads (chg or dischrg)and the possibility of shorting. The thinner plate thickness is a characteristic of start rather than deep cycle batteries.
IIRC, Smead tells us that antimony in the plates speeds sulfation and self discharge rates.
Can you help me out, here?
Marc Bourget |
Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (65.74.66.104)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 1:51 am: | |
Marc, you've got a source of information that I haven't seen. However, all the references to antimony that I've seen before yours indicated that deep cycle batteries would have much more in them.
I just did a google search of the topic and there were several useful writeups. From what I found, the antimony is used as a hardender and to increase deep cycle performance. And, deep cycle batteries do self discharge much more than starting batteries.
For starting batteries, calcium is used instead of antimony for hardening. While it has lower self discharge, sometimes the postive plates can grow. Without saying so, I would think this would be a reason for the rather common dead cells in starting batteries.
The sulfation is a consequence of the self discharge of lead antimony plates, I would think. Each of the references that I saw were clear that deep cycles should stay on a float charge when not in use.
I didn't see any explanation for the tin alloy but it was mentioned with the part about alloying plates to harden the lead.
Ample power was helpful, as usual.
Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
Suncatcher |