| Author |
Message |
g
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 1:56 am: | |
I have been told a 1981 MCI 9 with 6v92 that smokes needs new liner seals? Any ideas of how to confirm that suggestion or are there other possibilities? This bus sat for several months and never really saw difficult work? How about an injector?...bad fuel? It will run but load makes it some pretty bad.
thanks |
jimmci9 #2
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 7:27 am: | |
a detroit diesel doesn't have "liner seals".... the o-ring seals in the water part of the block won't cause it to smoke... so someone (very unknowlegeable) is guessing.... take it to a PROFESSIONAL 2 stroke mechanic and PAY for an analysis...lots of things will cause smoke..blue smoke? white smoke?? black smoke? grey smoke?? all mean something different...some are serious, some aren't |
g
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 8:27 am: | |
Thanks jimmci9.
I appreciate your comments. I plan on having the bus looked at by the professional you suggest. I am wondering, since the bus runs, that perhaps the cause is less catastrophic than they believe.
Would something like a stuck injector or bad fuel cause such a condition? |
g
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 8:29 am: | |
jimmci9
What has been your experience with this particular bus style as a candidate for conversion? I would like to know the strengths and weakness of this bus model. International Bus suggests this model is one of the best models for conversion, any thoughts you could share would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance! |
Jim Stewart (H3jim)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 10:36 am: | |
What color smoke?
for the cost tradeoff, a good clean, well maintained MCI 9 is hard to beat. It biggest drawback is that its only 96" wide. Lots of people have converted, are currently converting them. Was that a 6V92 T or TA? or just the plain 6v without the turbo?
The turbo does much better at higher altitudes. |
g
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 10:48 am: | |
I have asked those questions of the current owner. I have yet to see the bus. I understand that it is a turbo motor. It sounds like they do not know what the actual issue is if they think it is "liner seals". Once I get the answers to the questions regarding the engine, I will post those here and get your expert opinions.
For the novice converter, what is the difference between a 6v92T and a TA?
Thanks
G |
TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 11:06 am: | |
G...........
Don't just set your sights on one bus...just because it's right around the corner from your house...look at a bunch of them...I for one feel that if it was something simple,they would have fixed it...so..if you buy that particular bus...it must be at a price cheap enough to pay for a 5000.00 engine overhaul...nice buses are everywhere......SHOP....compare |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 11:25 am: | |
Yeah,
I've been buillding a database of just busses going on Ebay.
If you can scratch up $15-20K you can find an insanely nice bus.
There is one that TD posted last week is at $16K now, or this one: 2494208563 that could have gone for $18,500, look at the condition of the driver's station and the bays. Makes me crazy.
I make a lot of comparisons between bussing and boating, and one thing I've learned about boats, there's nothing in the world more expensive than a real cheap one.
gary |
TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 11:38 am: | |
TRUE,....but gary you did a no no...e**y items are not mentioned here...but there is also a nice gray one there.............just because it's convienient....or just because you can buy it cheap is NO reason...even if you have to fly 1000 miles to get a GOOD one... |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 11:46 am: | |
Actually, that's why I didn't post the one that is currently for sale. the one I posted is no longer for sale. I didn't know how this would hold up against the Ebay protocol, but it's just a reference.
In any case, I would need one heck of a good reason to buy a bus with a sick engine.
gary |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 12:37 pm: | |
Gary,
My experience is that a boat is a big hole in the water that you throw money in. Do busses fit in that same category?
Richard |
TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 12:38 pm: | |
There are two over here by me...one in Dodge city & one in Sedalia,MO.....I'll go looking at them with you if you pay my expences |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 12:41 pm: | |
Richard,
More like a moving object you throw money at. whether or not the money sticks, you're still out the cash.
How's that fit?
Gary |
Ed Jewett (Kristinsgrandpa)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 12:48 pm: | |
G, I see no one answered your question about the difference betweem T and TA. T is turbocharged and TA is turbocharged and aftercooled. The aftercooling cools down the hot compressed air to make it more dense, thus more power. Kinda like raising the compression ratio.
Ed |
Airless in Mississippi
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 2:15 pm: | |
Boat is a acronym...
Bring
out
another
thousand |
Marc Bourget
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 4:18 pm: | |
Adding to Ed's post:
The "TA" block is different from the NA -normally aspirated or "T" block.
The TA is modified to accept the intercooler and the coolant supply it requires.
TA engines, at a minimum, have lower compression pistons also. I'll defer to others about the camshafts. I believe TA's will have "bigger" injectors as well, to compensate for the denser air charge.
Onward and Upward
Marc Bourget |
Tony H. (Bluegrass)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 8:21 pm: | |
I have always thought that the T Is with a Turbo and the TA Is Turbo with Aftercooler, Dont know for sure. |
John that newguy
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 9:43 pm: | |
Hey "g"..
For what it's worth..... "less catastrophic" is -not- the criteria you
should be seeking. "Not catastrophic" would be better; no serious
problems would be best.
Aside from the engine (that smokes), you'll want to have the entire
bus inspected from bumper to bumper. Things like air beams, support
bushings, brake cans, compressor parts, rear end and pinion wear...
Those problems can take you down poverty hill in high gear, if you're
going to pay a mechanic to make the repairs.
Take the bus to a bus garage for a complete inspection. These
buses have been bought by the original buyer to make a profit.
When it failed to do that, that original owner sold it. How far
down the list are you? You're buying a well used, worn and torn
piece of very heavy equipment that's seen it's better days.
And if/when any owner tells you it needs something, don't automatically
tell yourself that he doesn't know crop about what he owns. He's
trying to sell it to you; whatever he's telling you is the tip of the
iceberg. Unless you want to say goodbye to Rose, say goodbye
to the Titanic and move on. Or at the very, absolute least.... Take
it to a bus garage and heed their analysis.
Cheers. |
Derek (Derek_l)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 10:05 pm: | |
John, I have to disagree with you on your point that the only reason that companies sell buses is they stop making a profit..
I know of many a company out here that only run '96 and newer buses... Why? The old MCI 102C3 are still making a profit... 9's are still making a profit... I've even seen 5's in for profit service...
They are only keeping newer buses for looks.
Otherwise, how would any of you buy a bus that was in any shape OTHER than needing a *complete* rebuild? |
John that newguy
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 10:44 pm: | |
By sheer luck, Derek?
The bottom line Derek, is always "the bottom line".
When the original owner finds himself spending more to run the bus
than he makes running the bus, he sells it.
I have read more posts on this site, telling of all the costs of
rehabilitating their coach: engine swaps, transmission swaps, rear
end swaps, air compressor repairs, suspension system repairs....
A newbie to this glorious hobby should know the pitfalls before he
buys into it.
You don't just go out and buy a bus and hope for the best. It's a
commercial vehicle that's been well worn, well used and often very
mistreated by lack of preventive maintenance by every owner since
the original one.
I drove for a couple of companies that said a prayer for the bus as
you drove out of the barn with it. That was the extent of their
"preventive maintenance".
And -that- is the bus a newbie will likely end up with, if he is not
paying attention to details; letting a qualified bus garage inspect
it, and being very mindful of the fact that what he's buying is not
some "used car" or RV. It's a commercial vehicle that was designed
to do one thing: Be of dependable service to the original purchaser.
Beyond that, it can be a sinkhole in the cash box.
Egads man... When did any bus operator sell a bus because he
was tired of it's design? |
Derek (Derek_l)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 31, 2004 - 12:31 am: | |
They sold it when the design looked old. Tourists could care less if you've got a 4-71 in it, as long as it looks flashy they're happy. If they see other tour groups out there with the new Prevosts and MCI's, while they're riding around in an old 9, they're not happy. When they're not happy, the tour companies aren't happy, and when they tour companies aren't happy, the operator isn't happy.
I never said that having a bus inspected was a bad idea; I know that the coaches are going to be *roughed up*. Hell, you should see some of the ones I see in fleets, going out every day.
However by the same token, they're not all the piles of scrap metal you seem to be making them out to be. Working in perfect, like new condition? No, of course not. Working? Yes. Chances are, working decently? I would hope so, for your sake, if it isn't, I would keep looking. |
Phil Lyons
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 31, 2004 - 10:32 pm: | |
There seems to be be two parallel points of view which don't seem to cross in these disucssions. One is that Motorhomes are stick/stables, and falling apart. Unsafe. Some bus folk will state this when a motorhome is mentioned. But then, the bus is mentioned as a money pit, falling apart. But at least, safe.
I have owned a motorhome for years, and am now picking up an MC9, which I had inspected. So, I will have both perspectives I suppose. Is a bus more dependable, with just much more expensive parts? Is it less dependable? My old Gulfstream had very few mechanical problems. Is that question not answerable? Is there a general answer? Just wondering.
My perspective from a distance, was that I would pay much more for the parts, but that once something was fixed, it stayed fixed.
Best Regards,
Phil |
Stan
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 01, 2004 - 9:05 am: | |
One bus company (with 1300 buses) that I bought from told me they do a major inspection every six months and sell the bus if is old and will need major work by the next inspection. In other words they sell the bus if they are not quite sure they will get another 100,000 miles.
This is way beyond the milage the average motorhome user will put on in a lifetime so most of his maintenance will be deteriorated rubber components. A conversion doesn't have to have an 'as new' running gear. If it passes a commercial bus inspection the safety items are OK and if it burns some oil, compare the price of the oil to the cost of a rebuild.
Any commercial operator who fails to maintain his bus in good condition deserves the wrath of the trial lawyers when they have an accident. |