| Author | Message | ||
| J.B.Phillips (Jbp)
Rating: N/A |
Hi one and all. I am a newbie to this renowned group. I have been watching for a better part of a year as I am putting my Crown together. I have a serious question. How much does black water (For lack of a better word) weigh? I know from watching your board that plain water weighs 8.3 lbs per gallon but I have a platform to weld in place for the tank and just wondered what I would have to do to be on the safe side for fabrication purposes for a 66.5 gallon black water tank. J.B.P. | ||
| Bob Oakman (Bobsbus)
Rating: N/A |
I honestly believe that a platform fabricated using 1 1/2" steel tubing would be more than sufficient. Square frame with a cross-support every 16" or so. Just guessing, as I have fabricated many things outa' that stuff and it seems very strong when tied together. Good welds are important. | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
8.3 is fine, but always difficult to compute when you're in the middle of more important thoughts. When we were considering making our own aquarium some many years ago, we were told to always figure a gallon of water to weigh ten (10) pounds. Why? Because it's easy to compute quickly in one's head and over-compensating never hurts, but under-compensating will. 66.5 gallons would be around 665 pounds. Figure that water beating up and down and side to side, and you've got some considerable weight movement. Most RVs don't have waste tanks that exceed around 40 gallons each (black and grey) and the tanks are rarely full to the top. When we bus crazed fools plan, we go much bigger. I planned to use a 120-150 gallon waste tank. That's a lot of weight! I would pay close attention to the manufacturer's ratings, load recommendations, and mounting suggestions. Waste water's not only messy, it's destructive. | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary)
Rating: N/A |
"Pint's a pound" rule and insert a 20% error in your tank calculations. Gary | ||
| R.J.(Bob) Evans (Bobofthenorth)
Rating: N/A |
If you guys would use real gallons instead of that wimpy thing you Yanks call a gallon then you could legitimately use 10# to the gallon. :-) | ||
| FAST FRED Rating: N/A |
The answer to this problem is not in what the Black tank weighs full , It is in the accelerations the tank will be subject to , and how often. G forces will raise the tank load depending on the size speed bump or pothole you fall into. Probably 4 G of vertical acceleration would be the max you could get , but the HORIZONTAL loading (you hit the bridge abutment , or Kenny Kenworth T bones you at speed. An auto can face 10G , but I think a coach with less heavy framing would be more like an aircraft ) ez to fold), and only see half that. There used to be a study of bus crashes by one of the "safety" studies on line , perhaps they would have a better handle on coach G loading. FAST FRED | ||
| BrianMCI Rating: N/A |
Note: A pint is 16 ounces of volume, and a pound is 16 ounces of weight. and while the popular rhyme "A pint's a pound, the world around" can help you remember this, do keep in mind that they're not really equivalent... AND, strictly speaking, "A pint is a pound, the WORLD around." is not true. It IS true to say that 1 ml of water is 1 gram, because that is the definition. And, in current US usage, 8 ounces makes a cup, 2 cups make a pint, two pints make a quart, 4 quarts make a gallon. In the British empire, there are 20 (fluid) ounces to an imperial pint, making the Imperial gallon 25% bigger than the American gallon. Sooo, while A pound is 454 grams and A US wet pint is 471 grams, (APPROXIMATELY the same...)the British pint is 567 grams, which is definitely more. Thus, pitted against one another is the US claim of "a pint is a pound the world around" versus the English statement that "a pint of water weighs a pound and a quarter". AND this is only for water. Since the same amount of differing materials will weigh different amounts, this can only be regarded as an extremely approximate conversion. So, in fact, using English measurements, the British claim is far more of an accurate statement, because a pint of foam will not weigh a pound and depending on your geographical point of reference: A pint of foam won't get anyone intoxicated OR... People are SURE to get upset being handed a pint of foam! While I appreciate the "gravity" of the situation in regards to the black tank my own feeling is that in this one area I'd rather be safe than sorry, so if attributing 10 pounds per gallon of "honey" nets me a black water tank that is very much overbuilt... Truthfully, I believe I will rest safer at night for it! Brian | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Rating: N/A |
<inthebritishempire,thereare20(fluid)ouncestoanimperialpint,makingtheimperialgallon25%bigg erthantheamericangallon.> (Dammn, I hate trying to quote on this software ... but DON'T change anything, I@n!) __. Well, *right* but not correct. There are 20 ounces in an Imp pint versus the 16 in the US -- but the ratio is not 4/5; it's 5/6. How can that be? __. It all goes back to the origin. In England in the old days, there were two gallons - the wine gallons and the beer gallon. As it turn out, the wine gallon has 16 ounces to the gallon and, as this matches dry measurements, the US picked this up as the US official gallon. The British standardized on the beer gallon. But the US picked a different "fluid ounce". Because of this difference, a "16oz US pint" has the same amount of fine, dark ale (well, any fluid but this is MY story and I'll use my own fantasies) as about 18.1 or 18.2 UK ounces. __. So, you can't compare 16 ounces to 20 ounces because they're different ounces. __. The true difference is about 1.21 to 1.00 or 6 US gallons equals 5 Imp. gallons. Thanks, I'll have a Theakstons Bitter, please. ' | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
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I said "The true difference is about 1.21 to 1.00 or 6 US gallons equals 5 Imp. gallons. " __. Almost correct. That should have been "6 US gallons equals 5 Imp. gallons, approximately. " | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary)
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Where do "Fifths" fit in to all this Bruce? I'll have a double Oban, neat with a Murphy's chaser. (Socts/Irish) Gary | ||
| Derek (Derek_l)
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What happened to multiply by 8, or am I seeing things again? | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Multiply by 8.3, derek, then add a 20% error factor. Or just use the simple "10 per" and get the job finished. | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A |
poo.......poo.......poo WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !!!!! (Editor's note: ***tapping finger on desk*** Ahem... are we having fun, Mr Two Dogs, sir???) | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj)
Rating: N/A |
Hello J.B.; With my 1974 Crown 10-wheeler, I am figuring on 10 pounds per gallon to cover the black water and the weight of the tank, baffles and mounts. THEN...I am taking an additional fudge factor to allow for the dynamic workings of the fluid, particularly when only half full and sloshing... ...back and forth and up and down. PLUS, in my case, the water and holding tanks will be quite large (heavy) and mounted INSIDE the Crown... ...overtop the rear eight (8) drivers, REQUIRING heavy mounts tying directing to the coaches main frame. Like already said, the dynamics of... ...road shocks/movement can add up to considerable forces being applied to the tanks and mounts. Anyway, we are planning on multiple... ...100 gallon fresh, gray and black tanks. Tank baffles required/desired also. Soosss...figure on 10 lbs/gal., PLUS a 50% fudge factor...PLUS... ...maybe tying directly to the frame, then go on from there. CROWNS FOREVER!!! | ||
| BrianMCI Rating: N/A |
Since the profanity filter has died, I'd like to give you the original version of... A pint of foam won't get anyone intoxicated OR... People are SURE to get upset being handed a pint of foam! It should have been... Depending on your geographical point of reference a pint of foam won't get anyone pissed, OR... People are sure to be pissed being handed a pint of foam. Brian | ||
| Ian Giffin (Admin)
Rating: N/A |
Had to get that in, Brian? Last poke at Ian? Don't care that some prefer "intoxicated" and "upset"? Well, now you're really urinating me off. Ian www.busnut.com | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Give 'em an inch and they winnie on ya'. | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary)
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As much as I'd like to partake in the scatological semantics, I'd really like to see pics of Henry's 10-wheeler. Whaddyasay Henry, you have any posted out here? Gary | ||
| BrianMCI Rating: N/A |
Did I have to get that in? I guess I did, If only because I REALLY enjoyed the word play when I wrote it... but also, because it tied the whole post together. The idea of people looking at the same thing differently. Crude it may be, I didn't really think it vulgar. It wasn't a poke at you Ian Brian | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Oh-ooooh, Brian... You've gone and urinated him off! Not to worry. If he was peed, he'd have deleted your post or posted your email address and personal phone number on some porno sites. ^%^%$#.... there goes the damned phone again...hold on... | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj)
Rating: N/A |
I will try to borrow/beg/liberate/purchase an electronic camera to pic away pics of the "Banana Boat", (her name!) then I will ask someone to help me post 'em since I am thinkum dinkum illeterate. CROWNS FOREVER!!  | ||
| Ian Giffin (Admin)
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Brian, Ease up there dude! I was joking... much like this thread has become... Like JTNG said, if I was urinated, I'd'a clicked the delete button, not to worry. (All three of these related threads will be deleted eventually, because nothing this insane is worth keeping in a virtual, searchable vault. But I'll do that in a few weeks when this thread makes it way down the list!) Ian www.busnut.com | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Hey Henry.. Use a regular camera; get the pix developed and printed; take the prints to Walmart; a drug store of your choice; Target, or anyplace that has a sign that they do digital prints. Put the print in their scanner and a disc in their machine, follow their instructions and wal-lah.. you got yer digitized pictures to use on email, or web. Or... when you get the pix developed, get a digital disc made with it. It's about $6 extra. It's cheaper to do the print to disc, tho. | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A |
I just bought a 20.00 digital camera at WAL-MART...came with a c.d. to install & cord...does a pretty good job...it's an ARGUS | ||
| Ian Giffin (Admin)
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Hi Henry, If you can get your pictures onto a photo disk and email a couple of good ones to me, I'll put them up here. Ian www.busnut.com | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
There ya' go, Henry. Borrow Two Dog's. | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary)
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TD, does the camera have a removable memory module, or do you have to use the cable? Gary | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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just plug the camera into the cord that stays attached to the p.c. for 20.00 I'm tickeled feceless | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
No memory card... hmm... Ok, upload to the computer, write the jpgs to disk and bring the disc to Walmart, etc.. Print 'em out.. No biggie and cheap as hell! You can pick up a usb memory device and write to that, then bring that in and plug it in for printing.. Ain't life grand? | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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WHAT???...whew... I just go take 19 pictures...in 90 seconds I can send them....that's what he's trying to do...why make it so complecated... | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj)
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TWO DOGS..do you have anything else I can borrow? He he he. Ian and John, thank you very much. I did find an unused throw-a-way 35 mm camera in my trunk. When the sun next shines up here in SW Oregon, I will pic away. Thank you all. | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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Henry...got a couple of brunetts that I culled.. one talks too much............. take a look at those pictures I@N posted for me on 'what color tanks'...those were made with my little 20.00 wal-mart digital... |