| Author | Message | ||
| L. R. Taft (Larryk2lt)
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HBS... Has anyone tried using a towed as a pusher for the long mountain climbs and better takeoff in traffic? My idea would be to flat tow a Chevy Astro Van as I need a smaller vehicle for the side trips and the narrow roads up to the broadcast station transmitters. I need to look into the controls of doing this with an automatic and a few simple actuators for shifting into drive, brakes and throttle. Railroad locomotives do this all the time. I ask because I would like to get a 4106 with a V730 to replace the wornout (155,000 miles) Itasca 454 that has served faithfully for several years but is at the end of its road life. As I said, a Hair Brained Scheme.... Larry (still Itasca 454) | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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just leave the little woman back in the toad....  | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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so...you think you are going to leave it in neutral & the trans. will be fine ?...WRONG | ||
| Johnny Rating: N/A |
It will if it's a manual shift. And 155,000 miles? That 454 is just getting broken in! | ||
| R.J.(Bob) Evans (Bobofthenorth)
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Several years ago we stopped at a State Park south of San Franscisco and got talking to a couple from the midwest who were travelling with a large gas Class A with a 454 pulling a Ford Aerostar. Their fuel filter had started to plug up somewhere north of San Franscisco. For some reason they knew where there was a GM garage south of the bridge so they kept on but put the wife in the Aerostar to help push. Buddy said he told his wife to push hard enough to bring the heat gauge up off the pin and then back off a bit. They made it over the bridge to whatever GM garage they were headed for. | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary)
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"And 155,000 miles? That 454 is just getting broken in!" Is this sarcasm? gary | ||
| Marc Bourget Rating: N/A |
Depends on who built it and how hard she's been run/put away wet! Well, they can still be running pretty good at that mileage but theys broke in by then, fer shure! 3d and best engine, now about a 483 cu in. with a New Venture 4500 5 sp tranny! Onward and Upward | ||
| L. R. Taft (Larryk2lt)
Rating: N/A |
I ment "at the end of its road life". I'm hearing big end rumbles from the engine, the TH400 slips in first gear when its cold, a couple of the universals are dry and the center bearing is too, the back end of the bedroom sags a bit because the dummies mounted the Onan at the back corner with a 9 foot overhang, it eats front suspension and steering parts, springs and shocks, tires, etc. The rear springs need to be re-arched but the shackles can't be removed without taking out the blackwater tank. The caulking is all dried out, cracked windshield, door gasket half gone, brake master cylinder has a hydraulic leak, (its a power steering pump booster) It rides like a buckboard even with new Bilsteins, and gets 7 mpg day in, day out. The only time it failed on the road was when the coil died in the little wide spot of Hasse, TX. on a late Saturday afternoon. I walked past the liquor store to the quickstop and asked about possible help. The little old lady called the local garage and the mechanic pulled the distributor out of a junk truck in the back yard, stuck it in my 454, set the timing by ear, charged me $40 and wished us well. BUT, that was 60,000 miles ago and too many things need repair/replace now to think that I can fix it for $40. Or $4,000. Maybe $10,000 would do so the decision is to get a bus, an OLD bus, with hopefully good running gear, and put the money into making it what we need. Hence, the 4106/8V71N/V730 and a toad to go where the bus can't or won't. I figured the toad/push would be a good laugh but the more thought I put into it the more sense it makes. The stock 4106 should last well past my life time and the toad/push could help get over the mountains with out blocking traffic for a long time. City takeoffs could also be a big improvement. Why spend $15,000++ on a bigger engine/trannie for the few times the extra HP is needed when the toad already has the extra ponies in it and is conviently located just behind the bus. More ideas??? Lets hear (see) them! Larry | ||
| Marc Bourget Rating: N/A |
Well, cool, but don't expect to get by with a standard hitch that's intended only for coasting loads (or less) during coach braking manuvers! Onward and Upward Marc Bourget | ||
| Johnny Rating: N/A |
""And 155,000 miles? That 454 is just getting broken in!" Is this sarcasm?" Uhh, no. 388,000 miles on the 454-powered GMC tow truck at work. The original engine went 295,000 before being replaced due to holding no oil pressure. Try a shot of K&W Trans X for that TH400. U-joints? Easy fix & about $20-30 each at NAPA. Grease guns are about $15 at Wal-Mart. Seriously, you have not mentioned anything really major except the windshield. Other than that, you probably have a weekend's work. PS--The booster leak is probably where the hi-pressure hose from the PS ppump goes into the booster. On my wife's Blazer, it was the hose, which ran I think $20 at a hydraulic place. Even if yours is an oddball, a shop like that can make whatever you need, for not too much cash. | ||
| Doug Wotring
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Wolf's Bus Lines in PA has a Dodge Diesel Service truck that they use to recover broken coaches. they mad a bracket to attach the truck to the rear bumper mounts. they have a air throttle on the truck and run the lines into the bus with a throttle on a block. A compressor on the truck keeps the air up...... basically it is like a slave train locomotive..... for power...while bus brakes do the stopping works well | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary)
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Just wondering. All the BBGM mills I've seen were gasping for life at 150K, you must take good care of them. Gary | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat)
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Yet another reasonably unanswered topic... well, i'll throw in my two cents.. The answer is yes and no. There's a very nice busnut, who calls himself Mr. Sharkey. He has a Crown. He's also got a very detailed webpage that describes his toad turned-pusher setup although it's pushing an electric car, not his bus. But he gives all the details on how it's done, and it's quite sucessful. Here's the page: http://www.mrsharkey.com/pusher.htm Beyond that, a Chevy astro van pushing a bus? I think not. I own an astro van and it's a device that is hard pressed just pushing itself! If I tow a 1500 pound trailer with it (which I have) it overheats and never shifts into the final gear, it grunts and growls and barely makes it past 60mph. Astros are basically "on the edge" as far as power (I'm talking about the vortex V6 here). As far as adding enough power to bump themselves over a hill, yeah that would work, but they certainly wouldn't be able to add any extra power. That said, how you'd decouple the tranny while it was "not" being a powered toad is an entirely different problem. I suppose you could let it idle for the whole trip which "may" keep the tranny lubricated and not allow itself to blow up, but otherwise I think you'd have to design a remotely actuated driveshaft decoupler which won't be an easy task... I@N: I just updated by browser, which apparently forgot what my password is, and I've long forgotten it because due to some glitch a year or so ago when you gave me a new one that never seemed to work, and my original one stopped...so to post I've been relying on whatever my computer seemed to think it was, and it's worked. Today I tried to post the above using my regular "been here a lot longer than the gearhead guy" name that I always use, Gary Stadler, and I got this: "ERROR: The name you entered too closely resembles the username or full name of a registered user or moderator on this board. As an unregistered user, you must either obtain an account of your own, or otherwise enter a different name." So I typed in boogiethecat instead of my name and the board recognized me well enough to do a message preview, but it still won't allow me to do the final post, giving that same error. I had to go back to my old browser to post this. Since I've always been myself, and I seriously doubt that I resemble anyone on this board EVEN if seen driving my landbarge around the roads, do you think you could somehow fix this for me? Probably emailing me what my password is would work...??? Gary Stadler | ||
| Linda 4104 Rating: N/A |
This info might be pertinent to the original question. We have a GM-4104 (updated with 8V71, auto trans and Jake brake) and we tow a Toyota Tundra pickup 4WD equipped with a driveshaft disconnect. This past summer we did use the Tundra to "push" on some mountain climbs and we also used it to push the bus to a safer location when we broke down on the highway with transmission problems. We just reconnected the driveshaft and didn't try to go too fast or too far. Personally, I would not be in favor of doing this just for "better takeoff in traffic." | ||
| Rodger in WA Rating: N/A |
If all other challenges can be safely met, I doubt the transmission in the Astro would last long if used frequently as a bus pusher. | ||
| Ed Jewett (Kristinsgrandpa)
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If you want a little more muscle get a turbo aftercooled and/or add propane injection. Some of the local truckers are running the propane injection and like it. HTH Ed | ||
| JJJ
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"Back in the day" I traveled with some friends in an old school bus they'd just converted. We were towing an old chevy. The bus was overheating, so we turned on the chevy and shifted it into drive (automatic). This completely took care of the overheating problem. I do suspect that this did compromise the stopping ability a bit...would not want to do this on wet pavement. JJJ | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
How about a power winch/lift assembly mounted to the rear of the bus, where you can carry the van and leave it running in gear, and just set it to the ground when you need the extra "push". (my head hurts) | ||
| Johnny Rating: N/A |
Gary: Your Astro has mechanical problems. They're rated to tow 5500lbs (RWD--AWD is 5000), & I've driven several, none of which struggled in the slightest with a full load of gear or 6 people & 2 wheelchairs. The pre-Vortecs weren't as strong (though you can do lots worse than a TBI 4.3 V6), but were OK--the Vortecs are smooth, powerful, durable engines. And yes, our trucks see regular maintainence. However, they also see some of the most brutal use around, short of something like a mail carrier: city driving, lots of idling, running heavy (the truck is ~8500-9000lbs EMPTY, tagged for 16,500lbs), & running 70MPH on the highway with 3.90 gears & a TH400. It's done this since 1987--and was, in fact, one of the first (maybe THE first) TBI 454s in New England (built in September, 1986). | ||
| L. R. Taft (Larryk2lt)
Rating: N/A |
JTNG, Take two asprin and call me in the morning.... Thats "Plan C" on the HBS list. Actually C is to use a house trailer axle and air bag springs to lift the Astro wheels off the ground and pull the trailer wheels up when using the toad around town. Same idea as the small driveway paving rollers are towed around. Pushers, I figured it had already been done. I'd like to see the methods of control and how the stability of the rig is at speed. Roger, I think you're right, maybe a C30 with a 454/TH400 would be a better choice. That way I can carry enough spare parts/tools to keep the contraption running. GS, I know rthe Astro will over heat in stock form. ALL GM vehicles do without a major increase in radiator capacity. I put a 350 radiator in the front of the Itasca just behind the grill piped in parallel with the original radiator and can now climb the Grapevine on a hot August day with the AC on and the loud pedal mashed to the floor. Thats part of the reason the 454 is tired at 155,000. It runs 3100 RPM at 65 MPH on the flat with 10-12 inches of vacuum so it is working hard just to push the Itasca through the air. Larry | ||
| Johnny Rating: N/A |
Funny, but that sort of use didn't really bother the Jimmy at work. |