| Author | Message | ||
| Dave Martin
Rating: N/A |
I have a "sticks & staples" MH and I'm shopping for a bus converstion now. What would a good choise for powerplants be and what mileage do they get. A stick shift if just fine.(it will keep the other half from wanting to drive) Dave | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A |
I'd say 85% of the engines in buses are detroit diesel two stroke... | ||
| mel 4104 Rating: N/A |
as 2D says most of the buses are powered by DD>s however they come in a great range of HP some are right hand rotation others are left and they all work great. also you will want to look at length, how tall you are for head room, and how wide[96in. or 102 in.] coach or trannsit all can be converted to great motorhomes. take a look at the listings here on this board that Ian has listed for sale and you can find some great deals there that you could not put together for the price they are asking | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A |
a 4104 has a 6 cyl. engine ...35 foot bus ..about 11 or 12 mpg a 4106 has a 8 cyl engine...about 8 to 10 mpg a 4905 gets about 8 to 9 mpg & is 40 foot long these are highway buses...you can buy a city bus cheaper...but top speed is usualy 55..and you have no bays for tanks & storage... | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Rating: N/A |
Two Dogs, I didn't think that those 4104s got over 10 mpg, even if they are stick shift. Do you know of some that do? Tom Caffrey PD4104-2576 Suncatcher | ||
| Doug Wotring
Rating: N/A |
I get anywhere from 8-12 running against the gov | ||
| mel 4104 Rating: N/A |
Tom, @D is talking about the Canadian gallon and you are thinking about the US gallon. and yes my 4104 when i leave Canada i get 10.8 mpg however when i fuel up in the US i only get 9.6 hope this helps | ||
| Doug Wotring
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Mel, I have gotten 11.6mpg (US) towing my fullsize king cab pickup | ||
| Ron Rutledge
Rating: N/A |
2-Dog's...I will Belive Your Post 1-36' Crown w/DD671...9-10 mpg 1-36' Crown w/Cummins Big Cam 14mpg This is the same bus...My Real Super Coach...power can be of sum value$$ Ron R. "Thunder Coach" "1981 Crown" | ||
| John Rigbyj
Rating: N/A |
Ron, Which bus has the most power? John | ||
| Don/TX
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Lets not forget the guy that claims he gets 38 miles per gallon in his bus, he claims the 3 is in reverse, the 8 is going forward. | ||
| neomax Rating: N/A |
I don't think anyone can accurately guage mileage based on 1 tank of fuel and a lot of people tend to do just that. W/ my MUI 6v92 I got anywhere from 4.9 to 8.5 per tank, but over 2-3k it averaged 6.3, consistently. W/ my DDEC 8v92 (475hp setup) I run 6.5 to 7.4 per tank and average out @ 6.8 over 2-3k mi. 2 mileage killers with both: speed and wind. | ||
| bruce king
Rating: N/A |
I'm skeptical about these mileage figures. Over 18,000 miles driving, my mci-9 with 8v71 gets 5.1 miles per gallon. Most of that mileage includes mountains or the continental divide, which pulls down the average somewhat, and I was towing something (cherokee or full sized pickup) When folks talk about 10mpg with an 8v71 bus, I just can't figure that mine is half as efficient. Bruce | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj)
Rating: N/A |
1974 Crown Super Coach 10-wheeler with a 250 Big Cam Cummins...12.5 mpg at 60 mph at 1590 rpm in 10th gear on the flat and level and NO wind. Honest! CROWNS FOREVER!! | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Rating: N/A |
Bruce K -- Your coach isn't half as efficient. . . it's just bigger and weighs a lot more. The 4106 with the 8V71/4-spd stick is a lightweight, weighing around 25K, and also has a smaller frontal area, since it's not as tall. Weight, aerodynamics and speed have a LOT to do with overall mileage, as well as driving conditions, altitude, etc., which you duly noted. Don/TX -- Now THAT guy's got the right idea!!  Dave M -- You've got a LOT of homework to do before you make a coach decision. Using the "Search" function of this BBS will help you tremendously, so spend some time with that. Dont' forget to also check out the "Buses For Sale" section on the board also, some great buys to be had! But to answer your initial question, here are the generic basics for "highway" model coaches: ~ Most built up until 1960 used the Detroit 6-71 engine producting around 230 hp mated to a 4-spd manual gearbox. ~ From 1961 until the early 1980s, nearly every coach on the road ran the venerable Detroit 8V71. Often called a "318", a holdover from the trucking industry's nickname for it's power rating in their configuration. However, in bus applications it typically produced 275 hp and was still bolted to a 4-spd stick. In the middle/late 70's, many fleet owners started ordering Allison automatics, either the 4-spd HT-740 or the 5-spd HT-754CR. ~ In the early '80's, the 6V92 Detroit began making it's appearance, offering similar power with promises of increased fuel economy, which, in reality, were small, if any. Towards the end of the decade, the HP race was on, and the 8V92 began to show up in coaches, usually configured at 400 hp, but available up to 500. By the mid-'90s, it was virtually impossible to find manual transmissions anymore in a highway coach. ~ The early '90s saw the introduction of the Series 60 Detroit in the bus industry, and that seems to be the engine of choice currently. Producing anywhere from 400 - 500 hp, they're usually hooked to a B500 World automatic transmission. ~ Here and there, you'll find a coach equipped with a Cummins or a CAT engine, but Detroit seems to dominate the field. ~ Be aware that buses with a "T-drive" powertrain layout use RH rotating engines, whereas those utilizing a "V" or "angle-drive" powertrain are usually LH rotation. ********** For "transit" buses, the situation is a little different. Because they are mostly used for low-speed operation within city limits, the Detroit 6-cylinder engine has been the norm, whether it's a 71 or 92 series, or the newer 4-cyl Series 50s. You can find units with the 8V71, but they're not as common. HP settings run from 230 - 275, maybe 300 for an S-50. Be aware that because of gearing, transits often are hard-pressed to top 60 mph, whereas a highway coach will cruise all day easily at 70-75. Finally, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a stick-shift coach - Two Dogs wouldn't have it any other way - but the resale market dictates automatics. Even if you, yourself, say you'll never sell the coach, the time will eventually come when that has to take place, and only then will the stick become burdensome. HTH, RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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LOVE stick shift...look at all the posts on this board...half are whineing about the automatic won't work...& they are VERY expencive to work on | ||
| Don/TX
Rating: N/A |
Except me Two Dogs. As RJ indicated, I have been trying to sell a bus for the widow of a friend of mine who died. It is one hell of a deal, but nobody wants it, because it has a stick shift! Dozens have turned it down flat as soon as they hear it has no automatic. As it is a 4104, that is not easy to fix. | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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I'd love it !! | ||
| Don/TX
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Alright Two Dogs! Send me a cashiers check for the bus and fuel, I will drive it to Amarillo just as soon as it stops snowing over there in Hells Half Acre! By the way, weather down here is simply beautiful!! | ||
| Mike (Busone)
Rating: N/A |
Anybody have a bus with a Cat 3208 if so what kind of MPG do you get? | ||
| Mike (Busone)
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Anybody have a bus with a Cat 3208 or 3116 if so what kind of MPG do you get? Oops looks like I ended up with a double post. Sorry | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary)
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My 3208Ta gets around 9, heavy towing, but I have insane (5.57) low gears. I expect about 11 after I make the ratio change. Gary | ||
| John Rigbyj
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I talked to a guy the other day, who knows his engines and trannies, and knows were to go and what things should cost. He had his allison redone $8000.00. I will stay with my stick shift. John | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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Don...tell me about this widow....naaa...just kidding,is the 4104 down there ??...that would be a nice bus for somebody... | ||
| Don/TX
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Hey, might fix you right up. She loves busing, pretty, well built, wealthy, full of life, did I mention wealthy, everything you need. Bus is in Kansas though. | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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HMMMMMMMMMM...widow down there ??? | ||
| Don/TX
Rating: N/A |
Nope, in Kansas with the bus. Might come down for a visit later though. | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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sounds great...tell her I like White shoulders perfume.........wish somebody would help me close up the ranch...this cold is killing me...all the walking,close the fence,air all tires,turn off elec.....maybe it will warm up in a few days........... | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary)
Rating: N/A |
"I talked to a guy the other day, who knows his engines and trannies, and knows were to go and what things should cost. He had his allison redone $8000.00. I will stay with my stick shift. " Not so sure about that one, I just had mine redone for four grand OTD, by one of the best shops in the country. an Allison reman was only $5,500. $8K is pretty high. Gary | ||
| Gillig-Dan Rating: N/A |
My Cat 3208 naturally aspirated in a '70 Gillig 636D gets about 10 mpg. When I'm towing my car it drops to 9 or 8. I have a Spicer 5-speed manual. Gillig-Dan | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A |
Tom...there are some examples for you...my Eagle(27,000) gets 9 mpg at 60 ,& 8 mpg at 70 | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Rating: N/A |
Two Dogs, sounds like you've got that Eagle in pretty good shape. Thanks for the numbers. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher | ||
| Hugh Bavaro (Hbavaro)
Rating: N/A |
Can you replace a 4 speed tranny in a 1953 GMC bus with the Alison? Is there enough room or must serious modifications (and expense) be considered? | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Rating: N/A |
Hugh - To answer your question, I had to look at your profile to see that you've got a 4104. Wasn't sure which model you had, based on your initial post. . . Anyway, yes, you can put an Allison automatic in your coach, BUT: * It has to be either a VS2-8 or a V-730, the models designed for the angle-drive. Or, if you really want to have "fun", one of the newer transit powertrains with a 4-stroke electronically-controlled motor and a ZF or Voith transmission. * The Allison will not bolt right in. There's room, but you have to modify the bulkhead by cutting it out and reinforcing it. * With the 6-71, if you think your coach is slow now, it will be worse with the automatic. * Most '04 owners who install an automatic also upgrade the powertrain, usually to a 6V92TA with the V-730. This takes you from 238 hp to 350 (with a mechanical injector engine). * The above powertrain swap also requires changing the rear axle to one from a 4106 or later, as the ring/pinion are off-set differently than your '04s. * The cooling system will also have to be addressed, as a 92/auto combo puts out more heat than the 6-71/stick. * Any of the above will end up costing you somewhere between $15-$20K. * Your fuel mileage will also suffer, dropping from around 10 to the 7 mpg range. * Your top speed will remain just about the same as it is right now, you might gain 5 mph at most, unless you go to tall 24.5 tires. * Everything's a compromise. . . you get to choose! HTH, RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| Marc Bourget Rating: N/A |
Currently running on the RTS Yahoo Forum is a thread about reprogramming a DDEC engine, (formerly thought impermissible)to higher HP ratings once the engine is installed in a non-commercial application - in other words, even a RTS if it's been re-registered as a RV or Motorhome. This would allow the installation of a 731. There is a nice synchro'd 5 sp stick angle drive tranny available if someone is interested. Onward and Upward Marc Bourget | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Rating: N/A |
Marc, I'm kind of curious about that transmission. Could you tell me what it belongs to? Thanks. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher |