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Message |
Bob Oakman (Bobsbus)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 2:37 pm: | |
When I started out my roof-raising I was clueless and found very little detailed info about it. With a little clue about physics and metal work, a person can get it done without help, but I just figured I'd share some of the mistakes I made while raising the roof on my Eagle. Perhaps some do-it-yourselfers will benefit from the info... I probably don't have the best solutions. Anyone's input is welcome. I'm not a great communicator and may have a hard time explaining.
-We came up with great rigging to lift it and figured out where to cut, but were surprised by one event after it was cut. I found out too late that the Eagle factory pre-heated the skin before riveting it on the roof. Aluminum expands and contracts a lot. It was a cold fall the day we did the job. When all the struts were cut, the tight, contracted skin pulled the roof up on the ends, bowing it so that the middle struts came down on the new strut extensions, but the ends were elevated about 3 inches. I had to use a chain hoist to pull it down. It required so much pressure that the struts I had the hoists hooked on actually bent. I had to reinforce them to get the job done.
Suggested solution: If you don't want to hire a small army of folks, armed with propane torches to heat the skin, do the job outside on a real hot and sunny day.
-Applying the new side-skin was a tedious job and a real learning experience. The biggest mistake I made is as follows... The fiberglass skin, a bit more than 1/8" thick, goes under the roof skin. Pop a couple rivets on the vertical part of the roof and stuff the skin under. Sounds easy enough, but in our haste we didn't think ahead about what would happen when we re-riveted the roof skin. Under that skin, directly above the fiberglass side-skin, is a void the depth of the fiberglass skin thickness. The new rivets in that area pulled the roof skin in, causing terrible looking dents right above every strut.
Suggested solution: Grind the top of the fiberglass skin to a point to create a gradual curve into the original roof edge radius.
Our "spilt-milk" solution: The wife wants to put marker lights on top of every dent. I am considering it, but since you can get busted for burned out markers, that's a lot of lights and the law of averages may get us. It's also a lot of holes to drill in the roof, increasing the chances of water finding its way in. I am thinking of just living with the dents. |
Mike (Busone)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 4:57 pm: | |
One thought on the marker lights, if you use LED lights they probably will last longer than the bus. I think they are rated for something crazy like 100,000 hours. |
david anderson (Davidanderson)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 6:08 pm: | |
Bob, Bob, Bob,
You must come here and ask, ask, ask. Raising the roof on my Eagle 10 was one of the easier parts of my conversion. I did it like the article from Coach Conversion Central showed to do. It only took 1/2 day to raise my roof, but it took almost 2 days to weld it back together. The article was written by Gene Lewis. The link is below:
http://users.cwnet.com/~thall/gene_lewis.htm
I too used fiberglass siding, but unlike you I slid the siding up above the rivet line, so the rivets would draw down the roof skin and the siding together. No wrinkles or waves.
I know your finished with that portion, but if you need any help in the future, please post your inquiries here. You can click on my name in the header of this message to see my profile and picture of my finished coach.
Below is a good link to all kinds of bus conversion stuff. I used it a lot.
http://www.n6ecv.net/bus.htm
Good Luck,
David Anderson |
Arthur J Griffith
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 6:09 pm: | |
BOB:
Sorry to hear you had so much trouble. I had read Dave Galeys book the Bus Converters Bible.
He had a great system in there where he used modified bumper jacks to raise the roof. It surprised me how easy it was to raise the roof on my Eagle. The wife and I raised it in no time flat. For the panels on the windows we used 18ga
steel as Dave gailey suggest. It worked real well. Just wanted to put this info out there for
anyone who is going to start there roof raise. |
Bob Oakman (Bobsbus)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 6:34 pm: | |
It wasn't that much trouble, except for the things mentioned above. We did raising part in a day if you don't count the preparation, which took a couple days..
Nice bus David! I think I slid the skin too far under. The bottom row of rivets penetrated both skins. The next row ended up just above where the fiberglass skin ended. Those are the ones that made the dents.
I have some photos of the process up here for those interested. No close-ups of the rivets, but the raising is pictured.
I only wish I would have found this site before we started. Dave's book was great, but some details are vague and I couldn't find anyone that could answer my questions. We just kinda' made it up as we went along.
LED markers.... Hmmmmm. Good idea. |
Jim-Bob (Pd41044039)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 11:34 am: | |
Bob, the Eagle roof pre-tension might not have been on purpose. Most later Eagles were built in Brownsville, TX. If your bus was constructed between March to November you might have free heat-stretching! Temps over 105 are common inside open buildings in the South.
Shouldn't this cause Prevosts to be wrinkly in Summer???
Jim-Bob |
Arthur J Griffith
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 11:39 am: | |
Bob:
The pictures on your bus looks great. You are really moving along. I and others would be very interested in ThermalCoat that you used before youd insulation. Why, what you used after, and
where you bought it. Thanks for a response.
ARTHUR |
Bob Oakman (Bobsbus)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 1:05 pm: | |
Jimbob, My Eagle was built in Brownsville. you may be correct.
I got the insulation from"Northern Insulation Inc." in Ely Minnesota. I originally intended to have the curved parts sprayed in with the urethane stuff, but changed my mind because it is so flamable. Sorry, but I don't remember the exact price-per-sheet of the insulation. The guy gave me an $1800.00 quote to instal everything, including the spray-in, but I ended up installing it myself at considerable savings. He supplied the insulation. It was cheaper than Home Depot.
-Floor - 1.5 inch "Thermex" - 9.322 r-value.
-Over Engine - Fire proof, 1.5" Mineral Fiber, supported by galvanized sheet metal pans.
-Walls and ceiling - 1.5" FSK faced, yellow Styrofoam stuff - R-value better than the blue... 6.51.
Thermalcoat is here - $232.50 per 5 gallon bucket. I used 25 gallons. I used a 2.3 HP, 34 GPM airless sprayer. It didn't survive the job. A friend came by with a mega, gas engine driven sprayer that was about the size of a 30 kw gen set. That got the job done. The stuff is barely thicker than a latex paint, but the suspended ceramic beads in it settle into every channel, nook and cranny in the sprayer mechanism and form a barrier that will not wash out easily. It would plug the pump up about every 10 or 15 seconds of spraying.
Thermalcoat has a surprising r-value for something the thickness of a dime. When the sun beats down on my bus, I can place my hand on the inside of the new caps (not insulated yet) and it feels relatively cool.
Also, before I put the 3/4" plywood on the walls, I put a layer of regular tar paper. Others use higher-tech stuff, but Tom Hall told me of a friend that used tar paper and it worked very well. I tried it and I worked great, as far as I can tell. A lot cheaper too. |
John Rigbyj
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 7:46 am: | |
Bob,
Did you use thermal coat on the outside roof also?
If so how did it look after installation, rough or smooth looking or did it look like a coat of paint? I have purchased 2each 5 gallon drums for the roof of my 4104, commited anyway, but wonderd how it looked.
Thanks
John |
Bob Oakman (Bobsbus)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 4:01 pm: | |
I didn't put it on the outside. Just inside. It is very hard to apply evenly and runs easily, so I wouldn't want to try it anywhere on the outside, except the roof... Unless you mean the outside of the inside skin. Didn't do that either. :-) I just covered the entire inside of the bus, before insulation, so no Thermalcoat will be visible. Many thin coats would look better than a few thick coats, if it is going to be visible. I was in a mad hurry when I did it, so we laid it on thick and fast and had some runs.
Note: Thermalcoad would not stick to the fresh fiberglassing. If you have any, be sure it is roughed up.
Since I chose to paint my bus black, the roof, on the outside, is painted silver in an attempt to try and deflect some of the sun's heat. People did some laughing when I told them we wanted black, but it is the only color my wife and I could agree on. Eventually I'll have flames running about half way back. Then I'll have a lot less black surface to sponge up heat. |
Bob Oakman (Bobsbus)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 3:44 pm: | |
I just added more photos. There are now 113 pictures of destruction and construction on our old Eagle. I didn't hold back the photos of stupid mistakes this time and focused more on the roof-raising part. The text in the captions is limited to only a few words. I hope to change that soon.
CLICK |
Russell Barnes (Neoruss)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 5:19 pm: | |
Great slide show Bob, makes me want to rush home and get the grinder out on mine. Oh well maybe this weekend. At least we'll be back in the 50's over the weekend and working here in middle TN beats the stuffing out of MN. |
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