| Author |
Message |
Dave Spurgeon
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 12:32 pm: | |
Can a Series 60 be put in an MC8?
If so, what are the main considerations I should be aware of, like radiator changes and coupling the "60" to a 740 Allison tranny.
Is it worth it to attempt this upgrade? I would appreciate any input. Thanks. |
jimmci9 #2
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 1:42 pm: | |
there's a mc8 in lake jackson texas.... ray is planning on a series 60 with an allison ht740....hopefully he'll se this post.. email me offline and i'll send you his contact.... jimcat2@webtv.net |
Marc Bourget
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 6:16 pm: | |
M-11 being smaller, especially shorter, would be an easier fit!
Marc Bourget |
Robert Wood (Bobwoodsocal)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 6:38 pm: | |
Hi Dave, I'm am no expert, but I have read on here that the 60 series peaks at a different RPM range, might not be too good with the 740, they are usually used with overdrive trannies. Bob |
Mci102
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 7:25 pm: | |
Greyhound has updated mci12's(same as 9)with series 60 engines. They have used the existing 740 trans without problems. They are able to push the drive train closer to the rearend because they drive the compressor and alternater on the front of the series 60 engine. Ray Jensen |
Marc Bourget
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 7:30 pm: | |
Robt, It's not so much the tranny as the rear end ratio. Although an overdrive would allow a lower rear end ratio (higher numerical ratio) for better startability (maybe not an issue with a slush box)
Bob Belter dropped to something like a 3.23 or so with his RTO1010.
FWIW
Marc |
Jim H
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 8:04 pm: | |
It would really be better to find a 741 transmission. It is basicly the same as the 740 but has electronic controls that interface well with the 60 series ecu. A 3:36 rear gear is good also. |
Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 8:58 pm: | |
Hello.
To clarify, Greyhound has some MC12 with Series 50 engines, the four cylinder little brother to the Series 60, and they are hooked up to an Allison World transmission, probably a B400.
Series 50 are good for 315 HP, and the B400 is a 5 speed with overdrive.
The gains to be made with a DD four stroke are lost without a way to get the revs down. They make their power and good efficiency down in the revs, not up at the red line.
I've fooled around with the Series 60 and B500 combination a little. In round numbers, it pulls steady in 5th at 1500, slows down if you use 4th at 1900. No torque up there.
Watch for a good transit take-out at a junk yard near you in a few short years.
FYI, bolt in 6V92TA DDEC and B400 are hitting there now. |
Dave Spurgeon
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 9:50 pm: | |
I appreciate the responses. No one mentioned the radiator issue. What would I have to do to cool the Series 60 in my MC8.
By the way,I would be willing to find a better trans(741?) and/or make necessary gear ratio changes.
Thanks again in advance. |
Marc Bourget
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 10:41 pm: | |
The existing MCI=8 radiator capacity is enough for the S-60 as the 8V92 has more heat rejection. A single radiator to the side ala Eagle, GMC and others might be a better use of space!
Marc |
Ray Lala (Rayshound)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 11:00 pm: | |
Dave, I'm doing as we speak what you are asking. With a lot of help from the board I feel I've addressed all of the issues & concerns. I used the ht-740 and changed the stator for a different stall speed, the flywheel hub off of a 92 series, a digital modulator for the s-60 to talk to. I'm mounting the radiator on the side like an prevost. I've also extended the rear 17". On Benhard & walker coach web sites the s-60 was installed on one of the sites using the upper radiators and not extending the rear just shorting the drive shaft. I've also been communicating off line with a few different busnuts with good results in mci-9's (same as an eight)for install purposes. Ray |
Ray Lala (Rayshound)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 11:06 pm: | |
Dave, I had also replaced the gear ratio to a 2.69 for the rearend. I understand a b500 would allow you to keep same rearend with the overdrive give you the right ratio. The B500 was to pricey for me. For under $2000. I have a late model rearend. Ray |
neomax
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 21, 2004 - 11:24 am: | |
Just my point of view but if u are going to update to a better, or maybe even the best, engine w/a S60, then it follows that the tranny should be likewise and that calls for a "world" model, not an antiquated 700 series. True, they cost more, but they are more suited to the engine ure using. |
Dave Spurgeon
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 21, 2004 - 2:35 pm: | |
Again, I appreciate all the responses. The idea of mounting a side radiator sounds interesting. Which side and exactly where are you guys refering to? Also, Ray, I am trying to imagine how you extended the rear. My e-mail address is dcspurgeon@juno.com. I'd love to see any photos of any of the aforementioned modifications. |
Ray Lala (Rayshound)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 21, 2004 - 8:28 pm: | |
Dave, I extended and plated the rails with 3/16" steel. I cut the 1 1/2" box tubing & extended. I'm still trying to raise the roof & install the rear cap. I'm waiting for some mci-8 roof bows from a friend to complete the rear. I do have some pictures I will get back to you on the site address tyo view what I have, it's on a friends of mine site & I'll need to get the url tomorrow as I forgot it. Ray |
Marc Bourget
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 21, 2004 - 10:29 pm: | |
Ray,
In addition to plating the engine cradle truss with 3/16" steel, did you do anything to beef up the attachment of the cradle forward, near the tube for the tag axle bushings?
It may be that the S-60 more or less bolts up in the same places as the DD 2 stroke, would you comment on that as well? I'm interested in where the CG of the S-50 ends up after you've installed it.
Thanks. |
Ray Lala (Rayshound)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 22, 2004 - 11:48 am: | |
Marc, the ht-740 is in its original place. I'm using the same trans mounts to rail. The s-60 was longer by about 9" if memory serves me. I extended the rails and put in a cross member with a front mount out of the volvo truck. The radiator is not complete but the rad starts where the drivers side engine door is hinged and ends where the bumperette starts somewhere around 44". thats why I extended the rear as I didn't want to move the transmission & I wanted alittle more room in the interior. It made a big difference being able to walk over the engine where the old rads were. The new rad is under the floor line. The extension isn't long enough to cause any kind of drag problems. I do have a few pictures on my friends bbs, as I haven't started one yet. Try this bbs site. raylala.radmax.us |
Ray Lala (Rayshound)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 22, 2004 - 12:05 pm: | |
I had just looked at the web site I just referenced above. Not much there, I thought I had given Max more pictures than what is shown. Also the labeling is not what I would call useful. I had sent Tom hall some pictures of the 740-ht attached to the S-60 & The machining process of the rearend banjo housing & then the new metior center chunk installed. I will look tonight for the disc's when I get home from work tonight. sorry... Ray |